Blade Runner 2049
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Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Grim, isn't it? In Hollywood's Golden Age, the two regularly happily coincided because producers had to make art if they wanted to make any money.
Grim, isn't it? In Hollywood's Golden Age, the two regularly happily coincided because producers had to make art if they wanted to make any money.
re: Blade Runner Sequel
I suppose that as a fan a film that has been starved of products basically compared to other things like SW, Trek, Alien etc. Even stupid lame sequals would help get some original film products out there. So there is that and it's not all bad for a BR purist.
I suppose that as a fan a film that has been starved of products basically compared to other things like SW, Trek, Alien etc. Even stupid lame sequals would help get some original film products out there. So there is that and it's not all bad for a BR purist.
CTF
Sr Member
androidandy
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. In order for this film to really make its money, it needs people to see it more than once. It needs people to buy the DVD and Bluray, and then the merchandise. If the film ends up disappointing us, they lose all the rest of that money. Now days they really need the merchandising, because DVD sales are way down. I am confident that they are counting on us seeing this movie over and over again. One ticket won't get their money back, even if all Blade Runner fans see it. Unfortunately they will also need people that are not fans of the first movie to see it too, and I do worry they may want to expand the base of people to see this one, but I don't think they need to. Inception was a success with almost exactly the same customer base, because people went back over and over again to see it, and saw it on Imax
I also grew up in the days when Sequels were good things. I remember The Empire Strikes Back, The Road Warrior, The Wrath of Khan, and Aliens. Movies that helped make the whole concept of franchise as we see it today. Good sequels can be made, and it is in their best interest to do so. Especially with a "Franchise" that doesn't appeal to children, but adults, and intelligent thinking adults. The movies in these franchises that didn't make a ton of money were exactly the ones they meddled too much with. They may actually learn from there mistakes. It makes me feel better that Warners has actually no say in this too.
Also when fans spoke up about how they hated Jar Jar, his character got a lot less screen time and slightly better lines. The movies got a little bit better too. I am positive that fan feedback is listened to. I agree that the big studios are filled with guys that only care about quantifiable risks and returns on their money, and are not as willing to take chances with new ideas, but it does look like this is not a big studio after all.
As far as starting with low expectations. I have tried that in the past and it has not really worked. Mainly because if I think too negatively, even if it is good, I already have expectations that taint it, and I look for the bad stuff, instead of trying to look for the good stuff, or just seeing it for what it is. I have written off pretty movies I could have enjoyed as a result. Some of them I luckily went back and gave a second chance to.
Still it might not matter any way. I have been envisioning sequel stories in my head for over 25 years. I already have high expectations. There is no way to take that stuff out of my head. My only option left it to write them and beg them to do stuff better than I have in my head.
Andy
Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. In order for this film to really make its money, it needs people to see it more than once. It needs people to buy the DVD and Bluray, and then the merchandise. If the film ends up disappointing us, they lose all the rest of that money. Now days they really need the merchandising, because DVD sales are way down. I am confident that they are counting on us seeing this movie over and over again. One ticket won't get their money back, even if all Blade Runner fans see it. Unfortunately they will also need people that are not fans of the first movie to see it too, and I do worry they may want to expand the base of people to see this one, but I don't think they need to. Inception was a success with almost exactly the same customer base, because people went back over and over again to see it, and saw it on Imax
I also grew up in the days when Sequels were good things. I remember The Empire Strikes Back, The Road Warrior, The Wrath of Khan, and Aliens. Movies that helped make the whole concept of franchise as we see it today. Good sequels can be made, and it is in their best interest to do so. Especially with a "Franchise" that doesn't appeal to children, but adults, and intelligent thinking adults. The movies in these franchises that didn't make a ton of money were exactly the ones they meddled too much with. They may actually learn from there mistakes. It makes me feel better that Warners has actually no say in this too.
Also when fans spoke up about how they hated Jar Jar, his character got a lot less screen time and slightly better lines. The movies got a little bit better too. I am positive that fan feedback is listened to. I agree that the big studios are filled with guys that only care about quantifiable risks and returns on their money, and are not as willing to take chances with new ideas, but it does look like this is not a big studio after all.
