Yeah, but if what I think is true is actually true, then ending we saw won't matter anyway.
D.C.'s The Flash (tv series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
Yeah, but if what I think is true is actually true, then ending we saw won't matter anyway.
B-Movie Zombie
Sr Member
I think the guy is the mask is the real Jay.
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KrangPrime
Master Member
I think the masked guy is Barry's Father. something about the profile.
But if that's the case, it doesn't leave many people for Zoom to be.
Also, NEVER stand that close to an open portal. What I don't get, is if zoom had enough time to stick his arm through, why didn't he run through the portal all the way? why drag flash 2 through?
I really hope they don't leave the thread hanging. I was just getting to like jay.
But if that's the case, it doesn't leave many people for Zoom to be.
Also, NEVER stand that close to an open portal. What I don't get, is if zoom had enough time to stick his arm through, why didn't he run through the portal all the way? why drag flash 2 through?
I really hope they don't leave the thread hanging. I was just getting to like jay.
cboath
Master Member
If that Jay was Zoom - interesting how he could put his arm through his own chest while in two different universes...
I, too, thought the guy in mask was the 'real jay', whether real jay is the same actor or eddie...don't know.
IF we'll recognize zoom - we are running out of people it could be. Down to his dad, eddie and who we know as jay more or less. Only other actor they've shown us is Patty and for her to be Zoom I dont think would go over well because that's not been her in the suit to this point.
I, too, thought the guy in mask was the 'real jay', whether real jay is the same actor or eddie...don't know.
IF we'll recognize zoom - we are running out of people it could be. Down to his dad, eddie and who we know as jay more or less. Only other actor they've shown us is Patty and for her to be Zoom I dont think would go over well because that's not been her in the suit to this point.
vaderman1701
Sr Member
Considering Zoom and Barry (Flash) are fast enough to travel through time, what if imploding the breach made Zoom travel through time. I think the man in the mask is Jay. The same Jay as the one who Zoom put his hand through. However, what if they went back in time and now this version of Jay will end up being older. That would make it seem closer to the comics with Jay being much older than Barry and not within 10 years of one another.
When Barry spelled spelled out Jay's name, he told the masked man that Jay did not come with them. The masked guy was angry because that meant that they could not stop what was going to happen to Jay very soon and have him end up in the cage in the mask. The cage has the same glass as Barry, so he has to be a speedster too.
I still think Zoom is either Henry Allen or the original Barry Allen from the first TV series.
When Barry spelled spelled out Jay's name, he told the masked man that Jay did not come with them. The masked guy was angry because that meant that they could not stop what was going to happen to Jay very soon and have him end up in the cage in the mask. The cage has the same glass as Barry, so he has to be a speedster too.
I still think Zoom is either Henry Allen or the original Barry Allen from the first TV series.
KrangPrime
Master Member
you guys lost me on all this stuff...
when does zoom travel through time? how can there be two jay from earth 2?
and im normally good as following this line of reasoning ;o).
when does zoom travel through time? how can there be two jay from earth 2?
and im normally good as following this line of reasoning ;o).
Fawbish
Sr Member
Zoom hasnt been shown to travel through time.
But we can extrapolate from the shows logic that if Barry is fast enough to travel through time, then Zoom definitely is, as Zoom is shown to be faster in every way.
cboath
Master Member
Flip the argument on it's head for a second...
Theoretically - to travel in time you have to hit a certain speed. Once you hit that speed, you start moving in time. So, if barry can travel in time - he can reach that speed. If zoom is faster - he can reach that speed. So, uh, what's the difference - speedwise - once you hit time travel mode? It shouldn't make any difference prior to time travel speed. So, if barry can travel in time, how can zoom be faster?
Is it maybe that zoom isn't faster but has better control? He can stop himself from time travel at 99.9% of time travel speed, but once barry hits 95% or so, he falls over the edge to time travel? Maybe to be faster you time travel 2 second back in time at a time?
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as for two earth 2 jays, that's at least easy to explain - timeline. His timeline on the two earths isn't linear between them.
