Battlestar galactica 'the plan' <--anyone see this yet?

neosporing

Sr Member
spoilers - kind of... the plan seems to be made up of scenes cut from the entire run, ...

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i heard that it was cut with some new fillers scenes to tie it all together, includeing:

other planetscapes, before and after the attack
topless bartenders
full frontal penis
sex - grabbing and grinding nude body parts
a couple of new story lines ..
 
I don't believe it's just cut footage mushed together. From what I've read, it's supposed to be newly filmed material mixed in with the previously existing footage to show various parts of the series from the cylon's point of view. Hence, a better understanding of "the plan" that's mentioned at the beginning of the earlier episodes.

There's also supposed to be a large focus on Daniel, who was only mentioned briefly in season 4.

I believe there's a review at www.digitalbits.com for those interested.
 
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just saw it today and it blows. sure there are interesting snippets, but overall it doesn't really h ave much to say and takes a hell of a long time to get to the point.

for completeness it is worth watching, but not an essential. the performances are fine, and its always nice to see some of the lesser cylon actors, simon, dorrell and leoben get some more screen time.

we even get to see a bit more of the fall, but no real space action, just a lot of bitty little scenes to tie things all together.

th direction is fine, its just that EJO isn't given much to work with to be fair.
 
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nope, there was no mention of daniel
the plan focused squarly on cavil(s), #4(s), and anders

a bit of digging produced this quote from moore

"You know, the Daniel thing is going to be one of the great fiascos of the show, in terms of what fans thought and what the truth was. Because Daniel was not intended to be anything more than an interesting bit of backstory in that episode. And that's how we approached it. It was just a story that Cavil and Ellen tell each other, that sort of goes to the idea of who Cavil was and how deep his resentments were, and his jealous nature - and [we wanted to] do a Cain and Abel allegory. That was all it was."

--http://io9.com/5175958/daniel-was-battlestars-biggest-fiasco-says-ron-moore
 
it doesn't really h ave much to say and takes a hell of a long time to get to the point.

So it's just like the series then. :lol

Seriously tho, I haven't seen Plan yet, probably will though just for completeness sake. Galactica is (and always was) about the ride, not about getting anywhere in particular.

As far as Daniel, hasn't Moore already admitted that Daniel was "made up" at the last minute to cover for the fact that they had MISCOUNTED the number of Cylon models, and had an extra one to account for? :lol
 
Ron Moore fails at plotting yet again with the Daniel thing, I guess. Based on the digitalbits review, and the discussions here, it sounds like "The Plan" is more exploration of character rather than "big reveal" of any deeper mysteries. Not sure if I'm gonna end up buying this one. I still haven't bought 4.5, either.

I have to say that, while I enjoyed the show as it was ongoing, the ultimate wrap-up of much of this stuff...well, it left me cold. It just didn't do justice to the big "mystery" elements of the show. I get the sense that Moore continually misread his audience, and misunderstood where he was leading them. The Daniel thing speaks loud and clear to this. As does the "WTF is up with Starbuck" resolution, and much of the rest of the plot. Moore seems to care about how the Daniel thing managed to totally fail with the audience, but he doesn't seem able to realize that the same problem the Daniel thing represented is why the finale was so unsatisfying on a plot-oriented level. Great character resolutions in terms of their emotional journeys, but it's like he just didn't give a **** about the plot. Never mind the fact that he'd spent FOUR SEASONS PLUS A MINISERIES building up tension around not JUST the characters, but also the plot. I guess he figured any plot tension was purely to motivate characters to do interesting things.


Some day TV writers will learn to balance that stuff out better. A soap opera in space is not what I signed on for. I appreciate good drama, but the underlying plot itself has to actually go somewhere too.
 
So it's just like the series then. :lol

Seriously tho, I haven't seen Plan yet, probably will though just for completeness sake. Galactica is (and always was) about the ride, not about getting anywhere in particular.

