Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

[CharlesHouse]

WTF are you talking about? Read what I said - not what you think I said or what you wanted it to say. I said nothing about the "characterization," outside of the idea that Lex became a "Junior" to rationalize Eisenberg's casting.

I made no statement about hoping for any character or about the him not being like the comics. Not sure how you try to rationalize the Luthor we "expected" being Luther Sr., that makes little sense as the Luthor that we may have "expected" wasn't born in Germany and was Superman's arch-enemy - so that's not what most of us would've expected anyhow... so your point is lost on me.

I would've been happy with a better performance from whomever played Luthor.

Whew.

What I'm saying is, people left angry about how the character they got wasn't the character they expected, because they thought it would be the character from countless comics and several previous films.

If it were a completely different character with the same name, because it's someone's child, then that makes that argument pointless.

This isn't an argument, man. I'm simply explaining a pretty basic concept people seem to not have interest in.

 

[Birdie]

Yup, nailed it. I've been reading Batman and Superman comics for over forty years, and neither of the clowns in BVS represents their personalities or ideology.

Having read that i09 piece, and not giving a single feck about either Batman or Superman, that write-up makes the movie sound alternately hilarious and badass. I'm so down with the idea of superheroes killing folk and each other, that I may actually make the effort to watch this movie when I don't have to pay for the opportunity. Unfortunately, many other reports condemn it as boring, rather than hilariously stupid and ultraviolent. What a conundrum.

 

[CharlesHouse]

I'll never understand why they change movies so much to suit the chinese market to the point of the movie itself suffering.



this is america. if the american audience isn't enough to be concerned about, that we have to worry about a communist country...


the movie studios have far bigger problems than one BO return.

You... understand saying "this is America" about a film that has made around half of it's box office from overseas markets is... pretty weird, right? On the internet, where many of the forum members are not in the US?

American audiences aren't enough to be concerned with. It's a global market.

I'm not going to get into politics with someone who thinks so narrowly about something as fairly harmless as movies.

- - - Updated - - -

where was the negative review kevin smith gave BvS?

someone posted it in one of these threads and now i can't find it. wanted to show it to a friend of mine in media..

I watched his hour long video about it today, where he had positive and negative things to say. I have also seen articles written approaching the hour long video as if it were entirely negative and selecting a few quotes to frame it as such.

 

[Snikt]

True, but I think we are also getting spoiled as film goers as to our expectations. We seem to want the best every single time and refuse to allow anything that doesn't meet our high expectations be a success. We need to just sit back and enjoy movies for what they are.

While I do agree with this to some extent, I think since it was known that this movie was going to be a launching off point for the DCEU, it blew its wad too soon. And youre right, being spoiled with good editing, pacing, and story telling makes it tough when none of those things work, but, thats what makes a good movie. If none of those things are present, whatever the subject matter, the movie isnt going to be enjoyable. For me, this wasnt a movie about some unknown character that a studio was trying to introduce. Both of these are literally( I mean oldest, most revered) the worlds greatest superheroes, and I personally thought they were mishandled so badly, that Im never going to watch another Zack Snyder movie ever again.
@cboath - Exactly, you dont slate multiple movies on the condition of one movie to make that kind of money back. Especially when Deadpool made over 750 million on a 60 million budget, with an unknown property. Deadpool is pretty obscure, unless you are into comics. People that didnt even know who Deadpool is saw that movie, and enjoyed it.
@CessnaDriver - It sucks now a days that if youre proud to be american, its a bad thing. Or to not "offend" people by saying "truth, justice, and the american way". I grew up in the wrong time. :cry

Now regarding China, thats a whole other can of worms that probably deserves its own thread.

And JD, just ignore CharlesHouse, I think he likes to just disagree to be "that guy". I suggest blocking him.

 

[KrangPrime]

I've read through all the comments in here and in the pre-release thread. I know there will be die-hards who will adamantly love this film no matter what. That's fine. I think you're demented if you do, but that's your right. I won't convince you otherwise. You won't bring me around to your point of view. It's not worth any of our time and energy to try. So. This guy sums up everything I would want to say about the movie perfectly, plus things I didn't even catch. So I'll let him do the talking.

