matty matt
Sr Member
But Luke and Leia as siblings and Vader as the father made it into the original films. They weren't retroactive changes made years later. Completely different thing.
Could Disney finally give us the remastered, unedited Star Wars we want?
- Thread starter rodneyfaile
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JD
Master Member
No, not really a different thing at all. These were done "years later," too - you just don't like them. Lucas has always changed things retroactively... some of it works better for others.
matty matt
Sr Member
JD
Master Member
I think you're missing the big picture if you do. Again, I'm not saying the changes are good or warranted... just that Lucas has a history of changing his mind and his movies.
matty matt
Sr Member
JD
Master Member
I'm not sure how it did either. I was just saying that like Vader yelling "nooo" or Greedo shooting or R2 isn't all that unlike Luke/Leia or Vader being Daddy. All of these elements weren't part of the original plan in 1977.
I'm not endorsing Greedo shooting or Vader's yell... at all.
True.
But creatively speaking, I think the GL who produced ANH existed from about 1973-1980.
Any changes made to the first movie between 1978-1980 . . . they don't belong in an "original version" of the movie but they do belong in a different category from the stuff changed later on.
Heck, just look at the difference between the Vader/father retcon and the Leia/sister retcon. The first one fit really well into the first movie, almost as if the idea was halfway there at the time. The latter change was made only another 2-3 years later but it didn't fit nearly as well.
Just my opinion.
But creatively speaking, I think the GL who produced ANH existed from about 1973-1980.
Any changes made to the first movie between 1978-1980 . . . they don't belong in an "original version" of the movie but they do belong in a different category from the stuff changed later on.
Heck, just look at the difference between the Vader/father retcon and the Leia/sister retcon. The first one fit really well into the first movie, almost as if the idea was halfway there at the time. The latter change was made only another 2-3 years later but it didn't fit nearly as well.
Just my opinion.
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robn1
Master Member
The Vader/father and Leia/sister thing may not have been set from the beginning, but at least they were incorporated at the time each film was made. Not shoehorned in 20+ years later.
Vader as the father was brilliant. Leia as the sister was weak, mostly because nothing was done with the idea. If Leia was indeed "the other" she should have been a more integral part of the Luke/Vader/Palp scene. If Lucas is gonna throw the sister thing out there, do something with it.
Vader as the father was brilliant. Leia as the sister was weak, mostly because nothing was done with the idea. If Leia was indeed "the other" she should have been a more integral part of the Luke/Vader/Palp scene. If Lucas is gonna throw the sister thing out there, do something with it.
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seelsa73
Sr Member
I read that too. Thank goodness they abandoned that idea.
Zombie_61
Master Member
I seem to recall (and I could be wrong) that when the book "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster was released in 1978, it caused a bit of a problem for Lucas because Foster included the Luke/Leia romance as part of the storyline, and Lucas had already intended for it to be revealed (eventually) that they were brother and sister. The book was released as written because Lucas didn't want to have to explain at that point why that aspect of the story shouldn't be included, but it made him realize he needed to oversee the materials that would eventually become known as the Expanded Universe in order to prevent any future contradictions between the storylines in the movies and the storylines in the novels/comics/video games/etc.. Clearly that proved to be more difficult than he imagined at the time, but in 1978 I don't think anyone had any idea Star Wars would become the phenomenon it became even though the movie was an obvious success.
I´ll jump right into the middle of this discussion and say
BAZINGA !!!
No, what I really meant to say was that IIRC yes, he did decide that Luke and Leia were siblings later in the series, around ROTJ scripting, but in the early drafts there were siblings albeit boys, and one of them was killed pretty early in the story.
ATM I am scratching my head a bit regarding the significance of making them siblings. It is a strong moment at the end of ROTJ, but does it actually have any significance for the outcoming of the whole story arc? That was Why was Vader-Anakin not able to sense his daughter, his own 50% of midiclorians swimming around in her bod? Boy am I glad that we did not see Vader hit on Leia like "hey babe, you are a naughty lil girl, and I really like to slam naughty lil girls into walls and medical equipment, so ... at what time are you gonna be off?"
Yes, that would make sense. I mean, if we get something so highly biotechnical as "midichlorians" they should at least come with some kind of activation switch ...
No, seriously, I highly doubt that whether or not the force is strong in someone will be determined by basic training or not. It unfortunaley is just bad writing and a giant plot hole. But tell you what ... I DON´T really CARE! Since being under the influence of SW now amounts to four decades my suspension of disbelief is so huge that it does not really matter to me that there are giant plotholes in the OT. But the PTs are a pain, because trying to retcon stuff makes that suspension of disbelief that was built up in the OT so much harder. Again, it´s the force that is the major example. The introduction of the frakkin Midichlorians blasted a HUGE chunk out of my personal ability to sit back and enjoy the force being used by Obi, Luke, Yoda, Vader and the Emperor. Less is more. And that´s why all copies of the PT must be collected and burnt. BURNT !!! BURNT I SAY!!!
Now, where was I ? What did we talk about? ...
glunark
Sr Member
Imagine if you had been born with the innate ability to be the best natural shot in the world, pick up any gun and you will always hit the target, you don't even need to look through the sights.
Now imagine you go through your whole life without ever picking up a gun.
The ability is there, you just don't know you have it.
That to me is like having the force and not being trained in it.
Now imagine you go through your whole life without ever picking up a gun.
The ability is there, you just don't know you have it.
That to me is like having the force and not being trained in it.
I totally agree. But lil´ AnnieFanny did not have any training and still QuiGon sensed his strength. So why didn´t Vader, the supposedly strongest of them all, not sense his daughter? Another contradiction between PT and OT. Caused by bad writing.
But lets get back on topic. I´d SO applaud the release of an original version ...
glunark
Sr Member
Vader was born from the force, for a Jedi like Qui Gon it would be hard not to notice.
Vader is more man than machine, if midichorians can only exist in living tissue he would have lost a lot of his host space.
Luke was using the force to dodge most of Vader's shots, Liea wasn't using the force.
Vader is more man than machine, if midichorians can only exist in living tissue he would have lost a lot of his host space.
Luke was using the force to dodge most of Vader's shots, Liea wasn't using the force.
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