Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

Yeah, they are focusing on it, because it needs to be in order to be profitable. Why else release a trailer for SS with Batman in it? Because Batman was the only decent take away from BvS. They arent going to abandon their only universe building franchise, WB needs the money, something to count on. They are trying with the new Harry Potter property, but thats still a shot in the dark. All their big franchises have ended, and they need something for the long run. I hope Cap 3 beats everything, because the acting in the trailer alone is better than anything DC has put out in my opinion.

I also think dascoyne hit the nail on the head. I want to see another stand alone Superman movie, but someone that has vision, understands and cares for the character, unlike Snyder. The guy is such a ****** man... :facepalm


yep,

at this point they are just shooting in the dark and hoping something other than batman works.

I was thinking this just an hour ago looking at the BvS trailer. I WANT another live action superman that captures the feel of the reeves films.
I don't like this superman, I think the kent parents parenting skills and values suck...I didn't care for him when he died.

I want another superman film, just not something directed by zack snyder.


As for SS.....with all the weird designs they have going on in that movie, where characters are in name only, i'm not even going to bother giving that one a chance. any time I see snookie joker with his palpatine like laugh on screen, I just want to wretch at the ugliness.


It just annoys me that no one at DC or WB with enough power can see what we're seeing and say 'look, enough is enough. here is the clear vision..lets go with this'...
are all the dc/wb execs incompetent?
 
I'm not the first to say that DC/Warner is squandering the advantages they have in the superhero film market. Their two principal properties are forever icons of popular culture throughout the US and possibly the world. Even as they churn out Superman and Batman films that have mixed or negative reviews and feedback I have absolutely no doubt that the public would be quick to forgive and forget if they just did things right. That's an advantage Marvel still doesn't enjoy (yet?). If The Avengers or the last Ant-Man film were terrible then Marvel doesn't get much of a second chance with those properties - they'd have to work hard to convince people that the next Avengers or Ant-Man would be worth watching.

Conversely, if DC were to reboot the entire DCCU today, cancel plans for the roster of films they had planned, and start all over again with a truly great Superman film next year people will reward them with success. The general public doesn't yet know if they want to see Dr. Strange or The Black Panther. The majority of public viewers will always want to see a good Superman film that feels like ... Superman. That is true today and will be true 50 years from today.

Keep Superman classic. Introduce modern, "edgy" concepts through other characters. When you form the JLA then you will have interesting contrasts and comparisons. But a classic Superman will keep things grounded.
 
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Hey, remember when Superman was laboriously dragging that ship across the ice, its too bad he forgot he has ice melting heat vision.
 
Keep Superman classic. Introduce modern, "edgy" concepts through other characters. When you form the JLA then you will have interesting contrasts and comparisons. But a classic Superman will keep things grounded.

I was watching an JLU episode, task force X today..
basically their version of suicide squad, and a great version at that.

the only complaint about this episode that I had is how the main heroes acted toward the humans on the station. basically way out of character and far grumpier than normal. maybe jsut to show that they where in charge....but it came off like they cared nothing about the average humans working for them. the last line in particular 'we can't trust anyone now'.....and the final shot of all the normal human workers walking around them just left me in a bad light. one wrong incident where bad guys infiltrated their layer, and suddenly they are going to look at everyone suspicious in an ocd way?

you've got to keep these characters true to who they are, or anything off, and the audience will pick up on that and it won't really ring true.

this is the only incident in an otherwise excellent justice league series that I didn't like. and then it's forgotten about in the finale when the crew and super heroes are standing together during supermans 'we need you' speech. THAT felt more right.

working with these characters is a very delicate balancing act. after 70 years with some of them, we know what to expect. change too much, or even change a little for dramatic tension, and it doesn'[t work. but, that's where newer characters, like say, static shock could get a chance to shine. he's an awesome new addition to the JL that should get more of a chance to shine...
 
Hey, remember when Superman was laboriously dragging that ship across the ice, its too bad he forgot he has ice melting heat vision.

Or that he could fly? They didnt even make him do any cool Superman stuff, I mean dragging a ship through ice? Thats all they could come up with? YAWN.
 
It wouldn't be so bad if it were just horrible. Then at least it might go away.

But it actually does have some redeeming qualities. As much as I hate both of the films he's in...Cavil could actually be a really great Superman in different films. I love his look.
 
It wouldn't be so bad if it were just horrible. Then at least it might go away.

But it actually does have some redeeming qualities. As much as I hate both of the films he's in...Cavil could actually be a really great Superman in different films. I love his look.