As far as starting with low expectations. I have tried that in the past and it has not really worked. Mainly because if I think too negatively, even if it is good, I already have expectations that taint it, and I look for the bad stuff, instead of trying to look for the good stuff, or just seeing it for what it is. I have written off pretty movies I could have enjoyed as a result. Some of them I luckily went back and gave a second chance to.
Still it might not matter any way. I have been envisioning sequel stories in my head for over 25 years. I already have high expectations. There is no way to take that stuff out of my head. My only option left it to write them and beg them to do stuff better than I have in my head
.Andy
Samhain2000
Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
I'm sure one of the Baldwin brothers will gladly fill Harrison Fords role.
I'm sure one of the Baldwin brothers will gladly fill Harrison Fords role.
Solo4114
Master Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
In theory, I can see where you'd be right. But I think that these days Hollywood makes its money on opening weekend. This is why every movie is preceded by a huge marketing blitz prior to release -- build up hype and excitement, to get butts in seats on opening weekend. Even movies that make their money back are considered failures if they don't go well above that on opening weekend, or maintain a decent haul from opening to second weekend. Repeated viewings naturally help, but the initial goal is to make as much money as possible in the first weekend and figure that, after that point, it's all gravy.
Without regard to any BR sequel or prequel or side story, I don't think they usually count on REPEAT viewings or the DVD/Blu-Ray or other merchandising to make the money. It's opening weekend and that's it. Otherwise your film is a failure, the "franchise" is dead, and that's that. There's also the usual expected 50% drop from Week 1 to Week 2, which is why opening weekend is so critical. The longer the film is out, the less money it takes in per week, so Week 1 is IT. You prime the pump, hope for a relatively small drop-off, and then move on to the next one. Nobody (I don't think, anyway) goes in with expectations of "Ahh, we might have had low turnout this week, but our numbers will stay high from week to week due to repeat viewings!"
I grew up in that era as well.
That era is long gone, I am sad to say. Back then, the marketing machine wasn't as refined as it is today, so you actually had to rely on your movie being good to make money. This is where the convergence of quality and sequels worked. Sequels couldn't suck or they'd make no money (of course, plenty still did...). Nowadays, though, the marketing machine is so refined and so precise that I don't think anyone cares if a film is worth a damn in terms of quality. It can always be packaged properly via the trailer and pre-release blitz.
I think your example is "damning with faint praise." "Mary, you sweat less than any other fat girl I know."
Fan feedback can help, but can it save a film? I don't think so. The SW prequels are a great example there. Yes, there was less annoying Jar Jar in the subsequent prequels, but that didn't make them good films. Did they improve? Yes, but, at least in my opinion, only in the sense that a dried dog turd is better than a fresh, steaming wet one. Harsh, yes, but that's my view of 'em.
That's cool, man. I mean, whatever works for you, I guess. Me, I tend to prefer the "Wow! That wasn't as crappy as I was expecting!" experience, and I tend to get it if I manage my expectations properly on the front end. I have my own version of mental contortions that I go through in order to take films that aren't that good but are part of my favorite franchises and still watch them without having the rest of the franchised diminished. Not everyone gets that notion either (that a bad film in a franchise can hurt my enjoyment of the other movies, I mean). But anyway, I guess godspeed to you, good sir. I hope you aren't too disappointed by whatever happens here. Personally, I think you'd be better left with your own imagination as the side stories and such. I have a feeling it'd be infinitely better than whatever these suits can come up with...
Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. In order for this film to really make its money, it needs people to see it more than once. It needs people to buy the DVD and Bluray, and then the merchandise. If the film ends up disappointing us, they lose all the rest of that money. Now days they really need the merchandising, because DVD sales are way down. I am confident that they are counting on us seeing this movie over and over again. One ticket won't get their money back, even if all Blade Runner fans see it. Unfortunately they will also need people that are not fans of the first movie to see it too, and I do worry they may want to expand the base of people to see this one, but I don't think they need to. Inception was a success with almost exactly the same customer base, because people went back over and over again to see it, and saw it on Imax
In theory, I can see where you'd be right. But I think that these days Hollywood makes its money on opening weekend. This is why every movie is preceded by a huge marketing blitz prior to release -- build up hype and excitement, to get butts in seats on opening weekend. Even movies that make their money back are considered failures if they don't go well above that on opening weekend, or maintain a decent haul from opening to second weekend. Repeated viewings naturally help, but the initial goal is to make as much money as possible in the first weekend and figure that, after that point, it's all gravy.
