Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
glunark
Sr Member
That is pretty flawed logic, you can't just add the people that saw batman to the people that saw superman and just assume they don't share people.
Also you are adding up three batman films and one superman, and comparing it to two Captain americas, so not a massive shock that four films brought in more money than two, try adding in the avengers money into Caps and you might have a different story.
Most of the people that saw both of them separately are the same people, having them together dosnt guarantee twice the audience, its the same thing that kept Swatzanegga and Stallone from being in the same film until both their careas had already tailed off, they are essentially the same audience, you dont make more money by having them in one film, you make less money than having them in two separate films.
Also it dosnt matter how many icons you cram into one film, it its not any good, word of mouth will kill it dead.
Batman V superman could go the way of Alien V Predator.
And base it on just a batman movie then 1 movie tdk still made more than 2 captain America films.
Batman as that rewatchablily where capt didn't have it so much shown in the box office.
By putting batman and suoerman together will bring people to see it that wouldnt have gone before look at avengers not many really went to see Thor captain America hulk but all turned up for avengers.
Batman as that rewatchablily where capt didn't have it so much shown in the box office.
By putting batman and suoerman together will bring people to see it that wouldnt have gone before look at avengers not many really went to see Thor captain America hulk but all turned up for avengers.
What you have to think is in the meeting surely someone said 'moving the dates will show a sign of weakness'. Its nothing to do with pleasing fans. Its all to do with money. Less competition is more money from either side. They used their brain and didnt risk the movie tanking. Marvels just stronger at the minute. The box office doesnt mean anything in this respect. You can say that batman AND supes combined have more fans then Capt on his own. But how many of those fans are fans of both. And how many would rather watch Captain America first? Im not saying more WOULD. Theres just more to consider when both come out at the same time.
Who knows.
Why would marvel have to put anything extra in? Their movies are just better combined. Have you not been around to see the vast amount of films and sucess marvel has over dc in movies as a whole? Why should they even care? Especially with the new Guardians film.
Looking forward to this regardless. But I know which id watch first. Then again id walk straight into BvsS after leaving Cap anyway. Cinemas are braking my wallet with all these movies!
J
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
glunark
Sr Member
Do you have the figures to back that up?
Plus Dark knight rises was well established. Had two movies before it. I could easily say that the dark knight rises made more then the dark knight. So Capt 3 will make more then Capt 2 when you factor in extra hype with the rest of the MCU. Its nonsense and speculation at best.
Jaitea
Master Member
To tell you the truth, I have the Nolan Batman trilogy on BD, the last one wasn't that great,....and really I'd need to be in the right mood to watch any of them again,....the Man of Steel was VERY disappointing & laughable for the wrong reason, now with the slagging that Ben Afleck is getting (I personally don't mind him, his movies recently are very good) & the pure fun of the Marvel movies which are going from strength to strength, I'd say DC/Warners are extremely anxious that this film is a success......whereas Marvel know exactly where they are and where they are going
J
J
glunark
Sr Member
I do spreadsheets for a living, so it didnt take long for me to whip this one up, using the top 50 superhero grossing films.
- - - Updated - - -
BTW, had to lol a bit at Guardians of the Galaxy already beating the green lantern when it hasn't even been out for a full week yet.
| Marvel | DC | |||
| 1 | Marvel's The Avengers | BV | 623,357,910.00 | |
| 2 | The Dark Knight | WB | 534,858,444.00 | |
| 3 | The Dark Knight Rises | WB | 448,139,099.00 | |
| 4 | Iron Man 3 | BV | 409,013,994.00 | |
| 8 | Iron Man | Par. | 318,412,101.00 | |
| 9 | Iron Man 2 | Par. | 312,433,331.00 | |
| 10 | Man of Steel | WB | 291,045,518.00 | |
| 13 | Captain America: The Winter Soldier | BV | 259,322,890.00 | |
| 19 | Batman Begins | WB | 206,852,432.00 | |
| 20 | Thor: The Dark World | BV | 206,362,140.00 | |
| 24 | Thor | Par. | 181,030,624.00 | |
| 26 | Captain America: The First Avenger | Par. | 176,654,505.00 | |
| 39 | Guardians of the Galaxy | BV | 117,951,060.00 | |
| 40 | Green Lantern | WB | 116,601,172.00 | |
| 2,604,538,555.00 | 1,597,496,665.00 |
- - - Updated - - -
BTW, had to lol a bit at Guardians of the Galaxy already beating the green lantern when it hasn't even been out for a full week yet.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
I do love a good spreadsheet.