Yeah, Im with you on that. He definitely has the look down, and I would love to see him in a Superman movie where the director actually knows, and cares about the character. He seems like a nice guy, and wants people to like him as Superman. Such a bummer... Seems like a waste of talent.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug...and-batman-v-superman-proves-it/#6b1ae16e258e

(Article with analysis on how Superman is done well in these films. Very interesting thoughts)

I am not expecting this to change any of your minds - though I am truly quite gutted about the level of absolute vitriol on show here for what I think was a flawed but great film.

However, before reading, I would ask that you have an open mind about the interpretation of the film that was presented to us. Not the film you've decided should exist. And it might just help you to appreciate this version of Superman a little more, with a bit of reflection.

Have any of you that are trashing this film seen it more than once? I appreciate that if films are one shots for you and they HAVE to work first time...then fair enough. But I love that these films that Snyder has produced have so much rewatchability. You can analyse and go into more depth with these films, even if they dont nail everything.


And further to this, the JLA thing - you make a good point about there being bad moments in our favourite shows. For instance. Supermans massively variable power levels? His holier than thou attitude towards the league? His characterisation in JLA is nowhere near "perfect" (whatever that means to people personally) - and I still absolutely loved all of the JLA episodes. I think Superman is shown in some amazing ways in that show, because they have hours and hours to do so, and it is by and large, a childrens show with occasional adult themes - I'd still sit down and watch them all now, and BTAS, and JLA Unlimited etc. STAS was great too as a precursor to JLA, but it was also massively variable in how it showed Superman.

In today's films if you applied that knowing wink to the camera in a Superman movie, I personally think it would absolutely fail, and I wouldn't be happy with it on the big screen - however, two films of Superman so far, and his development is excellent in my eyes.

We've gone from a baby struggling to breathe, to a scared young child who can see through walls and bones and can heat up things with his vision, to a heroic teenager that keeps on saving people despite his father warning him that it puts Clark at risk of discovery (which in this world, seems to be a valid worry...he was not ready to be discovered at that age at all) to a teenager that has already influenced people to do good (Pete Ross helps him up) after not crushing a bullies fist, to a young man who trusts in his fathers judgement in the moment so much he loses him, to a man (man...not god, not perfect being) who intervenes in all areas of life to help people, including social injustices of protecting a waitresses honour, and then doesn't crack the guys skull when he is a total ass. He is experiencing people in all walks of life while saving them etc. Then finds out who he actually is - and decides with this new information, that perhaps he can achieve even greater things, and pushes himself harder. Learns to fly. Hours later...Zod. Gives himself up to humanity, and then gives himself to Zod in the slim chance that Zod would spare us. Zod doesn't, he wants to raise Krypton here. Supes defends humanity zealously to the best of his raw ability with zero training and zero help. Has to make a horrendous choice and kill the last surviving member of his own race to save humanity. Then has to find a way to exist now that he is revealed.

Once he is revealed, he has to deal with humanities worst and best qualities. He saves people all over the world (not just America) and yet has to endure news reports talking about him as if he is a malicious god like figure. Questioning whether he should act at all to save people. Has to deal with peoples worship, and hate in equal measure. Wants to instill hope but isnt quite at the point where he can talk to humanity at large, because he probably doesnt know what to say. He's still lost, but he goes out everyday and saves people. And when he is home, he cooks for his girlfriend. He buys her flowers, and he does silly things to cheer her up (the bath tub) - that to me is Superman. The hopeful, inspiring guy who does what is right. He saves the girl at the Day of the Dead fire and hands her back to her family and he is smiling - not grinning, not making a joke. That would be ridiculous. And those people are worshipping him - should he push them away and run off? No. He stays for a short while to be with them. Inspiring hope. As a journalist he wants to write about real issues, things that matter to all people. He is earnest and honest to a point and he wants to do the right thing.

And yet wherever he goes, there is a reaction, there are consequences. This is the part that I think a lot of people miss. The negativity that people perceive about Superman is the activity around him, not him. Lex causing atrocities to skew Supes public image. Lex causing the deaths of hundreds in a bombing that Superman admits he wasn't looking for, either because he was distracted or he was admitting his naivety when it comes to humanity - he literally still believes in us and trusts us. You can see the pain in his eyes as he stands there amid the burning wreckage that was caused as a response to his existence. And he is a MAN. Not a god. Can you imagine the emotions you'd be feeling? Why one earth would this Superman be smiling and quipping and cheeky at this point? This loss of life hurts him so much that he has to retreat, he has to gather his thoughts and figure out if what he is doing is the right thing to do. He turns to his mother, who offers him sage advice. She sees her young boy, and all this pressure on him. And she wants him to know that whatever he does, she will be proud. In his mind, he remembers a story from his father. And then decides that what he does is right, and returns. For Lois.

