Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Anything to get the real characters back. But I've resigned myself that a chance at live action for these characters as I know them is likely a decade away now.
KrangPrime
Master Member
same here for a proper ninja turtles reboot., assuming it survives Bay.
Mektar
Sr Member
Unfortenatly the stuff that he makes tend to not only survive but actually do well. Just looking at the abominations that are transformers and the amount they made. While turtles wasnt that much of a succes i can see the 2nd one doing alot better which in the end is all they look after (box office)
As for getting the real characters back. Does any1 actually know how much involvement geoff had seeing as he is one of the few who actually worked at dc comics? I mean surely he of all people should know how to treat these properties and notice how much of a mess it was storywise.
Someone mentioned Justice League?
Here yah go
Here yah go
KrangPrime
Master Member
Supposedly the movie division hates the comic/animated division. if that little rumor is true, I doubt that comic guys really had all that much say in what went on.
Just like Dan and Ivan trying to keep FeigBusters on track. or Kevin Eastman having 'involvement' with Bay Turtles.
My guess is these guys are there to make suggestions the movie studios could easily ignore...just to make it look like they are trying to respect the source material.
- - - Updated - - -
Someone mentioned Justice League?
Here yah go
http://thumbnails115.imagebam.com/47862/d71b9b478619811.jpg
Damn Smallville.
Set Super hero shows back ten years by turning it into a teen soap opera. can't believe I stuck through the entire series.
:lol
It had its highlights. But yeah the soap aspect did suck, a lot. And going 36 seasons of having Clark being to shy to tell Lana "I love you" did not help.
This is something that... *whooo* *thinks how best to put it that isn't rage-y*
In gaming, I totally am PvE, rather than PvP. I am a coalition/community-builder. I believe in the power of communication and negotiation to solve most problems -- but also overwhelming force when talk doesn't work. I hatehateHATE story premises that are built around either the main characters being stupid or the main characters having a failure to communicate (or both, often the latter brought on by the former). I want to see stories of intelligent heroes being aware, taking risks with their feelings or personal safety because of hope or the need to do the right thing or whatever. A good writer can come up with many interesting stories where the hero(es) have clearly and engaginly said what's going on, and then -- alone or in the duo/trio/team that results from people actually talking -- go(es) out to face the unreasoning, intractable foe -- animate or inanimate, on whatever scale.
Sure, let there be misunderstandings and arguments and differences of worldview, but let them be as a result of them actually talking than not. Iron Man and Iron Man 3 (for all the latter's other flaws) are good examples of this. Tony takes the risks of opening up and confiding in people, he finds strength in weakness, he tries to talk people down first... And Iron Man 2 is on my list of movies that could have been great if they had done that. As I said elsewhere a while back, I kept waiting, after Tony got his dad's records and had researched his adversary, for him to get across to Ivan that he knew who he was now, he knew how their respective dads had been associated and what happened, how he wasn't involved and killing him wouldn't get revenge on his dad, and tell him he's too brilliant to waste it on vengeance and offer him a job the way he did Bruce. I wanted to see Ivan follow the arc of my favorite Crimson Dynamo from the comics -- hated Iron Man, eventually realized he was on the wrong side, and became one of Tony's fiercest allies. One of my favorite quotes is from Abraham Lincoln: "The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend."
So yeah. The DC live-action division is riddled with problems from top to bottom. Having their TV and movie universes separate is a misstep. Having the characters so far divorced from their essential selves is a misstep. Having stories that would be much shorter (or entirely different) if people just talked is a misstep. Et cetera, ad very much nauseum.
--Jonah
In short: "less is more"
As I sat completely alone in the theater watching Iron Man 2, one thought kept popping up in my mind. "Wow, this villain in one dimensional", I did not get any indication of any depth to him. A good villain is one you can relate to, at least a little. Superman vs Doomsday, how many would be able to relate to Doomsday?
