Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Father]

DC should give up on the films and focus on tv. They're not going to catch Marvel, but they do have a proven track record of success on the small screen.

Are you talking about actual shows or the DC Universe animated movies. The animated movies and most of their TV shows are awesome. Young Justice is probably one of my favorite cartoons in a long time. I even liked that better than Justice League. The animation/art was top notch.

The first Teen Titans I really liked despite the goofy Japanese style animation. Teen Titans Go I like a little less because the animation is even worse. But me and my family get a good laugh out of it.

Batman Brave and the Bold was ok... mainly because it was campy and I got the jokes aimed at the Superfriends generation.

All of the Batman cartoons have pretty much been good. I haven't started watching the newest one but it looks decent.

The Green Lantern animated show was even good. Not great but good enough.

Not sure which shows you're talking about besides Smallville and the Green Arrow one. I liked Smallville but got tiired of them dragging it out. I hated all of the shameless product endorsements in every episode (more in the later seasons). That alone seriously put me off. I think what jumped the shark was a whole episode dedicated to Stride gum. Apparently I'm not alone on [video]http://scifi.about.com/b/2008/03/16/smallville-product-placement-hits-new-low.htm[/video].

I haven't watched Arrow although it looks enough like Smallville that I'd give it a chance with extreme pesimism.

 

[jcoffman99]

I would say both the animated and live action. They've always had some kind of quality program on that appeals to all ages. Their films, with the exception of the recent Batman films, have not been as consistent.

 

[Father]

Which films?
MOS was great. Maybe not a fanboy fave but it did well enough to continue the franchise.
Dark Knight Rises was poop.
Green Lantern was meh.
That's about it as far as the Justice League members and prime heroes. They haven't really tried to go any further than Batman and Superman for the last 3-4 decades...

Every other DC live action movie has been the obscure titles/characters like
Constantine - I liked it
The Losers - couldn't stand more than 10 minutes of it
V for Vendetta - I liked it
Watchmen - awesome
Jonah Hex - WTF
League of Extraordinary Gentleman - decent

 

[JD]

Rumors I'm hearing has construction on the sets here in Michigan due to set any second now - Transformers 4 had some last minute reshoots but as soon as that's wrapped - Batman vs. Superman has the entire Pontiac Studio (and more) booked with filming supposed to start in January.

 

[jcoffman99]

Which films?
MOS was great. Maybe not a fanboy fave but it did well enough to continue the franchise.
Dark Knight Rises was poop.
Green Lantern was meh.
That's about it as far as the Justice League members and prime heroes. They haven't really tried to go any further than Batman and Superman for the last 3-4 decades...

Every other DC live action movie has been the obscure titles/characters like
Constantine - I liked it
The Losers - couldn't stand more than 10 minutes of it
V for Vendetta - I liked it
Watchmen - awesome
Jonah Hex - WTF
League of Extraordinary Gentleman - decent

I would say we disagree on just about all of them.
MOS was terrible. It's one of those like the Phantom Menace that once the dust settles, it will be looked at much differently.
Dark Knight- Appealed to a huge audience. Most people liked it.
Green Lantern- Terrible

The others you mentioned are exactly what you said, obscure. The opposite of what Marvel did. They started with the big ones, built the brand and now have the credibility to branch out to lesser known characters.

Every one of the films you listed as obscure was terrible with the exception of V for Vendetta.

However, DC has had multiple long running television shows on the air for at least 15 years. I remember watching BTAS in college. It was almost required viewing.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

I liked MOS, and liked most of Nolan's Trilogy. Rises is one of those movies I really wanted to like, but the more you watch it the more you are like, "WTF". So here is my big issue/s that I hope they correct with this film.

I agree MOS could have used more character building and a little bit better story, but they pulled it off well enough for me to like it and want more. I hope they give Superman a little more character build up as well as Batman since he is in it. I'm not talking origin, I mean mention some of the things he has done, little easter eggs, or whatever you care to call it, but focus on the characters. Get into the moral issues Superman has brought up now that he has killed, Batman's issues with that etc.