I have to assume the in-between missing films are along the like of X-Men and whatnot (technically a property that belongs to Marvel but isn't being done by their studios - though I guess there isn't a counterpart in DC because Warner Bros does all the DC films.)
I have to assume the in-between missing films are along the like of X-Men and whatnot (technically a property that belongs to Marvel but isn't being done by their studios - though I guess there isn't a counterpart in DC because Warner Bros does all the DC films.)
glunark
Sr Member
Not sure how well this will work, but here goes.
| Rank | Title | Studio | Marvel | DC | Other |
| 1 | Marvel's The Avengers | BV | $623,357,910 | ||
| 2 | The Dark Knight | WB | $534,858,444 | ||
| 3 | The Dark Knight Rises | WB | $448,139,099 | ||
| 4 | Iron Man 3 | BV | $409,013,994 | ||
| 5 | Spider-Man | Sony | $403,706,375 | ||
| 6 | Spider-Man 2 | Sony | $373,585,825 | ||
| 7 | Spider-Man 3 | Sony | $336,530,303 | ||
| 8 | Iron Man | Par. | $318,412,101 | ||
| 9 | Iron Man 2 | Par. | $312,433,331 | ||
| 10 | Man of Steel | WB | $291,045,518 | ||
| 11 | The Amazing Spider-Man | Sony | $262,030,663 | ||
| 12 | The Incredibles | BV | $261,441,092 | ||
| 13 | Captain America: The Winter Soldier | BV | $259,322,890 | ||
| 14 | Batman | WB | $251,188,924 | ||
| 15 | X-Men: The Last Stand | Fox | $234,362,462 | ||
| 16 | X-Men: Days of Future Past | Fox | $231,779,700 | ||
| 17 | Hancock | Sony | $227,946,274 | ||
| 18 | X2: X-Men United | Fox | $214,949,694 | ||
| 19 | Batman Begins | WB | $206,852,432 | ||
| 20 | Thor: The Dark World | BV | $206,362,140 | ||
| 21 | The Amazing Spider-Man 2 | Sony | $202,644,001 | ||
| 22 | Superman Returns | WB | $200,081,192 | ||
| 23 | Batman Forever | WB | $184,031,112 | ||
| 24 | Thor | Par. | $181,030,624 | ||
| 25 | X-Men Origins: Wolverine | Fox | $179,883,157 | ||
| 26 | Captain America: The First Avenger | Par. | $176,654,505 | ||
| 27 | Batman Returns | WB | $162,831,698 | ||
| 28 | X-Men | Fox | $157,299,717 | ||
| 29 | Fantastic Four | Fox | $154,696,080 | ||
| 30 | Megamind | P/DW | $148,415,853 | ||
| 31 | X-Men: First Class | Fox | $146,408,305 | ||
| 32 | Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles | NL | $135,265,915 | ||
| 33 | The Incredible Hulk | Uni. | $134,806,913 | ||
| 34 | Wanted | Uni. | $134,508,551 | ||
| 35 | Superman | WB | $134,218,018 | ||
| 36 | The Wolverine | Fox | $132,556,852 | ||
| 37 | Hulk | Uni. | $132,177,234 | ||
| 38 | Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer | Fox | $131,921,738 | ||
| 39 | Guardians of the Galaxy | BV | $117,951,060 | ||
| 40 | Green Lantern | WB | $116,601,172 | ||
| 41 | Ghost Rider | Sony | $115,802,596 | ||
| 42 | Superman II | WB | $108,185,706 | ||
| 43 | Watchmen | WB | $107,509,799 | ||
| 44 | Batman and Robin | WB | $107,325,195 | ||
| 45 | Daredevil | Fox | $102,543,518 | ||
| 46 | The Green Hornet | Sony | $98,780,042 | ||
| 47 | Unbreakable | BV | $95,011,339 | ||
| 48 | The Mask of Zorro | Sony | $94,095,523 | ||
| 49 | Blade II | NL | $82,348,319 | ||
| 50 | Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II | NL | $78,656,813 | ||
| Studio Totals | $6,334,572,007 | $2,951,648,351 | $1,175,341,360 |
JD
Master Member
Which speaks volumes as to why they're already talking about a possible reboot.
Spreadsheets are nice; but, they really don't paint a full picture about all this. You have to consider that the Dark Knight's #2 and #3 aren't affiliated with Man of Steel at #10 and that Raimi's Spidey at #'s 5, 6 and 7 have nothing to do with the Marvel Movie Universe at #1, 4, 8 and 9 - factor all that in Marvel films are ahead.