That's the defense Moore and apologists use, yeah. I don't buy it, though. The ride is critical. Make no mistake. But the resolution has got to pay off the tensions you build up DURING the ride. I don't think the resolution of the big "mysteries" he built up was at all satisfying. All the plot stuff seems to be an afterthought for him, conveniently wrapped up with a literal deus ex machina ending. Hey, it's all about the characters and the ride, right? Who cares about the mystery.

what I'm saying is that it's really bad form to tease your audience with mystery this and mystery that, only to ultimately end up saying "Eh, it didn't really matter after all. Weren't the characters GREAT, though?!" Yes, the characters were great. Now answer the damn questions you raised with more than an afterthought. Except, as with many other "mystery"-driven long-term shows, I think he never really exactly had much of a developed sense of the plot and where it was going. Not to the degree that he managed to build up its supposed importance.
 
my take, the problem with the plan is that what it hints at is this

ultimately the cylons (and they don't realise it) are human in the sense that they make the same mistakes humans do, because the initial attacks on the colonies fail, (because some escape) and then the few cylons in the fleet play at trying to bring things to a close and make a poor showing of it.

some of them, get conscience, some of them become affected by their surroundings and even deviate from the 'plan' because they realise some things about themselves, and humans.

so if that's the message to this slice of galactica, god it took its time getting there.

as moore calls it, the daniel fiasco is a direct by product of his operating maxim of letting things play out,hoping he'll be able to write himself out the whole he just put himself.

example being the end of best of both worlds part 1. I've read articles before where they confessed they honestly had no idea how they were going to get themselves out of that one until they had a few months hiatus to think about it.

while I liked the end of galactica, the whole disappearing starbuck thing still ticks me off, because you have to just accept, as an audience, that on a metaphysical level she was to all intents and purposes, an angel, indirectly under the influence of some divine being (the god like figure the head baltar and head six refer to)

fine, no problem, the only issue is that nowhere else through the entire series is that level of divine intervention hinted at because until the end, we never know, as an audience what head six and head baltar are, so when they are revealed at the end, it feels a bit of a cheat because it comes out of left field with no foreshadowing so we as an audience are not prepared for it.

it makes sense, but it almost breaks the internal rules established throughout the series

at least in the original galactica, resurecction of dead people worked, because we saw them do it with apollo and the ship of lights, so you could accept it on that level.

In the nu bsg we never saw that happen until the end so it jars.

isn't the first time Moore did this either.

think back to the end of season 2 when all of a sudden, out of left field, tyrol thinks he could be a cylon and cavill appears out of nowhere as a religious figure and discusses things with him.

the whole thing felt forced because suddenly it was sprung on us with 3 episodes to go in the season. that really needed to be introduced earlier in the season so we as an audience can look back and go 'ah ha'

instead, it felt contrived.

same goes for the plan. its a nice appetiser and all, but could have been better
 
When is this out or will it air?

I know I rented Caprica recently and I was really surprised how much
Nudity there was in it. Boobs, butts, lesbians, oh my......... :eek

Lots of editing on that one before it airs.
 
I am a fan of BSG as you guys know. And there is not a week that goes by that I don't miss spotting a new episode promo at the start of the week and sitting down, ready to watch a new episode every Friday at 9 pm. "Battlestar Galactica" is not your father's "Star Trek", that's for sure. And the fact that the series is over, I am still suffering the withdrawal of an excellent story, characters with flaws and a realism that is lacking in most Sci-Fi stories these days.

I've been anticipating "The Plan". I do know that "The Plan" is coming up soon (I think it's in November), but I don't know if they are releasing the DVD first and then air the movie or if they'll air the movie first and then release it on DVD (I've heard conflicting reports about which comes first). I trust EJO, as he's proved himself an excellent director with "American Me" and with two episodes of the show (including the only comedic episode in the series, "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down"). I have no reason to doubt that "The Plan" is going to be one of the great TV movies for the series and I think that EJO's comments about it is going to be true: that we're going to have to go back and rewatch the whole series, as "The Plan" plans on showing us the other side of the story, filling in the pieces we did not get.

As for the whole Daniel thing, it is and has been addressed in the "Final Five" comic series from Dynamite Entertainment comics. Granted, it is not going to be a part of the TV movie or the series, but the comics were written by a writer who worked on the series. And though I also have high hopes for "Caprica" as well, I will continue to miss "Battlestar Galactica". And I also agree with Mr. Olmos' comment about "Battlestar Galactica": Much like "Blade Runner", it's going to be years from now when people look at it and truly understand it.

