Dreads - The Continuing Saga...
- Thread starter BonzRus
- Start date
BonzRus
New Member
I talked with a gentleman at BJB who was very knowledgeable about the product and what he indicated is that they pre-tint it with a black graphite like powder material which is different from the liquid tint they sell. He said they combine it with a mixer that "cuts" it into the product. He too indicated that it is just not worth their while to do quantities less than 5 gallons minimum. 
As a result he offered some suggestions for us less financially gifted hobbiest like ahem...myself.. to pre mix up to but no more than 3% of the tint into a defined amount of part B, say 100 grams, taking into consideration how much total product you would be mixing for example, at 50:100 A to B that would yield 150 total grams of product so 3% of that would be about 4.5 grams of tint max! He said you could then mix any desired smaller quantities from the pre-tinted amount (he recommended not mixing less than 50 gramms of total product to get a consistent mixture) and then pouring only what you need. That would take some trial and error to determine but if it is free rise it would not be a major consequence to pour a little too much by mistake. He also indicated that you can achieve a softer foam by reducing the amount of part A and a stiffer foam by increasing it. He recommended not going more than about 15 points either way so a softer foam could be achieved by mixing 35:100. he said if you use too little an amount of part A the foam may remain tacky and if you use too much it will break down more easily. I will be trying to follow some of this advice to see how it works and report back on my findings as I go. I would love to get the pre-mixed stuff but just don't have the capacity for that at the moment. One other note...I was concerned about the shelf life of pre-mixed material and he said the shelf lif is not reduced if you pre-mix the tint into the part B and seal it up. The A component is the one that is critical and impacted negatively by moisture over time.
Steve
As a result he offered some suggestions for us less financially gifted hobbiest like ahem...myself.. to pre mix up to but no more than 3% of the tint into a defined amount of part B, say 100 grams, taking into consideration how much total product you would be mixing for example, at 50:100 A to B that would yield 150 total grams of product so 3% of that would be about 4.5 grams of tint max! He said you could then mix any desired smaller quantities from the pre-tinted amount (he recommended not mixing less than 50 gramms of total product to get a consistent mixture) and then pouring only what you need. That would take some trial and error to determine but if it is free rise it would not be a major consequence to pour a little too much by mistake. He also indicated that you can achieve a softer foam by reducing the amount of part A and a stiffer foam by increasing it. He recommended not going more than about 15 points either way so a softer foam could be achieved by mixing 35:100. he said if you use too little an amount of part A the foam may remain tacky and if you use too much it will break down more easily. I will be trying to follow some of this advice to see how it works and report back on my findings as I go. I would love to get the pre-mixed stuff but just don't have the capacity for that at the moment. One other note...I was concerned about the shelf life of pre-mixed material and he said the shelf lif is not reduced if you pre-mix the tint into the part B and seal it up. The A component is the one that is critical and impacted negatively by moisture over time.Steve
Eaglewood
Sr Member
Steve,BonzRus said:I talked with a gentleman at BJB who was very knowledgeable about the product and what he indicated is that they pre-tint it with a black graphite like powder material which is different from the liquid tint they sell. He said they combine it with a mixer that "cuts" it into the product. He too indicated that it is just not worth their while to do quantities less than 5 gallons minimum.
Steve
I know exactly what he is talking about. I just did some tests of my own and here are the results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CWFeC-zIGU
BonzRus
New Member
Good video Clay. It is good to see the results of your tests. Thanks for sharing. I have been too busy to experiment any more myself but I hope to get back to it by next week. I actually do have an air compressor by the way. Thanks for the offer. I just haven't used it to demold the three dreads I have made so far.
