Dear J. J. Abrams
- Thread starter ringa
- Start date
I think it goes without saying that we are all pretty much huge Sci-Fi geeks. and its been documented ad nauseum what JJ Abrams did with Star Trek - the good and the bad. To be completely fair there was a lot to like about the new Star Trek, even if it has some REALLY annoying departures for us hard-core fans.
But the Star Wars gig is different form the Star Trek Gig. Trek was just about dead from the movie perspective the abomination that was Nemisis killed it (I can't bring myself to watch it a second time). The TV shows had petered out, although I do admit the 4th season of enterprise was pretty awesome but too many people had given up on it by then... the Star trek task was to reinvent and reinvigorate the franchise. The Star Wars Gig is to continue the franchise and grow it. With that in mind I really think that it will be more of what we are used to seeing from a film perspective. CG or real model.
To the topic of this thread - I hope real models are used (more) as well... they just look better. But I think that the real failing of the prequels FX was that everything was filmed in that high def digital camera... and everything looked a bit "off" even if it was live action... It may have been much easier to digitally edit the film that way but the look of the films suffered IMHO. Perhaps the cameras are better now and they can achieve that film grain look now... But attention to how it looks is a biggie. Please limit the lense flares
Breaking out soapbox here...
Also the advent of CGI being a primary FX method has led to sloppy film making IMO... Too often the director can get any wild ass thing that pops into his head on film... But the creative process of figuring out "how do I convey this plot point within the limitations I have" I think often lead to better story telling as the director had to really think and understand the story to get around the limitations of his technology. That extra thinking and planning paid off in STORY elements. For example one of the best scenes in Star Wars in terms of character development was the - HAN SHOT FIRST- scene with Greedo... In one brief scene we learned that Han Solo is a Bad-ass, with a deeper backstory then the dude who takes the lightsword guys to the big planet killing moon. That entire scene was a fabrication since Lucas could not get a satisfactory Jabba for the encounter at docking bay 94... And the resulting scene was FAR superior, even after the tech was there and the digital jabba added in.
Soapbox put away...
Mr - Abrams - please make us a great movie Please pay attention to the story. Please select the best technology to get the best look for special effects and don't just grab CG because its easier... The most classic shot in all of Star Wars to this day is the opening of ANH... Done with Models on a shoe string budget by college students :thumbsup
Jedi Dade
But the Star Wars gig is different form the Star Trek Gig. Trek was just about dead from the movie perspective the abomination that was Nemisis killed it (I can't bring myself to watch it a second time). The TV shows had petered out, although I do admit the 4th season of enterprise was pretty awesome but too many people had given up on it by then... the Star trek task was to reinvent and reinvigorate the franchise. The Star Wars Gig is to continue the franchise and grow it. With that in mind I really think that it will be more of what we are used to seeing from a film perspective. CG or real model.
To the topic of this thread - I hope real models are used (more) as well... they just look better. But I think that the real failing of the prequels FX was that everything was filmed in that high def digital camera... and everything looked a bit "off" even if it was live action... It may have been much easier to digitally edit the film that way but the look of the films suffered IMHO. Perhaps the cameras are better now and they can achieve that film grain look now... But attention to how it looks is a biggie. Please limit the lense flares
Breaking out soapbox here...
Also the advent of CGI being a primary FX method has led to sloppy film making IMO... Too often the director can get any wild ass thing that pops into his head on film... But the creative process of figuring out "how do I convey this plot point within the limitations I have" I think often lead to better story telling as the director had to really think and understand the story to get around the limitations of his technology. That extra thinking and planning paid off in STORY elements. For example one of the best scenes in Star Wars in terms of character development was the - HAN SHOT FIRST- scene with Greedo... In one brief scene we learned that Han Solo is a Bad-ass, with a deeper backstory then the dude who takes the lightsword guys to the big planet killing moon. That entire scene was a fabrication since Lucas could not get a satisfactory Jabba for the encounter at docking bay 94... And the resulting scene was FAR superior, even after the tech was there and the digital jabba added in.
Soapbox put away...
Mr - Abrams - please make us a great movie
Please pay attention to the story. Please select the best technology to get the best look for special effects and don't just grab CG because its easier... The most classic shot in all of Star Wars to this day is the opening of ANH... Done with Models on a shoe string budget by college students :thumbsup Jedi Dade
Last edited:
ringa
Well-Known Member
Excellently stated, Jedi Dade! I could not agree with you more.
joewhite
Sr Member
Ah, hell JD, you've got the fanboy in me coming out! I used to rant about the Greedo scene back in the day just like everyone else. Lucas destroyed 6 years of character development when he decided to get politically correct with Han. I was too young too see the movie when it came out but when I did see the movie for myself as a kid, I know I was cheering for Han to blast that mofo away! I wasn't busy questioning how Han could be such a meanie! I mean, he's a friggin green monster with a gun! He deserved it!
Bring on the lens flare...LOL! I don't care! Lucas has a beautiful imagination, yes. But my complaint has always been for a good, established director. A little late but that's fine!
My only other SW complaint was for D. Maul to continue to be the main protagonist (along with Sidious) throughout the prequels. Put all the CG you want but just give us some good characters! Not nice guy, space pirates!
Ah, good ol' nerd rant!
Joe
Bring on the lens flare...LOL! I don't care! Lucas has a beautiful imagination, yes. But my complaint has always been for a good, established director. A little late but that's fine!