So say we all.
 
my take, the problem with the plan is that what it hints at is this

ultimately the cylons (and they don't realise it) are human in the sense that they make the same mistakes humans do, because the initial attacks on the colonies fail, (because some escape) and then the few cylons in the fleet play at trying to bring things to a close and make a poor showing of it.

some of them, get conscience, some of them become affected by their surroundings and even deviate from the 'plan' because they realise some things about themselves, and humans.

so if that's the message to this slice of galactica, god it took its time getting there.

as moore calls it, the daniel fiasco is a direct by product of his operating maxim of letting things play out,hoping he'll be able to write himself out the whole he just put himself.

example being the end of best of both worlds part 1. I've read articles before where they confessed they honestly had no idea how they were going to get themselves out of that one until they had a few months hiatus to think about it.

while I liked the end of galactica, the whole disappearing starbuck thing still ticks me off, because you have to just accept, as an audience, that on a metaphysical level she was to all intents and purposes, an angel, indirectly under the influence of some divine being (the god like figure the head baltar and head six refer to)

fine, no problem, the only issue is that nowhere else through the entire series is that level of divine intervention hinted at because until the end, we never know, as an audience what head six and head baltar are, so when they are revealed at the end, it feels a bit of a cheat because it comes out of left field with no foreshadowing so we as an audience are not prepared for it.

it makes sense, but it almost breaks the internal rules established throughout the series

at least in the original galactica, resurecction of dead people worked, because we saw them do it with apollo and the ship of lights, so you could accept it on that level.

In the nu bsg we never saw that happen until the end so it jars.

isn't the first time Moore did this either.

think back to the end of season 2 when all of a sudden, out of left field, tyrol thinks he could be a cylon and cavill appears out of nowhere as a religious figure and discusses things with him.

the whole thing felt forced because suddenly it was sprung on us with 3 episodes to go in the season. that really needed to be introduced earlier in the season so we as an audience can look back and go 'ah ha'

instead, it felt contrived.

same goes for the plan. its a nice appetiser and all, but could have been better


Yeah, good points. I mean, I haven't seen The Plan, but good points about the series itself. Much of Moore's approach appeared to be allowing the characters to dictate where the story would go. Character-driven writing. IN GENERAL I don't have a problem with that. I enjoy strong characters who do interesting things. I enjoy seeing writers develop these believable people and then have them react to situations in a believable way.

But, as you point out, this can often leave you having written yourself into a corner. Case in point in NBSG -- Starbuck. you develop the character, have things happen to her, have her react to them and develop more, and so on and so forth. Eventually, you get to a point where she needs to fly into a maelstrom because she's pulled into it, since this is (now) something that has been part of her life for her whole life.

Oops! Now she's dead! What the hell do we do now?! Uh.......she's back! How? Um........She's an.....angel? Yeah! She's an angel! There ya go!

There were some hints at religion and prophecy, but I never really saw some of the more heavy-handed religious elements coming into play. In fact, the show did take some pains to really call into question the truth of religion within the context of the show. Well, the Gods do XYZ. Except Six tells Baltar that there are no Gods, only one God. Except both seem to be coincidentally doing things to help the characters or fulfill prophecies. Except you have a lot of characters who also deny that they exist, right up until yet another prophecy is fulfilled and they start to question. Note that, however: QUESTION. I don't believe that, with the exception of Baltar, we ever saw anyone ACCEPT the Gods/God as having a DIRECT influence on the universe.

So then, at the end, when it's SO CLEARLY God/the Gods bumping the raptor nuke button, or resurrecting Starbuck or whatever...it just was too jarring. There hadn't been enough "No, seriously, the divine is happening NOW. Right HERE. All around you. It's not mere coincidence, it's not spooky supernatural stuff, it's not a simulation. It's really, seriously, a hands-on deity or pantheon or SOMETHING. But it ain't just a coinky-dink." I don't think the show did ENOUGH to lay that out. ESPECIALLY in the context of a science fiction show which, generally speaking, is not the realm of the supernatural or divine.



I guess this is my big gripe about Moore's style and how it influences both his work and his audience.

"There is a plan" is somethign that applies both to the Cylons and implicitly to the show as a whole. Now, "a plan" usually means something a little bit more elaborate than "Uh.....we'll nuke 'em. And god did it. Or something. I dunno, we'll figure it out later." Podcasts referred to a "series bible" which certainly would SUGGEST that the writers know where they're going in an overall sense. Apparently, however, "overall" is a very broad concept. "Overall", god did it. Blew up the colonies, influenced the cylons, killed off the bad cylons, brought back Starbuck, and pretty much acts as the answer to all the mysteries created in the series. Overall.