Theoretically - to travel in time you have to hit a certain speed. Once you hit that speed, you start moving in time. So, if barry can travel in time - he can reach that speed. If zoom is faster - he can reach that speed. So, uh, what's the difference - speedwise - once you hit time travel mode? It shouldn't make any difference prior to time travel speed. So, if barry can travel in time, how can zoom be faster?
Is it maybe that zoom isn't faster but has better control? He can stop himself from time travel at 99.9% of time travel speed, but once barry hits 95% or so, he falls over the edge to time travel? Maybe to be faster you time travel 2 second back in time at a time?
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as for two earth 2 jays, that's at least easy to explain - timeline. His timeline on the two earths isn't linear between them.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Damnit, no one told me there would be math.
Well, in the comics continuity, Barry is the originator of the Speed Force, as his speed generates it. If the same or similar holds true in the TV universe(s), then the theory of Zoom having better control holds true along with the idea that Zoom is faster. If Barry is the actual progenitor of the Speed Force, then he is still subconsciously working out the kinks in how to use it, whereas Zoom has already had years of using a fully developed Speed Force at his disposal.
To put it in layman's terms, Barry is currently developing the internal combustion engine and the car that surrounds it, while Zoom is running circles around him in a Hennessy Venom GT.
To put it in layman's terms, Barry is currently developing the internal combustion engine and the car that surrounds it, while Zoom is running circles around him in a Hennessy Venom GT.
JRHermle
New Member
There is a Man in an Iron Mask being held by Zoom. The back of his hairline is lighter and closely cut (a possible blonde)
A) TV writers like telegraphing information to claim it as "foreshadowing"
Jay on Earth-1 takes Caitlyn to a park where (randomly) the Earth-1 Jay Garrick (called Hunter Zolomon) just happens to be sitting alone on a bench reading Siddhartha.
B) speedsters can move so fast, they create speed mirages.
Book references (from Wikipedia):
- The word Siddhartha is made up of two words in the Sanskrit language, siddha (achieved) + artha (what was searched for), which together means "he who has found meaning (of existence)" or "he who has attained his goals".
- Writer Alexandre Dumas elaborated on the theme in the final installment of his Three Musketeers saga: here the prisoner is forced to wear an iron mask and is Louis XIV's identical twin.
Jay told Caitlyn that "Hunter's" mother died in childbirth and bounced from one foster home to another before finding a permanent family.
Theory:
"Hunter" is the older and non-powered sibling of Jay Garrick. The real Jay is in the iron mask, held prisoner. "Hunter" tried to live up to his brother by attempting to gain speed, but always fell short (Velocity 1-5) and was either approached or offered a deal with Zoom. This mirrors the relationship with Silver age Flash and Cobalt Blue in the comics.
This can still lead to Teddy Sears coming back as an Earth-1 villain or even re-casting for the "real" Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon.
Opinions?
A) TV writers like telegraphing information to claim it as "foreshadowing"
Jay on Earth-1 takes Caitlyn to a park where (randomly) the Earth-1 Jay Garrick (called Hunter Zolomon) just happens to be sitting alone on a bench reading Siddhartha.
B) speedsters can move so fast, they create speed mirages.
Book references (from Wikipedia):
- The word Siddhartha is made up of two words in the Sanskrit language, siddha (achieved) + artha (what was searched for), which together means "he who has found meaning (of existence)" or "he who has attained his goals".
- Writer Alexandre Dumas elaborated on the theme in the final installment of his Three Musketeers saga: here the prisoner is forced to wear an iron mask and is Louis XIV's identical twin.
Jay told Caitlyn that "Hunter's" mother died in childbirth and bounced from one foster home to another before finding a permanent family.
Theory:
"Hunter" is the older and non-powered sibling of Jay Garrick. The real Jay is in the iron mask, held prisoner. "Hunter" tried to live up to his brother by attempting to gain speed, but always fell short (Velocity 1-5) and was either approached or offered a deal with Zoom. This mirrors the relationship with Silver age Flash and Cobalt Blue in the comics.