In a way, even a character like Half-Life's Gordon Freeman communicates better than Clark did on "Smallville". :lol Funny thing is Gordon never says a word. The Nolan Batman didn't take much risks with his feelings either. Might have contributed to Rachel's death.
I too prefer PvE - Player vs. Environment in games. Mostly because co-operation tends to be more fun. But also since there are soooo many out there just love killing their team mates :facepalm
Fawbish
Sr Member
If anyone is willing to take time to listen to a sympathetic viewpoint that has some quite insightful thoughts, the podcast I have listened to lately has some really excellent deep cuts into this film, which stems from the creator having seen Man of Steel, and ending up wanting to deconstruct it, and found that it stood up to fierce criticism really well - that is, not to push what you want it to be and start from that viewpoint, but rather see what depth of character you can discover by extracting what is told or shown to us in the film (as we should with any film to be fair) - one I listened to yesterday was an extraction based solely on the fishing boat/oil rig scene, and it's insane how much can be taken out of it once thought is applied.
I initially watched Man of Steel after being hyped for so long (and to me, Returns had it's merits but was ultimately a little stale, however it does deliver two or more of my favourite scenes of any Superman movie. I walked out of MoS elated but with quite a few nagging issues that I couldn't quite pin down. It took me a long time to get around to watching it again as I wasn't as interested in film analysis and discussion back then. And then I discovered that after multiple viewings, and continuing to let the story being told to take precedent, I fell more and more in love with it. It was actually quite profound to have my thought process altered, and it has led into more enjoyment (and less enjoyment in some cases) of most other films (for instance, Ex Machina...what a brilliant film that is)
The creator hasn't done a full series on Batman v Superman (yet, hopefully) as I think he is slightly overwhelmed with where to go with the amount to be analysed, but he starts out with a 1h40m where he discusses chiefly Lex Luthors motivations, but touches on many points during the film.
It isn't to change anyone's mind, it's simply for anyone that would like to see another viewpoint, is interested in well thought out, really quite eloquent analysis regarding the DCEU etc. He had issues with the film as well, and I don't think it stands up as well to criticisms as MoS does, which just about pars up with my own thoughts so far.
Again - not here to change people's minds - simply that I find it really enjoyable to go over these films in such depth. We deconstruct films for years in advance, it seems only fitting we do that after it has been given to us! haha.
Lex Luthor podcast - http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/42-understanding-lex-luthor/
I initially watched Man of Steel after being hyped for so long (and to me, Returns had it's merits but was ultimately a little stale, however it does deliver two or more of my favourite scenes of any Superman movie. I walked out of MoS elated but with quite a few nagging issues that I couldn't quite pin down. It took me a long time to get around to watching it again as I wasn't as interested in film analysis and discussion back then. And then I discovered that after multiple viewings, and continuing to let the story being told to take precedent, I fell more and more in love with it. It was actually quite profound to have my thought process altered, and it has led into more enjoyment (and less enjoyment in some cases) of most other films (for instance, Ex Machina...what a brilliant film that is)
The creator hasn't done a full series on Batman v Superman (yet, hopefully) as I think he is slightly overwhelmed with where to go with the amount to be analysed, but he starts out with a 1h40m where he discusses chiefly Lex Luthors motivations, but touches on many points during the film.
It isn't to change anyone's mind, it's simply for anyone that would like to see another viewpoint, is interested in well thought out, really quite eloquent analysis regarding the DCEU etc. He had issues with the film as well, and I don't think it stands up as well to criticisms as MoS does, which just about pars up with my own thoughts so far.
Again - not here to change people's minds - simply that I find it really enjoyable to go over these films in such depth. We deconstruct films for years in advance, it seems only fitting we do that after it has been given to us! haha.
Lex Luthor podcast - http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/42-understanding-lex-luthor/
KrangPrime
Master Member
I just rewatched the whole of Justice League Unlimited. Because of the bigger cast of rotating characters, I think it flows a little better than justice league.