He tries to talk to Bruce, talk reason. It doesn't work. Batman is so one minded at this point that he wouldn't listen to anything Supes would say.

And then, he sacrifices his life to save us (and no, Superman would not let others do that part for him etc. The act itself is very Superman like.) He always wants to take the burden, and shoulder it.

It worked for me. When you really engage with the film and the history and the story that they are telling us, it works so well, in my opinion.

Yes, plenty of plot inconsistencies, plenty of things I also didn't like. But this Superman is on a journey to becoming the guy that we read about in the comics. It's character development!
 
This could backfire tremendously. If the recut doesn't pull surprising numbers that will just solidify the idea that WB is pulling at straws now.
This is also evidence of the executive mindset - that playing the long game only benefits the guy who replaces you. Their incentive is to make $$$ before they get fired.
Nobody has love for the property or care for its integrity. It's all about keeping the G6 fueled.
 
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug...and-batman-v-superman-proves-it/#6b1ae16e258e

(Article with analysis on how Superman is done well in these films. Very interesting thoughts)

I am not expecting this to change any of your minds - though I am truly quite gutted about the level of absolute vitriol on show here for what I think was a flawed but great film.

However, before reading, I would ask that you have an open mind about the interpretation of the film that was presented to us. Not the film you've decided should exist. And it might just help you to appreciate this version of Superman a little more, with a bit of reflection.

Have any of you that are trashing this film seen it more than once? I appreciate that if films are one shots for you and they HAVE to work first time...then fair enough. But I love that these films that Snyder has produced have so much rewatchability. You can analyse and go into more depth with these films, even if they dont nail everything.


And further to this, the JLA thing - you make a good point about there being bad moments in our favourite shows. For instance. Supermans massively variable power levels? His holier than thou attitude towards the league? His characterisation in JLA is nowhere near "perfect" (whatever that means to people personally) - and I still absolutely loved all of the JLA episodes. I think Superman is shown in some amazing ways in that show, because they have hours and hours to do so, and it is by and large, a childrens show with occasional adult themes - I'd still sit down and watch them all now, and BTAS, and JLA Unlimited etc. STAS was great too as a precursor to JLA, but it was also massively variable in how it showed Superman.

In today's films if you applied that knowing wink to the camera in a Superman movie, I personally think it would absolutely fail, and I wouldn't be happy with it on the big screen - however, two films of Superman so far, and his development is excellent in my eyes.

We've gone from a baby struggling to breathe, to a scared young child who can see through walls and bones and can heat up things with his vision, to a heroic teenager that keeps on saving people despite his father warning him that it puts Clark at risk of discovery (which in this world, seems to be a valid worry...he was not ready to be discovered at that age at all) to a teenager that has already influenced people to do good (Pete Ross helps him up) after not crushing a bullies fist, to a young man who trusts in his fathers judgement in the moment so much he loses him, to a man (man...not god, not perfect being) who intervenes in all areas of life to help people, including social injustices of protecting a waitresses honour, and then doesn't crack the guys skull when he is a total ass. He is experiencing people in all walks of life while saving them etc. Then finds out who he actually is - and decides with this new information, that perhaps he can achieve even greater things, and pushes himself harder. Learns to fly. Hours later...Zod. Gives himself up to humanity, and then gives himself to Zod in the slim chance that Zod would spare us. Zod doesn't, he wants to raise Krypton here. Supes defends humanity zealously to the best of his raw ability with zero training and zero help. Has to make a horrendous choice and kill the last surviving member of his own race to save humanity. Then has to find a way to exist now that he is revealed.

Once he is revealed, he has to deal with humanities worst and best qualities. He saves people all over the world (not just America) and yet has to endure news reports talking about him as if he is a malicious god like figure. Questioning whether he should act at all to save people. Has to deal with peoples worship, and hate in equal measure. Wants to instill hope but isnt quite at the point where he can talk to humanity at large, because he probably doesnt know what to say. He's still lost, but he goes out everyday and saves people. And when he is home, he cooks for his girlfriend. He buys her flowers, and he does silly things to cheer her up (the bath tub) - that to me is Superman. The hopeful, inspiring guy who does what is right. He saves the girl at the Day of the Dead fire and hands her back to her family and he is smiling - not grinning, not making a joke. That would be ridiculous. And those people are worshipping him - should he push them away and run off? No. He stays for a short while to be with them. Inspiring hope. As a journalist he wants to write about real issues, things that matter to all people. He is earnest and honest to a point and he wants to do the right thing.