Lastly, and this was my biggest issue with TDKR, can we get a better story than I'm going to destroy the world/Gotham/Metropolis? The joker created anarchy in Gotham and tore it apart. Ras Al Gul tried to destroy gotham in a cool way, but then we simply repeat the same exact thing with Bane wanting to uncreatively blow up gotham after letting people riot for 3 months. I understand why the end of the world scenario was needed in MOS so the world would see and know who superman was, but I truly hope they can do more with the story then a destroy Metropolis type thing. Attack the characters themselves and especially their morals. That could still be a great movie with some fighting etc. based on their big differences of kill/no kill, but it makes a better movie because it is not all resting on action. I simply want STORY.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

To add, a lot of people in the world see or would see heroes in costumes as villians. Especially batman. He is portrayed as a villain quite a bit. Make the movie personal. Attack their character and have the villains goals be to make them the bad guy or appear that way to the world or turn everyone against them. Just my rant. I know destruction and end of the world stuff happens a lot in the comics, but it's not all there is to pull from.

 

[Father]

To add, a lot of people in the world see or would see heroes in costumes as villians. Especially batman. He is portrayed as a villain quite a bit. Make the movie personal. Attack their character and have the villains goals be to make them the bad guy or appear that way to the world or turn everyone against them. Just my rant. I know destruction and end of the world stuff happens a lot in the comics, but it's not all there is to pull from.

That's kind of what happened in TDK though... The Joker forced Batman to have to take the blame for Dents actions in order to preserve everything he worked for, thereby becoming the villain in the public eye. The Joker had everything planned out to the end... which is why he was such an awesome villain. YOu simply couldn't keep up with everything he was doing because he had so many different plans in action at one time.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

That's kind of what happened in TDK though... The Joker forced Batman to have to take the blame for Dents actions in order to preserve everything he worked for, thereby becoming the villain in the public eye. The Joker had everything planned out to the end... which is why he was such an awesome villain. YOu simply couldn't keep up with everything he was doing because he had so many different plans in action at one time.

That's a good point. I guess mine is simply wanting something besides the "destroy the world" type film. Just want more story and character development.

 

[Father]

I would say we disagree on just about all of them.
MOS was terrible. It's one of those like the Phantom Menace that once the dust settles, it will be looked at much differently.
Dark Knight- Appealed to a huge audience. Most people liked it.
Green Lantern- Terrible

The others you mentioned are exactly what you said, obscure. The opposite of what Marvel did. They started with the big ones, built the brand and now have the credibility to branch out to lesser known characters.

Every one of the films you listed as obscure was terrible with the exception of V for Vendetta.

However, DC has had multiple long running television shows on the air for at least 15 years. I remember watching BTAS in college. It was almost required viewing.

There's nothing you can compare to Phantom Menace. That was a straight up travesty... with the other two trailing close behind. Nothing more than a showcase of special effects.

Green Lantern could have been better, but part of the problem is the concept is hard to translate to film because at it's core it's pretty stupid to begind with... A guy has an awesome power ring... and usually uses it to make giant baseball equipment (how many times has he used a giant green bat or giant green catchers mit). I liked the darker stories of GL that came much more recent... Ryan Reynolds was also a horrible choice for that movie.

Agreed though... aside from Blade, Marvel has pretty much run with their flagship characters right from the start. X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, etc. DC has only used two of their trademark characters ad nauseum.

That's a good point. I guess mine is simply wanting something besides the "destroy the world" type film. Just want more story and character development.

I'm with you. I like the idea of the villains trying to destroy the hero, not the city or whatever it is the hero is protecting. I'd love to see a movie with Doomsday... Not sure how much story would be there though... just a couple hour long pummeling.

I like character development but not at the detriment of the main point of seeing superhero movie: to see them do super things. I don't want a love story like half of Superman 2, where not only does he fumble around with that hag Margot Kidder... but he gave up all his powers for her? BLAH!!!

Most stories are so played out and recycled though... I can only take so much damsel in distress/save the kid(s)/pets before I just tune it out. How about something new for a chance. That's one of the reasons Watchmen worked for me... it was different. It wasn't just heroes running around punching people and saving the day.

 

[Jannix Quinn]

They need to do a serial killer story like Seven, except the detective is Batman.

 

[Father]

Gotham by Gaslight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They need to do a serial killer story like Seven, except the detective is Batman.

Gotham by Gaslight

 

[Jet Beetle]

There's nothing you can compare to Phantom Menace. That was a straight up travesty... with the other two trailing close behind. Nothing more than a showcase of special effects.