Without regard to any BR sequel or prequel or side story, I don't think they usually count on REPEAT viewings or the DVD/Blu-Ray or other merchandising to make the money. It's opening weekend and that's it. Otherwise your film is a failure, the "franchise" is dead, and that's that. There's also the usual expected 50% drop from Week 1 to Week 2, which is why opening weekend is so critical. The longer the film is out, the less money it takes in per week, so Week 1 is IT. You prime the pump, hope for a relatively small drop-off, and then move on to the next one. Nobody (I don't think, anyway) goes in with expectations of "Ahh, we might have had low turnout this week, but our numbers will stay high from week to week due to repeat viewings!"
I grew up in that era as well.
That era is long gone, I am sad to say. Back then, the marketing machine wasn't as refined as it is today, so you actually had to rely on your movie being good to make money. This is where the convergence of quality and sequels worked. Sequels couldn't suck or they'd make no money (of course, plenty still did...). Nowadays, though, the marketing machine is so refined and so precise that I don't think anyone cares if a film is worth a damn in terms of quality. It can always be packaged properly via the trailer and pre-release blitz.
I think your example is "damning with faint praise." "Mary, you sweat less than any other fat girl I know."
Fan feedback can help, but can it save a film? I don't think so. The SW prequels are a great example there. Yes, there was less annoying Jar Jar in the subsequent prequels, but that didn't make them good films. Did they improve? Yes, but, at least in my opinion, only in the sense that a dried dog turd is better than a fresh, steaming wet one. Harsh, yes, but that's my view of 'em.
As far as starting with low expectations. I have tried that in the past and it has not really worked. Mainly because if I think too negatively, even if it is good, I already have expectations that taint it, and I look for the bad stuff, instead of trying to look for the good stuff, or just seeing it for what it is. I have written off pretty movies I could have enjoyed as a result. Some of them I luckily went back and gave a second chance to.
Still it might not matter any way. I have been envisioning sequel stories in my head for over 25 years. I already have high expectations. There is no way to take that stuff out of my head. My only option left it to write them and beg them to do stuff better than I have in my head
Andy
That's cool, man. I mean, whatever works for you, I guess. Me, I tend to prefer the "Wow! That wasn't as crappy as I was expecting!" experience, and I tend to get it if I manage my expectations properly on the front end. I have my own version of mental contortions that I go through in order to take films that aren't that good but are part of my favorite franchises and still watch them without having the rest of the franchised diminished. Not everyone gets that notion either (that a bad film in a franchise can hurt my enjoyment of the other movies, I mean). But anyway, I guess godspeed to you, good sir. I hope you aren't too disappointed by whatever happens here. Personally, I think you'd be better left with your own imagination as the side stories and such. I have a feeling it'd be infinitely better than whatever these suits can come up with...
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
What if it doesnt suck? What if it is AWESOME!
Blade Runner is one of the best movies ever made, and considered by many ot be the best sci-fi movie of them all. SO the odds that a sequel or prequel, or just another movie based in the same universe wont be as good as the original Blade Runner. But it could still be GREAT without being as good or better.
Just the chance to see more of that neo-noir cyberpunk dystopian future I will gladly risk the price of an opening day ticket to see.
Not even TRYING to make something would be the true crime.
What if it doesnt suck? What if it is AWESOME!
Blade Runner is one of the best movies ever made, and considered by many ot be the best sci-fi movie of them all. SO the odds that a sequel or prequel, or just another movie based in the same universe wont be as good as the original Blade Runner. But it could still be GREAT without being as good or better.
Just the chance to see more of that neo-noir cyberpunk dystopian future I will gladly risk the price of an opening day ticket to see.