Steve
Steve
BonzRus
New Member
Just another quick video of my progress lately. I have changed the ratio from 50:100 to 35:100 A:B which produces a softer foam. Then I have started experimenting more with back pressure and as a result I am getting a better skin on the dreads and they are not as stiff as my initial attempts. I am slowly but surely reducing the amount of the larger cord I use and find they still release very easily with a little help from my air compressor so I want to try some with just a very short piece of the larger cord in the very end and leave the smaller cord off altogether. The cord does add some degree of stiffness so as I change the ratios for a softer foam I want to then increase back pressure and get a good flexible feel so I think removing the small cord will just about do it. I will very soon be working to make some new dread plugs using my trusty rigid foam and then painting them with PVA so I can coat them with my Smooth Cast 321 resin. I will give them less taper at the top which will move the center of gravity a little lower and try to get more of the original dread shape (less taper). Once I have htem done I will make some new silicone molds with PVC pipe with the intentions of ramping up production capabilities. When I spoke with a rep at BJB he indicated something that I may also try. He said that he has had experience with the color of the foam being affected by tin cure silicone molds. That it causes the color to come out more pale or faded as a result. He suggested using a platinum cure silicone instead so I may give that a try if I can afford it. I would just prefer not to have to dip or paint the dreads with Plasti Dip if I can help it but I can't justify the pre-tinted 5 gallon minimum for the TC-266. Once I am either satified with the reuslt I am seeing and I have my processes down I may take opportunity to play with other foams but right now I need to do all I can to maximize the potentioal of the TC-266 and if I never achieve the result I am looking for then I can try other foams as well but at least I will have learned what I can do with the TC-266 before moving on if need be. Here ias the vid....
http://youtu.be/345PURxs6SU
Steve
http://youtu.be/345PURxs6SU
Steve
AlphaTech686
Active Member
Hey Steve, my 2 cents is I will always spray mine with plasti-dip no matter how dark they come out just to give them a degree of uv protection. I am of course assuming the paint is giving some degree of protection.
AlphaTech686
Active Member
Ok, so I just googled the specs on Plasti-dip and it does provide a decent amount of UV protection and several other substance protections
BonzRus
New Member
Thanks Jeff. Do you have trouble with it clogging the spray nozzle and thus splattering as it sprays? It seems like it dries smooth enough but I am not liking how it goes on after the first use. Maybe I just need to get used to it. I was wondering about the dipping kind if anyone has used the stuff on dreads and if it is too thick or can be thinned down if need be? The spray can says to use Naptha or Mineral Spirits to clean the nozzle if it gets clogged. Ahhh...more to research I guess.
Steve
Steve
wonko
Member
Hey Steve, just wanted to jump in here and let you know that all my dread molds are platinum silicone, and the color still seemed off. I can understand painting them to get a dark black, and i have done so in the past. What I don't get is the dreads I have (Termokk's, and I have a few Bambooies now) are all the same color black all the way through (no paint or coating used). Also, I'm about 99% certain it's the Kryolan foam poured in a plaster mold. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward doing some plaster molds instead of spending the money on silicone. True, there will be 2 seam lines, but the seams in the dreads I have are so small you can't really see them unless you're looking for them. Another benefit is that you would get a true "skin" on them (like Termokk's and Booies) using the softer Kryolan foam.
Looks like you're having good luck, and I hope it continues to work out for you. Thanks for the updates!
Brian
Looks like you're having good luck, and I hope it continues to work out for you. Thanks for the updates!
Brian
BonzRus
New Member
Hey Brian, thanks for the input. Spraying or dipping using Rubber Dip S looks like a viable option to the cans. It is about $58 a gallon and can be run through a typical HVLP sprayer it looks like. It got me wondering as the foam in the mixing cup was as black as the ace of spades but if you are seeing a similar thing with the Platinum cure silicone then maybe I would just go ahead and apply the plasti dip product. I like the way it feels and it seems like it dries relatively quickly. I could easliy see hanging a bunch of dreads up and spraying them all at once I just want a more efficient way to put it on if I would have to. Still playing around with it all.
Steve
Steve
BonzRus
New Member
Thanks Clay...that is good to know. The tinted TC-266 foam is very dark but just not the black that can be achieved with the plasti-dip. Once I re-do my molds i will be able to do more with this as I have a repeatable process that gives fairly consistent results. I will look to investing in an HVLP sprayer and a gallon of the spray on Rubber Dip paint.