The only thing I'll add to the discussion here (well, rather, over in the pre-release thread, which I don't want to keep adding to, now that the film is actually out). I've never had a problem with Metropolis and Gotham being right next to each other. Back when all the DC heroes were in their own little private universes, both were different parts of New York City, and it still works today. Metropolis is the world of Midtown Manhattan down to the Financial District. Wayne Manor was one of those old estates out on Long Island, and Gotham is the world between Manhattan and that -- Queens and Brooklyn. Maybe the Bronx, too. Boroughs that have always been a bit rougher than the more polished parts of the city.

I will also say I really wish Bruce had used the kryptonite to make/add on to a pair of gauntlets. For all that Zack drew from TDKR, I'm annoyed he omitted that. But then, this is the guy who borked the ending of Watchmen, so...

--Jonah

I particularly like this line..

>>>
Michael Bay thinks explosions are awesome and stories are dumb. Zack Snyder actually hates you.>>

 

[KrangPrime]

You... understand saying "this is America" about a film that has made around half of it's box office from overseas markets is... pretty weird, right? On the internet, where many of the forum members are not in the US?

American audiences aren't enough to be concerned with. It's a global market.

I'm not going to get into politics with someone who thinks so narrowly about something as fairly harmless as movies.

sigh......
how should I have phrased that so people wouldn't get upset?
i'm starting to loose track these days..

Maybe 'This is the free world'.....would have been more appropriate...but because we where focusing on supermans mission, I had america on mind.

 

[Snikt]

There really needs to be a sarcasm font, cause I would use that ALL THE TIME. Of course you had america in mind. He is an american icon. Thats his motto, and you shouldnt be ashamed to say it. Hey NeilT, just do what I told JD to do. :lol

 

[KrangPrime]

While I do agree with this to some extent, I think since it was known that this movie was going to be a launching off point for the DCEU, it blew its wad too soon.
@CessnaDriver - It sucks now a days that if youre proud to be american, its a bad thing. Or to not "offend" people by saying "truth, justice, and the american way". I grew up in the wrong time. :cry

Now regarding China, thats a whole other can of worms that probably deserves its own thread.

Agreed on the china part. only point I Was making, is : When you ruin your ninja turtles movie by turning shredder white, and removing all japanese references and martial arts to please the chinese market, the movie industry has bigger problems.


as for the former.... All those characters SHOULD HAVE HAD THEIR OWN MOVIE BY NOW. There is NO EXCUSE.

Frig: I had NO IDEA Guardians of the Galaxy even EXISTED. I went to see that movie. I loved it. I'm excited to see where it goes.

I actually went out of BvS HATING both batman AND Superman. how does that even happen?

 

[Snikt]

Or the added scenes in Iron Man 3, and the casting of Chinese actors with random things, and dont even get me started on the Michael Bay crap. What I wonder is, do Chinese audiences get annoyed by the pandering to their stuff? I completely agree, it drives me nuts.

Thats exactly my point about expectations that I was talking about earlier. When you have such iconic characters, you dont mess with how they are portrayed, especially when they are so different they arent the same characters anymore.

You let Zack Snyder handle them, thats what. I swear he is a Michael Bay clone, or relative, or maybe his replicant, I dont know.

 

[NeoRutty]

Finally checked it out... (I say "finally" because my waiting more than a couple of days to check out a Batman flick is unheard of... but I was busy).

So I haven't read through this thread, but I'm guessing it's a mixed bag...

I'm bummed.

I'm mostly bummed because I don't like where the future of this franchise is going... The DC universe. I think Zack Snyder is completely the wrong guy for this. Ironically the guy who I would THINK could pull this off, is the guy who did a pretty terrible Superman movie already, Bryan Singer.

The likes!

- 1918 Wonder Woman picture (makes me want to check out that flick)

- Batfleck (not surprised... Love Affleck, and was stoked when he got the gig). It's not a bias... For example, I love Clooney.

- Lex Landis - I actually liked Lex in this... he wasn't exactly LEX LUTHOR, but the character, Not-Lex, was still ok. The rumor he may have based his Lex on Max Landis seems pretty legit now

- Alfred - Yep. Great. Would love to see more of him and Bruce, if Bruce wasn't so dark... Levity wouldn't hurt this flick.

- Hot Asian Assistant - Cuz yeah.

- Gal Gadot - I know next to nothing about Wonder Woman, but I liked her in this...