Which means nothing really when it comes to May 6, 2016.
The bottom line is DC flinched. DC flinched because it saw dollar signs... it may've won that opening weekend against Cap; but, neither would really win because that common release date would only suck dollars from both.
If Avengers 2 does nearly as well as its expected to - and judging by how well GotG has done already - and the respectable numbers that Cap 2 did... well, Cap 3 will most likely have a very strong lead in and some strong hype behind it.
On the other hand, it's Superman v Batman. With Wonder Woman. Even based on the disappointed that Man of Steel was, you have a lot of hype behind this. This could be made or broken by trailers, etc. As much as I love Affleck for Batman (the rumors of a 50 year old (+) Batman just seems a little too old), he does carry with him a lot of baggage and that could work against this film.
When it's all said and done... who knows. Too many variables.
Under Zach's hand, at the very least, BvS will look amazing ...
... 93% hero shots, 6% establishing shots, 1% credit sequence
- - - Updated - - -
... 93% hero shots, 6% establishing shots, 1% credit sequence
- - - Updated - - -
CGI film about a villain (Dreamworks?) ... very funny and worth watching.
JD
Master Member
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=105654
Crazy... I listen to this station on a regular basis and missed this.
Crazy... I listen to this station on a regular basis and missed this.
cboath
Master Member
I think you may have hit on why Marvel has been doing so well and DC really hasn't....The fun factor. Every Marvel flick since iron man has had a fairly good fun factor. DC has all been dark, edgy, etc. Now, that may not ring true with die-hards like you find here, but for the general populous, it very well could.
Also, as mentioned before, Marvel had a grand plan when they started and had they failed off the bat it probably would have died. I still see nothing be re-action from DC. Avengers was a mind-blowing success do they did whatever they could to try and get JLA on the screen. Plus, lets start with a superman no one recognizes and has little in common with the superman everyone knows and loves...not exactly getting off on the right foot. Maybe they pull it off big time, it remains to be seen, but nothing I've heard gives the impression they're trying to do anything other than cash in on the success of the avengers. The success of guardians makes me think the next thing from DC will be something about a group of non-earth based characters that most people haven't heard of....
Solo4114
Master Member
Well, in a sense, Marvel almost DID fail off the bat. Iron Man was an amazing opening move, but The Incredible Hulk was fairly mediocre, to be honest. That COULD have killed Marvel's Phase 1 approach, but it was followed up with better films and Iron Man did so well initially that it basically carried the franchise through it's weak moments.
DC's approach seems far more haphazard, and I, for one, am not at all enthused by the prospect of this upcoming film. First, I'm not interested in Batman FIGHTING Superman (I'd much rather watch them team up). Second, Man of Steel was...boring as crap, really, and its leads had basically zero chemistry with each other. I thought Henry Cavill was...eh...fine in the role, but otherwise I just found the film to be really dull. Honestly, I think Superman is a REALLY hard character to make a compelling film about, without also establishing a cadre of superpowered enemies where only his powers are a match. And given that the Nolan films have nothing to do with these newer films...I dunno. I just don't see this doing well. It will, again, have perfectly talented actors involved, but be a waste of their abilities because the story will be poorly done. (Much like Man of Steel)
DC's approach seems far more haphazard, and I, for one, am not at all enthused by the prospect of this upcoming film. First, I'm not interested in Batman FIGHTING Superman (I'd much rather watch them team up). Second, Man of Steel was...boring as crap, really, and its leads had basically zero chemistry with each other. I thought Henry Cavill was...eh...fine in the role, but otherwise I just found the film to be really dull. Honestly, I think Superman is a REALLY hard character to make a compelling film about, without also establishing a cadre of superpowered enemies where only his powers are a match. And given that the Nolan films have nothing to do with these newer films...I dunno. I just don't see this doing well. It will, again, have perfectly talented actors involved, but be a waste of their abilities because the story will be poorly done. (Much like Man of Steel)
I think Marvel's "formula" is actually pretty simple.
From the start they enlist writers and directors who actually like the source material and want to translate that enjoyment to the screen. In many cases directors grew up reading comics (Kenneth Brannaugh, Russo Brothers (who still collect), Joss Whedon (of course) ...). And they did stumble a bit in the beginning (e.g. Hulk films) but, as we can see, they're finding their stride. Marvel films at their best recreate a lot of the joy of reading comics - crossovers, humor, genre crossing (fantasy/sci-fi/suspense, team-ups, superhero conflicts...).