That last episode by Dwayne McDuffie proves why the battles and the whole of Batman VRS Superman is so boring.
All we get in a big budget motion picture that cost who knows how much to make is....what?
A few shots of Superman floating. him pulling a boat to saftey. and Batman/Superman/Wonderwoman doing nothing but 'super punching' the main villain to death.
Yet, in one half hour show...what did we get?
Giganta swatting a bunch of para demons. Wonder Woman flying a tank into another flying tank. Green Lantern launching a alien drill into space.
Darksied DESTROYING the daily planet by smashing superman through it with the globe. Seeing Lex Luthor back in his 'power suit' still gives me chills every time I see it, because 'business' lex luthor hadn't been seen since the animated series...yet it struck enough of a chord with someone that they thought enough to bring it back for his final lines.
It's that level of planning and fun and just plane........we know what we're doing-ness.... that the comics and live action division just hasn't been able to nail.
Why?
That last episode by Dwayne McDuffie proves why the battles and the whole of Batman VRS Superman is so boring.
All we get in a big budget motion picture that cost who knows how much to make is....what?
A few shots of Superman floating. him pulling a boat to saftey. and Batman/Superman/Wonderwoman doing nothing but 'super punching' the main villain to death.
Yet, in one half hour show...what did we get?
Giganta swatting a bunch of para demons. Wonder Woman flying a tank into another flying tank. Green Lantern launching a alien drill into space.
Darksied DESTROYING the daily planet by smashing superman through it with the globe. Seeing Lex Luthor back in his 'power suit' still gives me chills every time I see it, because 'business' lex luthor hadn't been seen since the animated series...yet it struck enough of a chord with someone that they thought enough to bring it back for his final lines.
It's that level of planning and fun and just plane........we know what we're doing-ness.... that the comics and live action division just hasn't been able to nail.
Why?
Fawbish
Sr Member
Because Justice League is next year? And almost everything you're describing is a fight against Darkseid?
In BvS alone in terms of action you have different viewpoint of Supes vs Zod, Bruce saves girl, Supes saves Lois, Batman evades police, space rocket save, day of the dead save, Knightmare sequence, Batmobile chase, and I don't care what anyone says, the Batman vs Superman fight was technically fantastic and physically brilliant. Well shot, well choreographed, believable, brutal and tangible. Batman warehouse scene, Doomsday fight was great - not the best villain fight I've seen but nothing to complain over. It was used well, and Wonder Woman was great. Batman shouldn't be able to take a hit from Doomsday at all, and he doesn't, which is perfect, they emphasize his human side in that fight. He evades and lures. That is a great many action sequences over the course of a film, and yet people still claimed that there was too much setup and thematic dialogue etc. lol.
I absolutely never want to see Lex Luthor (in any live incarnation) in a power suit. It would be ridiculously corny in live action - I hated that they did it in the first place. Lex is an intellectual villain, not a brawler. When he merged with Brainiac - now that was OK, that was acceptable that he would then have a body that could go toe to toe with our heroes.
Speaking of which...would anyone care to see the Flash taking on "Luthiac" (please god don't let them use that name) in the same manner on screen? That could be really powerful.
It works in the animated versions, because they have a lot, lot, lot looser set of rules to play with.
Snikt for instance, the cardboard speech - I absolutely love that speech. It embodies Clarks ego and mannerisms and internal fears in a powerful, positive way. And then there is a kick ass moment where we cheer for our hero! And then 4 or 5 buildings are destroyed, and a major downtown area has huge destruction - do you see where that might be familiar? In cartoons, we don't care about the death toll.
When Darkseid came to earth and killed ONE person, Superman took him to task for it. But in what live action incarnation would that work? Darkseid would not kill only one person, not even close. So the storylines have to be different, they have to be more visceral and more inline with our world views.