I suppose a more detailed overall plan is "The cylons will chase them, eventually they'll get to earth, and they'll find otu taht the cylons aren't that different and the war has to end peacefully or they'll all be destroyed. roll credits."

But I think that shows like this lead audiences to believe (A) that the writers have a WAY more detailed plan than THAT, and (B) that because they do, they are brilliant storytellers when, in fact, they're just kinda making it up as they go. Moore has specifically said in podcasts "I had no idea who'd end up beign the final five. I thought it'd be interesting if we made Tigh one, though, so we did it." That, my friends, is LOUSY plotting. That, my friends, is making **** up as you go.

I would have FAR less of a problem with this IF (A) the audience wasn't led to believe that there's a far more detailed plan going on behind the scenes, and (B) if the writers didn't ALLOW the audience to believe that sort of thing. Now, I didn't listen to every episode podcast, so maybe that WAS made clear. But to me, the podcasts should not be require reading to know that, wait, they're really just kinda making it up. The cylons have a plan, but...uh....we don't. And we don't know what THEIR plan is. Yet. We're getting to it.



So, again, I'll say Moore is brilliant at characterization and writing real believable people. He is, however, not so hot at planning his story out -- which is probably by design because that constrains him and makes his characters feel hemmed in by plot necessities. I admit that finding a good balance between plot and characters is HARD. But I think that is ultimately what separates the best writers from the merely pretty good ones. Moore's pretty good. No question. But he ain't the best.
 
I still believe that it's the Beings of Light, or at least an RDM version that is more plausible than the inner-dimensional beings that they were in the original series, that were responsible for a LOT of things... And I even suspect that Starbuck that we see from the mini-series through "Maelstrom" was a clone, and that the Starbuck that came back at "Crossroads" was, actually, a Being of Light with implanted memories of the Clone's experience and she was meant to get the people of the Fleet to Earth due to... um, circumstances and complications due to one of their own that pretty much... well... messed up the start of the whole thing, even before the tribe of Kobol.
 
@ CB2001

if you think this is going to be one of the great tv movies for BSG, get ready to be disappointed. the pace is slow, character moments are interesting and there are some nicely nuanced performances, but it feels disjointed, tacked on and sometimes is unsatisfying.

but I don't blame EJO, like I commented before, he doesn't have a great deal to work with here.

but the production values are good, the fx is excellent (we get to see other colonies than caprica which makes a really nice change) we also see some of the fall against the fleet which is also cool and the continuity making the new scenes fit what we've already seen on screen is excellent, kudos to the wardrobe bods on that one.

but don't expect it to be this amazing divine experience.
 
Can't say I'm surprised, really.

I mean, Razor was like that. Although, I suppose Razor was different in that it was entirely self-contained and was very much an intentional character study. It wasn't supposed to reveal great mysteries. Just "Oh, here's some other stuff that happened, too" as far as plot went. It DID set up the whole "Kara Thrace will lead humanity to its destruction." Which, um....didn't happen. Again, great plotting there...

But outside of that, Razor was entirely disposeable. Just a fun little side-romp and character study --- AND IT NEVER PURPORTED TO BE ANYTHING ELSE. The Plan, however, was (I thought) supposed to tie up some of the "What the hell was the plan anyway?" questions. Guess it doesn't really do that, though. But remember, folks. Per RDM's oft-repeated statements "It's the characters, stupid."
 
Lancer- Well, I'll wait to see the movie to make my judgements on it fully.

Solo- The line is, "She will lead humanity to it's end." Not destruction. And that sentence has been analyzed by a lot of fans. A lot have agreed that Starbuck HAS completed the prophecy: she lead humanity to it's end (of its journey from the 12 Colonies to our Earth).
 
you get some nice underside looks at the valkyrie class battlestars, one or two new ships in the RTF (oh, the basestars do something real interesting we've not seen before either)

@cb2001

fair enough. I must admit I was quite disappointed. considering what's been said about it I expected more. but if you watch for what it is, there's still quite a bit to take from it.

its just a shame we don't get any more BSG full stop so I'll take what I can get.

I just wish we'd seen a bit more of the fall, both space action and land based combat. but hey ho.
 
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