And yet wherever he goes, there is a reaction, there are consequences. This is the part that I think a lot of people miss. The negativity that people perceive about Superman is the activity around him, not him. Lex causing atrocities to skew Supes public image. Lex causing the deaths of hundreds in a bombing that Superman admits he wasn't looking for, either because he was distracted or he was admitting his naivety when it comes to humanity - he literally still believes in us and trusts us. You can see the pain in his eyes as he stands there amid the burning wreckage that was caused as a response to his existence. And he is a MAN. Not a god. Can you imagine the emotions you'd be feeling? Why one earth would this Superman be smiling and quipping and cheeky at this point? This loss of life hurts him so much that he has to retreat, he has to gather his thoughts and figure out if what he is doing is the right thing to do. He turns to his mother, who offers him sage advice. She sees her young boy, and all this pressure on him. And she wants him to know that whatever he does, she will be proud. In his mind, he remembers a story from his father. And then decides that what he does is right, and returns. For Lois.

He tries to talk to Bruce, talk reason. It doesn't work. Batman is so one minded at this point that he wouldn't listen to anything Supes would say.

And then, he sacrifices his life to save us (and no, Superman would not let others do that part for him etc. The act itself is very Superman like.) He always wants to take the burden, and shoulder it.

It worked for me. When you really engage with the film and the history and the story that they are telling us, it works so well, in my opinion.

Yes, plenty of plot inconsistencies, plenty of things I also didn't like. But this Superman is on a journey to becoming the guy that we read about in the comics. It's character development!

While I appreciate your analysis, I have to completely disagree with you. I think youre giving Snyder and his team WAY too much credit, and are trying to rationalize based on what you already know of the character, not what you watched in the films (MoS and BvS). There is no character development at all when it comes to Superman in these movies. He seriously is not different in between the two movies. He is still wishy washy about what he is supposed to do, if he is supposed to save people or if he shouldnt blah blah blah. Snyder tried to convey the ****** metaphor with some of the imagery, and self sacrifice(hell they even used a spear) but it totally fell flat, and when Superman died, you didnt feel anything. You didnt care. At least I didnt. And you know why? Because Zack Snyder hates Superman. You know how Sam Raimi was forced to make Venom in Spiderman 3, and how much he sucked and just didnt work, total waste of one of Spideys most iconic villains? Its like Snyder wanted to make a Batman movie and WB was like "nope, you have to make a superman one first, and then include Superman in the next Batman movie". I could go on and on about how they didnt get Superman right, and thats the most frustrating thing, considering there is SO much source material to draw from. Thats the conflict of Superman, is that he has all these amazing powers, but he cant save everyone, but everyone knows that he is the good guy. When you see Superman, you know damn well youre going to be saved. When you mentioned the things that Clark was doing(making eggs etc) thats something any clown can do. And Lois knows he is Superman for gods sakes! Can you imagine if your significant other could do the things Superman could do?! Making eggs and flooding the bathroom is the last thing I would think of doing. Thats what Im saying. There was no creativity in the writing of Superman. He gets made fun of and laughed at by Perry White, and to me, is telling the audience "Its not 1938 anymore" (Supermans first appereance), the world sucks, and there is no hope. So lets blow stuff up and kill people. And Superman isnt hopeful, or inspiring. He even says "Nobody stays good" over the course of 18 months? And regarding the bombing, that was probably the most asinine thing in the whole movie. Superman just standing there in flames thinking "god I hate the smell of burnt hair". And thats the thing, the public image thing is barely addressed, the military tries to nuke him, Congress shrugs their shoulders around him, the people are kind of like "whatever" but then he "dies" and they give him a presidential funeral? This movie is all over the place and thats part of the problem, nothing is solidified. And dont get me started on how Bats comes into this. No, he isnt a god. Not even close. He can do amazing things nobody else can, but that doesnt make him a god. Dont you think that if the loss of life affected him so much, he wouldnt have wrecked Metropolis in the first place, and killed Zod? Sage advice? Really? "This world doesnt owe you a thing". Sounds pretty bitter to me. Regarding Pa Kent stacking rocks; is it a flashback? Was it a dream? A premonition? Why is every story or memory depressing that revolves around Pa Kent, or Clarks childhood.