Not even TRYING to make something would be the true crime.
androidandy
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
It used to be about opening weekend, but not anymore. At least not with the larger budget films. The reason these films started to get such bigger budgets is because they started to earn so much more after the initial weeks. An average opening weekend for a blockbuster is under $50,000,000, but these films cost a several times more than that to make, promote and distribute. Don't forget they have to also earn back all the money they paid for the rights to make these films. Opening weekend is now days just an attemt to get enough of a broad sample to go, so that it will find a large enough sample of it's future audience and sales. Critics reviews and word of mouth will do the next step of promotion. Before Star Wars and the Blockbuster effect, most sequels were given less money than the original to be made, now they are given more. I am not guessing at this, I have done my research.
As far as no good sequels anymore, I thought Dark Knight Returns was better than Batman Begins. And both were quite good. I am not saying any BR sequel is going to be awesome, or in any way better than the original, but it has to be at least good enough to earn those second round of sales, and it needs to please us to do that. Let's say that someone is going to cook an expensive meal for you, Would you tell the cook, "It is going to suck anyway, so I don't care", "If it is good it is good, if not so what", or "this is what I really like". I don't expect them to use follow the old recipe, but to do something new to a degree, but more importantly, to not use ingrediants I am allergic to.
Andy
It used to be about opening weekend, but not anymore. At least not with the larger budget films. The reason these films started to get such bigger budgets is because they started to earn so much more after the initial weeks. An average opening weekend for a blockbuster is under $50,000,000, but these films cost a several times more than that to make, promote and distribute. Don't forget they have to also earn back all the money they paid for the rights to make these films. Opening weekend is now days just an attemt to get enough of a broad sample to go, so that it will find a large enough sample of it's future audience and sales. Critics reviews and word of mouth will do the next step of promotion. Before Star Wars and the Blockbuster effect, most sequels were given less money than the original to be made, now they are given more. I am not guessing at this, I have done my research.
As far as no good sequels anymore, I thought Dark Knight Returns was better than Batman Begins. And both were quite good. I am not saying any BR sequel is going to be awesome, or in any way better than the original, but it has to be at least good enough to earn those second round of sales, and it needs to please us to do that. Let's say that someone is going to cook an expensive meal for you, Would you tell the cook, "It is going to suck anyway, so I don't care", "If it is good it is good, if not so what", or "this is what I really like". I don't expect them to use follow the old recipe, but to do something new to a degree, but more importantly, to not use ingrediants I am allergic to.
Andy
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
That isnt exactly what I meant.
More like:
Lets say your grandma made the worlds best spaghetti, but now she has passed on. So you say you will never eat any spaghetti ever because it couldnt possibly be as good as hers.
Well how do you know if you never let anyone try to make it for you?
I am saying that they can make a GREAT film. Maybe it isnt as good as the original Blade Runner, but then again, WHAT IS? Doesnt mean it still cant be great! May even be better, if you can get over nostalgia and sentiment.
The true crime would be if no one ever even tried.
That isnt exactly what I meant.
More like:
Lets say your grandma made the worlds best spaghetti, but now she has passed on. So you say you will never eat any spaghetti ever because it couldnt possibly be as good as hers.
Well how do you know if you never let anyone try to make it for you?
I am saying that they can make a GREAT film. Maybe it isnt as good as the original Blade Runner, but then again, WHAT IS? Doesnt mean it still cant be great! May even be better, if you can get over nostalgia and sentiment.
The true crime would be if no one ever even tried.
Solo4114
Master Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Sorry, I disagree. Based on past experiences, I'm just a lot less optimistic that whatever is made won't diminish the rest of it.
But here's why I say that.
I am someone for whom a bad sequel or prequel can diminish my enjoyment of the original work. I don't fully understand it myself, and it takes a certain amount of mental acrobatics and self-BSing to get myself to enjoy the original works again after having seen the subsequent crappy ones, but there it is. I've had it happen too many times to believe that it wouldn't happen here, ESPECIALLY given what the producers have said. They don't even KNOW what they're optioning. They don't even HAVE a story yet. It's not as if someone sat down and wrote a labor-of-love Blade Runner sequel that is truly a "love letter to the fans" or something. No, you've got some producers who say "Hey...Blade Runner....yeah...that was a cool movie. We should get the rights to that, and then go find someone to make us a movie that will make some money."