Dislikes!

Pretty much the rest, but especially....

- What was Lex's motivation? What was he trying to do? I have no idea what his end game was.

- Why is Supes such a Bummer?! Why is EVERYTHING SUPERMAN so SAD?!?! - The moment I realized Zach Scheider was wrong for this flick is when he failed to capture an easy "Hero Moment".

We have a setup where Supes is at a party and sees a report on TV of someone in danger at a building. This is the moment to walk out those doors, bust open the shirt, and kick in the theme. A moment where as a viewer you stand up and go "YEAH MAN!" (If you're that type...)

But instead we get slow mo rescue... non smiley Superbummer lowering the girl to a crowd that want to touch his cape. Every scene of rescue is slow, and meandering and a bummer.

- I never want to see Ma Kent in photos looking like she's stuck in a torture porn movie. She's the motherly advice from the farm... Not in "Saw 6"

ehh... as I'm writing this I realize there are probably already 13 pages of you guys ripping on this same stuff... I'm gonna cut out now.

Come on DC. Get it together.

Thor comes to earth and we don't get everyone fighting over "IF Thor is a god, how many god's are there? Does that make earth's god more or less real? Is THOR the second coming? What is the church's position on Thor? What about sciences stance?"

No... we get a montage of Superheros drinking and trying to lift his hammer. Fun.

FUN.

 

[KrangPrime]

- Hot Asian Assistant - Cuz yeah.

Mercy is such a minor character, I don't mind if they race or gender switch that one much.
What bothered me with this one....

Lex sends his perfectly USEFUL assistant, to die. Frig it. Even the Joker doesn't do that to harley when he's in a bad mood, or has a master plan. In Worlds Finest, Harley and Mercy Have a fight... Harley comes back to Joker all dazed and confused, he slaps her lightly saying 'how's it going slugger?'' and she falls down exhausted, and he actually looks not only sad, but concerned. this lex literally sends his assistant to die without a seconds thought, and MAKES A JOKE about it IIRC. there is something wrong with doing that to one of your characters for no reason at all.

- What was Lex's motivation? What was he trying to do? I have no idea what his end game was..

None of his 'plan' makes sense. the most confusing part is why he has such a hate for superman. and how he managed to deduce supermans identity if they never met. Never mind find out where martha worked in the apparent short time he knew who clark was. i'm assuming it was somehow through zods ship.

- Why is Supes such a Bummer?! Why is EVERYTHING SUPERMAN so SAD?!?! - The moment I realized Zach Scheider was wrong for this flick is when he failed to capture an easy "Hero Moment".
We have a setup where Supes is at a party and sees a report on TV of someone in danger at a building. This is the moment to walk out those doors, bust open the shirt, and kick in the theme. A moment where as a viewer you stand up and go "YEAH MAN!" (If you're that type...)

Theme? Modern tv executives don't want great music over shadowing moments these days. just ask rick berman and his tng composers.
we haven't had a GREAT theme in a movie since the 80s, I'll wager...maybe late 90s. after that, can you think of one that stands out? in TV or movies? especially with intro sequences in tv being cut short for time...

- I never want to see Ma Kent in photos looking like she's stuck in a torture porn movie. She's the motherly advice from the farm... Not in "Saw 6"

I was thinking about this the other day. IF Superman was created NOW....what would his origin be? It sure as hell wouldn't be growing up on a farm. so, where would he come from?

No... we get a montage of Superheros drinking and trying to lift his hammer. Fun.

FUN.

uh oh. you said the F word. the DC sensors will be at your door burning all your copys of super friends and Glick dolls. excuse me, stuffed animals....action figures..what's the non upsetting people word these days? ;o).. j/k

 

[RougeAvenger81]

- Why is Supes such a Bummer?! Why is EVERYTHING SUPERMAN so SAD?!?! - The moment I realized Zach Scheider was wrong for this flick is when he failed to capture an easy "Hero Moment".

We have a setup where Supes is at a party and sees a report on TV of someone in danger at a building. This is the moment to walk out those doors, bust open the shirt, and kick in the theme. A moment where as a viewer you stand up and go "YEAH MAN!" (If you're that type...)

But instead we get slow mo rescue... non smiley Superbummer lowering the girl to a crowd that want to touch his cape. Every scene of rescue is slow, and meandering and a bummer.