Last edited:
Snikt
Sr Member
To be honest, I wouldnt mind Lex in his power suit, as long as it was designed right, and didnt have that stupid color scheme. I liked flash in the show, but I was never really into flash the character in the comic books. I kind of thought his power base was kind of dumb. Its like he can do anything cause...speed? I dunno. Just never got into him. Youre right, they do have a lot looser rules to play with, and they dont have a studio breathing down their necks to make a billion dollars.
Yeah! Thats the one! Exactly, because we know its a cartoon. When you see actual(fake of course) buildings being toppled, it conjures up images of 9/11 etc, and it makes people emotional.
Well, it was Turpin, and he made an example out of him. Just to show Superman he could. I agree with that, but it was just handled so wrong. I think the scene that bothers me the most in BvS is when congress or the senate or whatever gets blown up and clark just stands there in the flames. God that movie sucked :lol
Yeah! Thats the one! Exactly, because we know its a cartoon. When you see actual(fake of course) buildings being toppled, it conjures up images of 9/11 etc, and it makes people emotional.
Well, it was Turpin, and he made an example out of him. Just to show Superman he could. I agree with that, but it was just handled so wrong. I think the scene that bothers me the most in BvS is when congress or the senate or whatever gets blown up and clark just stands there in the flames. God that movie sucked :lol
Fawbish
Sr Member
And yet it is one of my favourite scenes haha.
Given the same situation, what would you have had Superman do? Is it literally because he was still in the flames? That was shown not long after it happened, it wasn't like he was stood there for 30 minutes just soaking in some heat.
He was absolutely gutted, you could see it on his face. Guilt, sorrow, absolute sadness and he was verging on tears because he didn't look for the bomb, because he trusted humanity. It was a powerful scene.
Snikt
Sr Member
Well, personally I would have him do a quick scan of the room with his X-ray vision, disarm the bomb and be like "do you guys trust me now?" and had him save the day. Cause you know...Superman. Thats what I mean about the sloppiness of the film makers, they can have him hear a gun cock to lois's head, but he doesnt suspect anything about a senate hearing? See, I didnt see all those emotions you said that he conveyed in that scene. The look on his face was like he spilled a jug of kool-aid on his carpet. Like "awww man". And why would he trust humanity? Does anyone trust humanity? If he learned anything from when he was a kid to an adult, and the 18 months between Zod and the events of BvS, is NOT to trust humanity. Thats the thing though, he isnt supposed to trust humanity, he is supposed to be their guiding light. Even Jor-el says something along those lines in MoS, is that he is the beacon of hope, and he stands resolute in his beliefs to do good. Fight the never ending battle...Not whine about how people dont stay good or whatever, I forgot what the line was. Like Dan said, he didnt embody the character of Superman. Seriously, Zach Snyder just doesnt get the character. Bryan Singer sort of did, but the story was lame (kid) and he put all the gay undertones on it because Singer is gay. Aside from a few comics, there hasnt been a good interpretation of Superman since the Donner movies.
Mektar
Sr Member
the wheelchair was prob lead lined.
I wasnt a fan of the amount of politic involvement in the movie seeing as i wanted them to go more into seeing him become the superman we want rather then have him still be conflicted with soo many stuff. However he did do good in that scene for what he was given and he is actually doing good overall with what he is given. Might just be more that you just hate it alot
Agree for once
Agree with you that Snyder is an issue which i dint mind that much in MoS but now has tho with BvS. And Singer i was also not a fan of returns altho dont really see what being gay has to do with that.
Snikt
Sr Member
Haha mektar! Thats the thing though, then that would tip him off even MORE if it was lead lined! If you were trying to be funny though that was a good one.
I agree with that, it reminded me of the Star Wars prequels with trade negotiations and stuff. But if they were trying to be "realistic" then yeah, that probably would happen. It would have been a way bigger deal than what happened in the movie. Dont get me wrong, I like Cavill as Superman, I feel as though he caught a ****ty break on the director.