My only other SW complaint was for D. Maul to continue to be the main protagonist (along with Sidious) throughout the prequels. Put all the CG you want but just give us some good characters! Not nice guy, space pirates!
Ah, good ol' nerd rant!
Joe
ixtore
Well-Known Member
Just a quick note. Abrams, when asked why he did the Enterprise in CG said (roughly) that he could have made the E as a model, but it would have been an ego-driven thing. That there was no reason to do it other than being able to say he did it.
I thought he used his CG well on the Enterprise shots, skewing the angle, pulling out from the bridge window, etc.
I don't think the problem is CGI as such, but what you're doing with it, how it looks overall and how hard you are willing to work to make it look 'real' and not end up looking like some cartoon version.
I liked his Star Trek, am hopeful for 'Into Darkness' and wish him my best for SW: Ep 7.
One think I'd like him to do is name the movie and take out the episode number. (Blasphemy!) Star Wars was, after all, just Star Wars - a movie where the good guys won and the bad guy got away ......
I thought he used his CG well on the Enterprise shots, skewing the angle, pulling out from the bridge window, etc.
I don't think the problem is CGI as such, but what you're doing with it, how it looks overall and how hard you are willing to work to make it look 'real' and not end up looking like some cartoon version.
I liked his Star Trek, am hopeful for 'Into Darkness' and wish him my best for SW: Ep 7.
One think I'd like him to do is name the movie and take out the episode number. (Blasphemy!) Star Wars was, after all, just Star Wars - a movie where the good guys won and the bad guy got away ......
When they announced disney buying Star Wars and new movies I was SERIOUSLY puilling for Joss... Out of all the "not so new crop of genius's" as directors Whedon is my absolute favorite. He really understands the character and story first obligation of a director... Firefly (and Serenity) is the best (although short lived) sci-fi to come along since ANH...
This is a funny quote in retrospect to whats been put out since it was made but back after ANH came out Lucas was interviewed about the success of star wars and the interviewer kept focussingon the effects... Lucas said "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing"... How right he was... and Joss understands that AND delivers on that.
Jedi Dade
Firefly has a lot of fans here, and that was 100% CGI until the movie, and even then they only made a large model of Serenity so it could crash.
Same with new BSG, JJ Trek, etc. Lots of folks who claim to hate CGI don't say a word if they like the movie.
While I would love to see models used, I've found that for all the hate on CGI, the only time people complain about it is when the movie just plain sucks where it counts: story and character.
I won't complain about the lack of models so long as the movie is good.
Same with new BSG, JJ Trek, etc. Lots of folks who claim to hate CGI don't say a word if they like the movie.
While I would love to see models used, I've found that for all the hate on CGI, the only time people complain about it is when the movie just plain sucks where it counts: story and character.
I won't complain about the lack of models so long as the movie is good.
crackerjazz
Sr Member
CGI is unavoidable so resisting is futile : ) but if they could include at least one or two models (hope they make it a good few), it adds a certain flair for sci-fi modelers in that they know it's something they'd want to replicate and see in person. Same thing with real movie personalities than cartoons/animation - you meet them and the movie becomes even more real. Movie models tie the fantasy and the real world. I sincerely hope JJ built models as a kid and sees them the same way we do.
I don't hate CGI by any stretch... I'm just a proponent for the right tool for the job... and Models still have their place. I'll take the frenetic dogfight of ROTJ over the opening of episode 3 any day... it just looks more real.
As for JJTrek... If a model shop had to actaully build a model of the Narada - We might have had a ship that looked like a real space ship instead of the - whatever the F it was supposed to be. A "minig ship", that looked like a giant space squid or something... an example of the director being able to get whatever wild ass thing he has in his head on screen instead of somthing that was more "real". It is my sincere hope that JJ Abrams takes a step back and really looks qat what was good and bad about his choices in Trek and then does not make similar ones in Star Wars.
Jedi Dade
As for JJTrek... If a model shop had to actaully build a model of the Narada - We might have had a ship that looked like a real space ship instead of the - whatever the F it was supposed to be. A "minig ship", that looked like a giant space squid or something... an example of the director being able to get whatever wild ass thing he has in his head on screen instead of somthing that was more "real". It is my sincere hope that JJ Abrams takes a step back and really looks qat what was good and bad about his choices in Trek and then does not make similar ones in Star Wars.
Jedi Dade
Jedi-72
Sr Member
As much as I abhor what CG wrought in the prequels and the effect that it has had on movies as a whole, I can appreciate it when it's wielded responsibly in the hands of truly talented people. It CAN work well. The problem with the prequels was that it just didn't look very good, whether that's due to the limited skills of the people working on it or the limits of the tech (which I douby highly by the time of ROTS if not AOTC), it just didn't look very good, with a FEW exceptions. Combine that with the crappy set and costume work, and it just didn't gel. The level of artistry just wan't there across the board, and that was in all disciplines...costuming, props, sets, cg. None of it looked real and that was the problem.
Because of the passion that Abrams has for Star Wars I have no doubt that that will translate into the look of the film. My greatest concern is for the story and acting. It'll look pretty, no doubt. I just hope it is watchable.
Because of the passion that Abrams has for Star Wars I have no doubt that that will translate into the look of the film. My greatest concern is for the story and acting. It'll look pretty, no doubt. I just hope it is watchable.
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