He would only listen to him say the name of his mom. Then everything changes. Im sorry man, but this movie is awful. And it shouldnt have been! Its SO EASY to make a Superman and Batman movie.

Thats what I dont agree with. Youre thinking of Superman in name only, and applying it to what Snyder is feeding you, which is a turd sandwich. But hey, thats your opinion so...good for you in enjoying it. I guess.

This Superman is NOTHING like the comics. Please dont say that, because thats completely false. Thats why he sucks in this movie. Just because he has an S on his chest, doesnt make him Superman.
 
The brilliant thing about Donner's Superman (and the Chris Reeves) is that his character, while having near limitless power, somehow is still an underdog. He is sympathetic because he can't break his secret to the one woman he likes. But it's not a relationship that's wrapped in angst. We root for him to win her in his earnest sincerity.

The Snyder Superman is not an underdog. Clark Kent, for that matter, isn't an underdog. And by stripping away the romantic tension between Lois and him we can't even root for him to win her over. There is nothing about his life to which we can relate or in which we can sympathize.

The Donner Superman was always striving for something better - for the world and for himself. He has "hope." You can't infuse Snyder Superman with "hope" when he strives for nothing and merely exists and broods. This is why his death seemed pointless and why I didn't feel a thing.
 
The brilliant thing about Donner's Superman (and the Chris Reeves) is that his character, while having near limitless power, somehow is still an underdog. He is sympathetic because he can't break his secret to the one woman he likes. But it's not a relationship that's wrapped in angst. We root for him to win her in his earnest sincerity.

The Snyder Superman is not an underdog. Clark Kent, for that matter, isn't an underdog. And by stripping away the romantic tension between Lois and him we can't even root for him to win her over. There is nothing about his life to which we can relate or in which we can sympathize.

The Donner Superman was always striving for something better - for the world and for himself. He has "hope." You can't infuse Snyder Superman with "hope" when he strives for nothing and merely exists and broods. This is why his death seemed pointless and why I didn't feel a thing.

And the donner clark kent was just a loveable, bumbling nerd that tried to do the right thing, but most of the time couldn't, due to trying to keep his identity secret.
and with that brings some semblence of humor as the REAL clark will occasionally shine through as superman in disguise and help out where he could.

there was a great moment in all star superman where clark sees that a piece of crumbling bridge is about to crush a man. so, he 'accidentally'
bumps into the man, knocking him down. he stays down long enough for the bridge to crack. Clark embarrases himself, but as superman, saves the day again.

that to me is the heart of the character. always doing good and being kind and gentle about it, and a little self defacing if needed.

there was none of that in this snyder superman. he behaved more like a Justice Lord than superman...all he had to do was lobotamize lex luthor (and he was about to on the roof)....
This superman is a jock poltical writer with no emotion, other than when he sees a nude amy addams in a tub. and honestly, who wouldn't that get emotion from?


And the whole Military funeral thing. The President TRIED TO NUKE HIM. He destroyed how many 'empty' buildings fighting doomsday, a monster that no one knew was a thread to THEM because he only went after superman. and suddenly he wins the public and government over by killing an alien for who all they knew could have been friendly before superman attacked?


sorry movie, not buying it. your attempt to be grim, gritty, dark and adult ruined superman. and your attempt at realism didn't help batmans world much either. but i enjoyed those movies far more than supermans outings
 
No he wasn't about to lobotomise Luthor... Seriously dude, that's all in your head. Just like doomsday friendly ? Please. I'm gonna exit this thread now for a while before I roll my eyes so hard that I'd lose a contact behind. There is a lot some valid criticism going on here, but a whole load of non-sensical BS that's just painful to read next to it.
 
anyone who didn't think superman was going to kill lex on that rooftop is stuck with the image of what we know of the character and applying it to THIS superman.
the ONLY reason he stopped was because of lex's threat.

this superman is closer to zod than what we know.
 