Steve
Brian, as I re-do my molds I am really struggling with which way to go with them myself and I have been seriously thinking about a hard resin split mold approach instead of the silicone or possibly a combination of the two. When I have my new plugs made I will have to make a decision I guess. What would you consider to be a typical "set of P1 dreads"? 40? 50? Two differnet sizes? Three different sizes? 1-1/4" or 1-1/8" for the largest diameter? Lengths for each size? There seems to be a lot of variation...wonko said:
Steve
Eaglewood
Sr Member
Steve
I made the mistake of making a few different length molds for the sectioned dreads. Big waste of material and time. You can cut the longer ones to the lenght you need or even just use less material and make them smaller. Dont go that route making different ones. Too expensive.
Im pretty happy with my molds but am going to refine them or do the machines ones eventually.
I made the mistake of making a few different length molds for the sectioned dreads. Big waste of material and time. You can cut the longer ones to the lenght you need or even just use less material and make them smaller. Dont go that route making different ones. Too expensive.
Im pretty happy with my molds but am going to refine them or do the machines ones eventually.
wonko
Member
I have a buddy that has resin copies out of the original movie molds Steve, and I'll try and get some more exact measurements. From what I've been able to find out, 4 sizes were made for the film. The largest one is 1" diameter at the top, and probably around 18" long. I can't say for sure, but I would guess the lengths are 18", 15", 12", and 6-8". The original dreads had the beads molded onto them, and they were sculpted, molded, and cast with the curve in them. As far as a set goes, I consider 50 a full set, but the number varies from maker to maker. The biggest problem I personally have with cutting down long dreads is it messes up the taper, and just doesn't look right to me, but that's my personal preference. I have 3 different sizes (20", 15", and 12") and can cut the 12" down smaller because the taper stays pretty consistent the whole way down. I am by NO means an expert on the subject, these are just a few things I've discovered in my quest for the perfect movie accurate dread. Hope this helps!
Brian
Brian
BonzRus
New Member
Thanks a bunch Brian! I could tell that the dread rings were molded onto the original dreads but I wasn't sure about the curve. I have pondered going with the curve but it would obviously change the way the mold was made. I am at a really good place to go with the curved dreads if I decided too since I am making new molds.... This conversation just sparked my curiosity for something new I can try this evening as an experiment. If it works then I will have my answer and I can make a decision. Oh man... the more I think about it this could be the ticket.wonko said:
Last night I made another rigid foam dread plug. This one is currently 21" long and about 1-1/8" in diameter at the top but I could easily cut it shorter to get it closer to the 1" dia x 18" dimmension you mentioned prior to molding it. I would like to know if you can find out some more exact dimmensions of the originals. What do you think of the shape? That is the main thing I am concerned about right now.Thanks,
Steve
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wonko
Member
The shape looks better Steve. As far as the end diameter, I see no reason 1-1/8" would be a problem. The only measurement I remember for sure is the diameter and length of the largest dread, and to be honest, 1/8" doesn't seem like much to worry about. As far as length, it is longer, but not so far out there that they look goofy (just my opinion). It's been my experience that most people are trying to get close to screen accurate with their suits, so I would think that close to screen accurate dreads would be what are in demand (again, just my opinion). If (and at this point it's a BIG if) I continue on with my dreads, this is the rout I will take. I left a message with my buddy concerning the dread sizes and asked him to call me back, so when I do I'll pass on the info I receive.
Brian
Brian
BonzRus
New Member
eaglewood said:Awww heck Steve-- who wants movie accurate anyway?????
I know Clay...to me movie accurate would mean molding in the beads and I don't want to do that so....how about movie close???
Brian, bear in mind that with the gradual taper these things have if I took 3" off the large end it would put the end diameter closer to 1"...wonko said:
Steve
AlphaTech686
Active Member
Hey Steve, I thought you might appreciate these photos. Back in the early 90's when I did my first suit I molded the dreads and beads in one piece as that was how it looked to be done in the movie. I would not do it again as it leaves no room for change and variety.
Here's the dreads 20 years later.
Here's the dreads 20 years later.
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