I'm not saying it definitely WON'T work out. I'm saying it PROBABLY won't. If it works, great. I'll see it on DVD, probably. I will not, however, fall victim to pre-release hype or my own imagination of how ZOMG COOL! it COULD be. I've been there, I've done that, and nothing lives up to my imagination. My notions of how COOL something would be always end up unfulfilled because, well, frankly, I have different tastes from the masses much of the time, and because my notions are just that -- notions. Not fully formed stories, just "Yeah, that'd be cool...." ideas.
Given that my enjoyment of stuff CAN be hurt by additional material, I'd just prefer that nothing be done. Or if it's done, I'll likely just skip it. You can go see it if you want, but frankly, I'm done with that. And I'm also done with rewarding Hollywood for being so ridiculously ***king lazy. WRITE ORIGINAL STORIES for chrissakes! Enough with the remakes/reboots/sequels/prequels.
I hear you. There CAN be good sequels and such, but I think the Nolan Batman films are more the exception to the rule. And while, for example, Casino Royale was (in my opinion) a terrific reboot of a tired franchise, Quantum of Solace was a godawful mess. So, it can cut both ways and, these days, I tend to see it cutting more against the possibility of good subsequent works based on the same stuff.
But hey, roll the bones. Go ahead and see it. But don't say I didn't warn ya.
Sorry, I disagree. Based on past experiences, I'm just a lot less optimistic that whatever is made won't diminish the rest of it.
But here's why I say that.
I am someone for whom a bad sequel or prequel can diminish my enjoyment of the original work. I don't fully understand it myself, and it takes a certain amount of mental acrobatics and self-BSing to get myself to enjoy the original works again after having seen the subsequent crappy ones, but there it is. I've had it happen too many times to believe that it wouldn't happen here, ESPECIALLY given what the producers have said. They don't even KNOW what they're optioning. They don't even HAVE a story yet. It's not as if someone sat down and wrote a labor-of-love Blade Runner sequel that is truly a "love letter to the fans" or something. No, you've got some producers who say "Hey...Blade Runner....yeah...that was a cool movie. We should get the rights to that, and then go find someone to make us a movie that will make some money."
I'm not saying it definitely WON'T work out. I'm saying it PROBABLY won't. If it works, great. I'll see it on DVD, probably. I will not, however, fall victim to pre-release hype or my own imagination of how ZOMG COOL! it COULD be. I've been there, I've done that, and nothing lives up to my imagination. My notions of how COOL something would be always end up unfulfilled because, well, frankly, I have different tastes from the masses much of the time, and because my notions are just that -- notions. Not fully formed stories, just "Yeah, that'd be cool...." ideas.
Given that my enjoyment of stuff CAN be hurt by additional material, I'd just prefer that nothing be done. Or if it's done, I'll likely just skip it. You can go see it if you want, but frankly, I'm done with that. And I'm also done with rewarding Hollywood for being so ridiculously ***king lazy. WRITE ORIGINAL STORIES for chrissakes! Enough with the remakes/reboots/sequels/prequels.
I hear you. There CAN be good sequels and such, but I think the Nolan Batman films are more the exception to the rule. And while, for example, Casino Royale was (in my opinion) a terrific reboot of a tired franchise, Quantum of Solace was a godawful mess. So, it can cut both ways and, these days, I tend to see it cutting more against the possibility of good subsequent works based on the same stuff.
But hey, roll the bones. Go ahead and see it. But don't say I didn't warn ya.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
So there can be no more Blade Runner movies because Caddyshack 2 already ruined them along with the original Caddyshack?
Well someone has to break the pattern. Maybe the people making more Blade Runner movies will understand what it is to make a great movie and turn the tide.
I just cant understand the mentality of not wanting to at least try.
I am VERY MUCH looking forward to Duncan Jones tribute to Blade Runner! That is as close as I can get right now.