While I appreciate your analysis, I have to completely disagree with you. I think youre giving Snyder and his team WAY too much credit, and are trying to rationalize based on what you already know of the character, not what you watched in the films (MoS and BvS). There is no character development at all when it comes to Superman in these movies. He seriously is not different in between the two movies. He is still wishy washy about what he is supposed to do, if he is supposed to save people or if he shouldnt blah blah blah. Snyder tried to convey the ****** metaphor with some of the imagery, and self sacrifice(hell they even used a spear) but it totally fell flat, and when Superman died, you didnt feel anything. You didnt care. At least I didnt. And you know why? Because Zack Snyder hates Superman. You know how Sam Raimi was forced to make Venom in Spiderman 3, and how much he sucked and just didnt work, total waste of one of Spideys most iconic villains? Its like Snyder wanted to make a Batman movie and WB was like "nope, you have to make a superman one first, and then include Superman in the next Batman movie". I could go on and on about how they didnt get Superman right, and thats the most frustrating thing, considering there is SO much source material to draw from. Thats the conflict of Superman, is that he has all these amazing powers, but he cant save everyone, but everyone knows that he is the good guy. When you see Superman, you know damn well youre going to be saved. When you mentioned the things that Clark was doing(making eggs etc) thats something any clown can do. And Lois knows he is Superman for gods sakes! Can you imagine if your significant other could do the things Superman could do?! Making eggs and flooding the bathroom is the last thing I would think of doing. Thats what Im saying. There was no creativity in the writing of Superman. He gets made fun of and laughed at by Perry White, and to me, is telling the audience "Its not 1938 anymore" (Supermans first appereance), the world sucks, and there is no hope. So lets blow stuff up and kill people. And Superman isnt hopeful, or inspiring. He even says "Nobody stays good" over the course of 18 months? And regarding the bombing, that was probably the most asinine thing in the whole movie. Superman just standing there in flames thinking "god I hate the smell of burnt hair". And thats the thing, the public image thing is barely addressed, the military tries to nuke him, Congress shrugs their shoulders around him, the people are kind of like "whatever" but then he "dies" and they give him a presidential funeral? This movie is all over the place and thats part of the problem, nothing is solidified. And dont get me started on how Bats comes into this. No, he isnt a god. Not even close. He can do amazing things nobody else can, but that doesnt make him a god. Dont you think that if the loss of life affected him so much, he wouldnt have wrecked Metropolis in the first place, and killed Zod? Sage advice? Really? "This world doesnt owe you a thing". Sounds pretty bitter to me. Regarding Pa Kent stacking rocks; is it a flashback? Was it a dream? A premonition? Why is every story or memory depressing that revolves around Pa Kent, or Clarks childhood.

He would only listen to him say the name of his mom. Then everything changes. Im sorry man, but this movie is awful. And it shouldnt have been! Its SO EASY to make a Superman and Batman movie.

Thats what I dont agree with. Youre thinking of Superman in name only, and applying it to what Snyder is feeding you, which is a turd sandwich. But hey, thats your opinion so...good for you in enjoying it. I guess.

This Superman is NOTHING like the comics. Please dont say that, because thats completely false. Thats why he sucks in this movie. Just because he has an S on his chest, doesnt make him Superman.

Whilst I also appreciate that you have a different view - considering a lot of what you just mentioned...did you read the article? It addresses a lot of your concerns succinctly.

Also don't tell me "You're thinking.."

I didn't claim this Superman is like the "comics" (because only one interpretation exists doesnt it...) I said he is on the way to embodying some of those core characteristics we know and love. And has shown many of those qualities already. Nothing like the comics though...Have you read Superman: Earth One? Secret Identity? Even in Kingdom Come he retreats from society after losing Lois and being disgusted with the justice system etc. So I think there are many elements in this Superman that are derived from the comics.

The wording in some of your arguments is quite frustrating. He says "Nobody stays good in this world" as he flies off to try to convince a man who wants to kill him to help him, while another man whom he has never personally wronged has his mother bound and gagged, and had just pushed the love of his life off the top of a building, and had caused the deaths of hundreds (?) of innocent people in the senate explosion, specifically to hurt Superman. His faith is strained! He is being tested...he wants to believe in people but its ridiculously difficult, humanity is full of awful people doing awful things. Thats part of the whole thread of this film. Batman is also utterly despondent about the good in people. He doesn't trust humanity either. If we lived in a rosy world full of good people, what would be the point in Superheroes?

Conveniently forgetting the part where Martha says "Be their hero Clark, be their angel, be their monument. Be anything they need you to be. Or be none of it."? She is at once encouraging him to make the choice he is comfortable with and letting him know that she supports him in any circumstance.

"He wouldn't have wrecked Metropolis or killed Zod..." I'm joining teragon here because if people cannot see the story being told to them then I've no chance in explaining it.

http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/ :thumbsup
 
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