DC/Warner seems to approach it from the opposite direction. Their directors tend to be folks who have no background or history with comics ... some don't even like comics. (Tim Burton: "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book."; Christopher Nolan was clear that he never read comics; Bryan Singer (Superman Returns) doesn't read comics (when he filmed X-Men for Fox he even mandated that nobody read comics on the set. Bryan also abhors costumes); Martin Campbell was certainly not familiar with the Green Lantern comics ...) To that end they create genre films that just happen to involve superheroes.
I'm sure that DC/Warner felt comics need a veil of credibility in order to succeed as movies. The results have been mixed. The best of DC (e.g. TDK) then owes more to it's roots as a suspense/character-study than to the strength of the source material.
On the other hand a film like The Avengers could have only been made by a complete comic geek. The personalities and conflicts, the balance of power between superheroes and countless core concepts all exist as comic convention with no prior precedent in movies. A non-comic person could have never conceived of a movie like The Avengers - and, if tasked to do it, couldn't possibly get it right.
Still IMO Richard Donner's Superman is the best DC character film ever. Guess what? Donner writes comics.
To his credit Zack Snyder also reads comics. (Watchmen was really good while remaining true to the comic.) But he's got a lot riding on his shoulders for this next project. His films are gorgeous to look at but so narrowly styled that he'll need help if he's going to be the "ringleader" for the entire DC Universe in the same way that Joss (who is a savant with multiple overlapping stories, characters and ensemble casts) is doing for Marvel.
Marvel's basic formula is that comics can be translated faithfully onto film in the right hands, and superheroes don't need to be altered into some film auteur's personal vision (e.g. Burton Batman) in order to work on the big screen.
From the start they enlist writers and directors who actually like the source material and want to translate that enjoyment to the screen. In many cases directors grew up reading comics (Kenneth Brannaugh, Russo Brothers (who still collect), Joss Whedon (of course) ...). And they did stumble a bit in the beginning (e.g. Hulk films) but, as we can see, they're finding their stride. Marvel films at their best recreate a lot of the joy of reading comics - crossovers, humor, genre crossing (fantasy/sci-fi/suspense, team-ups, superhero conflicts...).
DC/Warner seems to approach it from the opposite direction. Their directors tend to be folks who have no background or history with comics ... some don't even like comics. (Tim Burton: "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book."; Christopher Nolan was clear that he never read comics; Bryan Singer (Superman Returns) doesn't read comics (when he filmed X-Men for Fox he even mandated that nobody read comics on the set. Bryan also abhors costumes); Martin Campbell was certainly not familiar with the Green Lantern comics ...) To that end they create genre films that just happen to involve superheroes.
I'm sure that DC/Warner felt comics need a veil of credibility in order to succeed as movies. The results have been mixed. The best of DC (e.g. TDK) then owes more to it's roots as a suspense/character-study than to the strength of the source material.
On the other hand a film like The Avengers could have only been made by a complete comic geek. The personalities and conflicts, the balance of power between superheroes and countless core concepts all exist as comic convention with no prior precedent in movies. A non-comic person could have never conceived of a movie like The Avengers - and, if tasked to do it, couldn't possibly get it right.
Still IMO Richard Donner's Superman is the best DC character film ever. Guess what? Donner writes comics.
To his credit Zack Snyder also reads comics. (Watchmen was really good while remaining true to the comic.) But he's got a lot riding on his shoulders for this next project. His films are gorgeous to look at but so narrowly styled that he'll need help if he's going to be the "ringleader" for the entire DC Universe in the same way that Joss (who is a savant with multiple overlapping stories, characters and ensemble casts) is doing for Marvel.
Marvel's basic formula is that comics can be translated faithfully onto film in the right hands, and superheroes don't need to be altered into some film auteur's personal vision (e.g. Burton Batman) in order to work on the big screen.
Last edited:
RougeAvenger81
Well-Known Member
I like the idea or the fact that DC is essentially taking that risk of not following the same formula that Marvel is. Yes, theirs is tried and true and works for them, but I for one look forward to seeing multiple heroes on scene continuously unlike Marvel does with stand alones. From what I've read or the rumors that float along in internet land, it seems as though once the Justice League comes together, why go separate ways? It makes sense that they would continue to help each other. Yes, a stand alone here and there is ok, but it seems as most of their films directions are going to be either JL or team ups with other members showing up in those films. I hope it works.