So there can be no more Blade Runner movies because Caddyshack 2 already ruined them along with the original Caddyshack?
Well someone has to break the pattern. Maybe the people making more Blade Runner movies will understand what it is to make a great movie and turn the tide.
I just cant understand the mentality of not wanting to at least try.
I am VERY MUCH looking forward to Duncan Jones tribute to Blade Runner! That is as close as I can get right now.
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Jones is an artist. His Blade Runner homage 'Mute', will probably be a more satisfactory movie than this here sequel/prequel. Moon was the antithesis to modern Hollywood. To be any good at all, any BR film must also be the antithesis to today's Tinseltown... That's a pretty tall order. Could the suits really hack that? Could they really hack flying in the face of what they know they can already sell (vacuous garbage)...?
Jones is an artist. His Blade Runner homage 'Mute', will probably be a more satisfactory movie than this here sequel/prequel. Moon was the antithesis to modern Hollywood. To be any good at all, any BR film must also be the antithesis to today's Tinseltown... That's a pretty tall order. Could the suits really hack that? Could they really hack flying in the face of what they know they can already sell (vacuous garbage)...?
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Yep.
Why would anyone invest potentially 60-100 millions dollars based on a film that pretty much tanked first time around.
Though I suppose Tron may give them inspiration as that also wasn't so hot in B.O.
Yep.
Why would anyone invest potentially 60-100 millions dollars based on a film that pretty much tanked first time around.
Though I suppose Tron may give them inspiration as that also wasn't so hot in B.O.
androidandy
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
I know we all have an amount of cynicism here. I don't think anyone here is being naive. I am just saying if we don't let them know what we do and don't want, we have no right to complain later. Being negative about it doesn't help anything at all. My expectations are realistically low, but I also think we can have an impact on it if we are specific to exactly what we do and don't want from the film. Give them something to work with and get it out there.
Believe it or not I know of several studio people that check these boards out. I had talked personally to a couple that checked out the boards at IMDB regularly before, and they knew about this one too. Sometimes the best way to know if an idea is a bad one is to hear someone else say it. Same goes for the good ideas.
Andy
I know we all have an amount of cynicism here. I don't think anyone here is being naive. I am just saying if we don't let them know what we do and don't want, we have no right to complain later. Being negative about it doesn't help anything at all. My expectations are realistically low, but I also think we can have an impact on it if we are specific to exactly what we do and don't want from the film. Give them something to work with and get it out there.
Believe it or not I know of several studio people that check these boards out. I had talked personally to a couple that checked out the boards at IMDB regularly before, and they knew about this one too. Sometimes the best way to know if an idea is a bad one is to hear someone else say it. Same goes for the good ideas.
Andy
d_jedi1
Sr Member
re: Blade Runner Sequel
Harrison Ford Discusses Blade Runner Sequel...but is it a Good Idea? | Geek Zenith
Theres a video where they ask ford about possible involvement in a sequel.
his reply?
“I have no idea at this point. It’s very early on.”
Now while it may be a bad idea, it WOULD answer the #1 question among fans.
It might also generate new licensed materials (come on 1:6th Deckard figure!!).
I'll bet Ridley Scott would hate it. :lol
Harrison Ford Discusses Blade Runner Sequel...but is it a Good Idea? | Geek Zenith
Theres a video where they ask ford about possible involvement in a sequel.
his reply?
“I have no idea at this point. It’s very early on.”
Now while it may be a bad idea, it WOULD answer the #1 question among fans.
It might also generate new licensed materials (come on 1:6th Deckard figure!!).
I'll bet Ridley Scott would hate it. :lol
re: Blade Runner Sequel
I bet Scott would hate it if he weren't involved on some level. He had a hand in the final cut, and he is presently revisiting the ALIEN franchise. A lot of what Scott wanted to do with the original can be easily done digitally on the cheap now.......
I bet Scott would hate it if he weren't involved on some level. He had a hand in the final cut, and he is presently revisiting the ALIEN franchise. A lot of what Scott wanted to do with the original can be easily done digitally on the cheap now.......