FUN.

I can agree with you on this. I for one enjoyed the film a lot, but the absence of that hero moment was noticeable. They had a small moment in MoS when he learned to fly, but they could have given a similar moment in BvS. All I can say is they wanted to maintain the tone?

 

[JD]

Whew.

What I'm saying is, people left angry about how the character they got wasn't the character they expected, because they thought it would be the character from countless comics and several previous films.

If it were a completely different character with the same name, because it's someone's child, then that makes that argument pointless.

This isn't an argument, man. I'm simply explaining a pretty basic concept people seem to not have interest in.

Whew is right. You didn't say that at all - you replied to my post(s) which had nothing to do with the character "they" expected (and seeing how I merely made a mention that it seemed that Lex became a Junior due to the casting of a more youthful actor... ).

Why you're tagging this false premise onto me and my posts is rather baffling.

The argument that it's "someone's child" is nonsense. This is the movie version of Lex Luthor, just like other bits have changed - now we have a younger Lex Luthor. The idea that he's Lex Jr. has little to nothing to do with this being a different version of the character. In fact, Alexander Luthor Jr. dates back to 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths... along with the countless versions of Lex we've had throughout the years.

 

[CharlesHouse]

The argument that it's "someone's child" is nonsense. This is the movie version of Lex Luthor.

This isn't Earth 3.

 

[JD]

This isn't Earth 3.

Never said it was.

 

[AJTaliesen]

I swear all I am seeing in the news is BvS bashing and stories about how his bombed its second weekend. Financially, this movie is by no means a failure. It almost seems like a Twilight Zone episode how many people are treating this movie like it is the worst thing to come out of Hollywood since Batman and Robin. BvS wasn't great and has more than its fair share of flaws...but seriously folks? I don't know who the WB pissed off, but they seem to have an awful lot of people trying to bring them down.

In fairness, it's because opening weekend has no correlation to the movie being good or not. It's an audience entirely made of people who have not seen it and don't know anyone who has.

Opening weekend is about how good the marketing is, or how much people want the movie to be good.

In the case of a big budget comic book movie starring both of the two most popular super heroes of all time...a big opening weekend doesn't even mean the movie was in English. Just that it actually happened and there was a trailer and posters and everything.

Of course... In the interest of balance: sharp decline second week actually is normal for pretty much any of the kind of movie talked about in this forum. Because we're fans... We all go opening weekend, even if we think it'll suck, whereas something like a comedy needs some word of mouth before it even starts to take in oxygen.

 

[CharlesHouse]

Never said it was.

That's where Lex Junior exists. If this isn't Earth 3, this is a Junior to an existing Lex.

 

[TKRalph]

Why did they use fake eggs for clark's brief cooking scene? !?!?!?!?!?

 

[KrangPrime]

I keep going back to the 'his mother is martha' scene.

DC has all this dark imagry in the movie. Superman stabbing himself. Wonder woman slicing off parts of doomsday. Batman killing people. an entire congress consumed by fire, a jar of **** on screen. a car chase where dozens die. an opening montage with millions in a city fight dying. a nuke going off.


and the one thing that stops the fight between the smartest and most powerful men in the DC universe is 'HIS MOTHERS NAME IS MARTHA!'

How did ANYONE at DC not see how not only goofy it is, but it doesn't fit in with the rest of their murder verse movie?

I mean....how does a company like wb even stay afloat with decisions like that.

 

[JD]

That's where Lex Junior exists. If this isn't Earth 3, this is a Junior to an existing Lex.

You're either trolling or using some inane form of reasoning that has no rationality.

First and foremost, this isn't Earth anything. I merely mentioned Alexander Luthor Jr existed -- adding to an already large assortment of versions of Lex Luthor Sr/Jr. These movies don't belong to that universe (at least not that we've seen yet). This is Zack Snyder doing whatever he wants to and drawing inspiration from wherever he wants to.

Your arguments are pretty pointless and mundane. On one hand, this new Luthor is okay because he's Lex Jr. and not the other Lex's from comics and/or movies (because I've heard about so much outcry that Luthor isn't Gene Hackman or a CG version of him). ...but, no one should confuse him with the other Alexander Luthor Jr. because this isn't Earth 3. :facepalm