Hell yeah! :lol
He said in an interview, that he wanted Superman to be an outsider and to show what it feels like to not fit in. Singer said that he had to do the same thing growing up because he was gay in a small town. I read it in an interview a long time ago. I didnt really think about it that much, I just thought he was kind of somber, which was a little out of character, but not THAT noticeable. Then when Singer said that, I was like "ok that makes sense". I get putting your personal stamp on things, but to take a character like Superman and do that to, its kind of a little overboard. But that was the least of that movies issues. The airplane scene however was glorious. But badmouthing Superman Returns is a whole other can of worms :lol
I agree with that, it reminded me of the Star Wars prequels with trade negotiations and stuff. But if they were trying to be "realistic" then yeah, that probably would happen. It would have been a way bigger deal than what happened in the movie. Dont get me wrong, I like Cavill as Superman, I feel as though he caught a ****ty break on the director.
Hell yeah! :lol
He said in an interview, that he wanted Superman to be an outsider and to show what it feels like to not fit in. Singer said that he had to do the same thing growing up because he was gay in a small town. I read it in an interview a long time ago. I didnt really think about it that much, I just thought he was kind of somber, which was a little out of character, but not THAT noticeable. Then when Singer said that, I was like "ok that makes sense". I get putting your personal stamp on things, but to take a character like Superman and do that to, its kind of a little overboard. But that was the least of that movies issues. The airplane scene however was glorious. But badmouthing Superman Returns is a whole other can of worms :lol
Fawbish
Sr Member
It was never explicit that Clark was not already nearby in Africa. I believe they have said something along the lines of Smallville from Metropolis is about the range of his hearing, but if there are tons of noise around in a city, he gets overwhelmed (a scene that we will see in the Ultimate cut, where he tries to hear Martha but hears a whole host of horrible things happening in the city, looking forward to that). I choose to believe that he was hanging out nearby due to knowing that Lois was on a dangerous case. No doubt instead of seeing a caring partner, people will complain that that would be stalkerish.
Should he scan every room he walks into? Should he scan the city constantly, invading peoples privacy just in case? And even if he scans the room - would you be able to see the difference in a bomb versus the internal wiring and battery of a wheelchair? Has Clark been shown to know the ins and outs of electronic wiring? It isn't a cartoon...
The whole point of Superman is that he continues to trust and believe in humanity despite how awful we are in some respects. That is why he has to leave and reflect on it all. He has been Superman for 18 months or so, saving people actively and establishing himself as a reporter who wants to write the real articles that matter. He is revered, but he has not given a public statement or interview as far as we know - they refer to the Capitol arrival of Superman as "historical". That indicates that a lot of humanity are in his corner, a lot of them do see him as a good guy, ergo, trust. It might be naive, but Superman has always come across that way - he is literally referred to as a boyscout in most mediums! There is hope, he is leading by example. Jor-El says that Kal will give the people of earth an ideal to strive towards. That isn't an easy interpretation. The best Clark knows how is to show them that if you /can/ help someone in need, you /should/. That is what he does. The "whining" you refer to is Clark, whose mother's life is literally on the line, and getting out of this situation requires that he convince the one vigilante who has made it clear that he hates him, whom he knows is cruel and tramples on civil liberties. How would you feel in that situation? He say's to Lois, with such a pained expression, that "no one stays good in this world" - we are almost at the bottom of Supermans resolve here. No matter where he turns, there is death, or bad things happening. But he doesn't stop, he doesn't give up. With his dying breath he pleads that Batman save his mother.
Even with your explanation, the gay thing has no relevance. If that is how Singer related to the character, that's fine - Clark/Superman is an outsider. He is an alien among humans with no peers. Not one single person on the planet has had similar life experience with which to bond over. It is a totally believable and relevant trait, and makes him relatable. Which ironically is what a lot of detractors complain about "Superman isn't relatable." We not have possibly one of the most relatable Supermen on our big screens, and people complain that he has genuine emotions. It's mental.
Similar threads