Yet ALOT I'd say most on these boards championed it when it came out -- you couldn't say anything bad about it or you'd feel the wrath . The problem with Man of Steel is and Superman is you simply can't top the Donner film - and they haven't. I watched MOS the other day in a screening here and fell asleep - woke up sometime around when Lois finds the spaceship and in my half awake state realized something else about the movie -- I never really felt like I was watching Superman - there's a feeling the Superman films give you all the way back to Kirk Allen that this movie simply did not have. It's a prime example of "going dark" only because they have no ideas. When a top concern is his red shorts -- there's a problem.


[/QUOTE]Green Lantern could have been better, but part of the problem is the concept is hard to translate to film because at it's core it's pretty stupid to begind with... A guy has an awesome power ring... and usually uses it to make giant baseball equipment (how many times has he used a giant green bat or giant green catchers mit). I liked the darker stories of GL that came much more recent... Ryan Reynolds was also a horrible choice for that movie. [/QUOTE]

That wasn't the problem -- Green Lantern or Lensmen or the Galactic Police is a great concept - They just introduced everything too quickly -- audiences need time to digest the fantastic - Hal should have found the ring unaware where it came from. He discovers it can do anything. Hal goes on a saving spree - (same as Superman and Iron Man) stays hidden, Hal has nightmares where he is seduced by the power -- sees himself taking over the world. Hal is attacked by a yellow armored alien who is part of a group who killed Abin Sir - Hal discovers the ring has a weakness. The yellow warriors are alerted to the ring's location - they journey to Earth to take the ring. Hal's ring runs out of power - he defeats to the group on his own. The Green Lantern Core arrive ask for the ring. Hal feels underappreciated -- risked his life defending the ring, what if these aliens return? Incensed, Hal removes the ring and tosses it at the core, starts to walk away. They call him back and tell him to keep it. They wanted to know he could relinquish the power if need be. He tells them it's out of power. They fly Hal to OA where he takes the oath and joins the core. The End.
How hard would that be?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Father]

The problem with Man of Steel is and Superman is you simply can't top the Donner film - and they haven't.

Anyting can be done better. The Donner film was good. No debating that. But to close the door on the possibility that anything better could be made is crazy.

That wasn't the problem -- Green Lantern or Lensmen or the Galactic Police is a great concept - They just introduced everything too quickly -- They fly Hal to OA where he takes the oath and joins the core. The End.
How hard would that be?

Agree to disagree

 

[Jet Beetle]

Anyting can be done better. The Donner film was good. No debating that. But to close the door on the possibility that anything better could be made is crazy.

I didn't say it couldn't be done - I just haven't done it. Nor do I think they have any idea how to.

 

[JD]

I don't even think the Donner film was all that great... it was better than MoS. I don't think Superman's come close to being captured in a great way on the movie screen yet.

I do love the 50's George Reeves Superman.

 

[nitrox]

I would say we disagree on just about all of them.
MOS was terrible. It's one of those like the Phantom Menace that once the dust settles, it will be looked at much differently.

Completely agree with you, I felt supremely let down by that movie due to the fact that the trailer was nothing short of fantastic. However the mood and tone of the trailer was nowhere to be found in the movie, it felt like I'd fell victim to a huge bait and switch scam.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

I disagree. I like MOS more and more every time I watch it. I absolutely HATE TPM more and more every time I watch it.

 

[JD]

The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars movie, PG-rated kids movie - one that I can let my nephew watch and one that I can enjoy as well. The action scenes are brilliant executed and it's bright and well shot.

Man of Steel is a comic book movie, rated PG-13 movie that doesn't seem to know who it's geared towards - one that my nephew can't watch and one that I don't enjoy on any level. A film that has a few unnecessary curse words thrown in (they don't help the story at all) and whose action scenes that just seem unnecessarily and uncharacteristically violent and it's dark, not very bright and the action scenes seem muddy at best.

I've long championed the Star Wars prequels and generally think that the nay-sayers can't or don't look at these films through the eyes of the kids they're aimed at. Yes, those films have some issues (personally, I like dislike Attack of the Clones much more than Phantom Menace - but feel most of them are in the same vein as Return of the Jedi). My nieces and nephew love these films.

...and well, Man of Steel - ick, just ick.

 

[Robiwon]

Where is this "Pontiac Studio"? I'm from Pontiac Mich. A friend that does landscaping did the yard of the house that were housing the T4 cars between filming and got some good shots of them in the garage.