This can still lead to Teddy Sears coming back as an Earth-1 villain or even re-casting for the "real" Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon.
Opinions?
WOW:eek Did not think they would reveal ZOOM tonight. After all the hubbub it seemed anti climactic to me
spoilers follow.....
So Zoom is Jay Garrick......Ok Zoom walks in with Jays dead body throws him to the floor and says " this is a problem "
so someone please explain this theory Jay Garrick is in the Mask. Ok so now there are 3 Jay Garrick's?
Is it 2 Hunter Zolomon and 1 Real Jay Garrick we have never seen before?
What is the deal?
spoilers follow.....
So Zoom is Jay Garrick......Ok Zoom walks in with Jays dead body throws him to the floor and says " this is a problem "
so someone please explain this theory Jay Garrick is in the Mask. Ok so now there are 3 Jay Garrick's?
Is it 2 Hunter Zolomon and 1 Real Jay Garrick we have never seen before?
What is the deal?
vaderman1701
Sr Member
Spolier:
Maybe the Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon is Zoom and Jay did not know. I still think the man in the mask is Jay Garrack as well.
Maybe the Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon is Zoom and Jay did not know. I still think the man in the mask is Jay Garrack as well.
KrangPrime
Master Member
who are the two people who told barry about king shark? I was only half paying attention working on 3D and at first I thought it was hank and mrs.danvers. earth one duplicates
or something. I thought I've seen every episode of flash...I don't remember waller being introduced either...
so many of these tv shows, it's tough to keep track of what universe is what ....
or something. I thought I've seen every episode of flash...I don't remember waller being introduced either...
so many of these tv shows, it's tough to keep track of what universe is what ....
Mr Mold Maker
Master Member
Not sure if I need to say spoilers considering the last three posts were also spoilers... But: "Spoilers."
When they did the close up on the guy in the mask, it definitely looked like Jay.
So we've got:
Zoom-Jay --- Currently Zoom.
Dead-Jay --- Currently dead. (?)
Mask-Jay --- Currently Zoom's prisoner.
Zolo-Jay --- TBD?
That is still three or four Jay's and/or Hunter Zolomons, correct?
The executive producer says:
"For us, it could only happen because of what happened last season,” Kreisberg explains. “For Barry and the others, as much as they were stung by Wells/Thawne’s betrayal, he had been their mentor and friend and they all felt that vacuum when he was gone. Jay had been watching them and knew that so he was able to masterfully step into the role each of them needed. He became a friend and mentor to Barry. A love interest to the heartbroken Caitlin. He skillfully played them all.”
When they did the close up on the guy in the mask, it definitely looked like Jay.
So we've got:
Zoom-Jay --- Currently Zoom.
Dead-Jay --- Currently dead. (?)
Mask-Jay --- Currently Zoom's prisoner.
Zolo-Jay --- TBD?
That is still three or four Jay's and/or Hunter Zolomons, correct?
The executive producer says:
"For us, it could only happen because of what happened last season,” Kreisberg explains. “For Barry and the others, as much as they were stung by Wells/Thawne’s betrayal, he had been their mentor and friend and they all felt that vacuum when he was gone. Jay had been watching them and knew that so he was able to masterfully step into the role each of them needed. He became a friend and mentor to Barry. A love interest to the heartbroken Caitlin. He skillfully played them all.”
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teragon
Sr Member
From what I understand reading the producer's statement, the Jay who's been helping team flash and romancing Caitlyn was Zoom all along ? That's pretty messed up, worst than what Eobard did actually. But then, who did Zoom killed and brought back to E2 through the breach ? It was a real Jay-looking body, not a speed mirage ? Very confusing !
KrangPrime
Master Member
I don't know if I buy that.
Shows are usually better at setting off clues that would pay off later with something that big.
I don't recall anything that would point out that jay was zoom.
And why would he want to fake being a good guy? he already had wells co-erced into stealing the speed....
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