ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

That's why I've maintained that fan made items are always better because we can spend the time to make something to exacting specs in ways that will either custom fit us ( in the case of a costume) or satisfy our critical eye that a mass produced piece never could. Even Anovos has some sort of notes on how to get a custom fit for their soft good items. To me the further proof is how often fans modify mass produced pieces to suit our needs.

So every fan made item on eBay and Etsy and all over the net is better than a licensed replica? Really?

How can you make something to an exacting specification when so many elements of props or costumes have specifications (size, colors, materials, constructions, etc...) that are simply guessed at or theorized? One of the benefits of a licensed product is that the company has access to reared references or even the actual prop or costume to get information such as a 3D scan.

The other thing is that not everyone can afford to buy the upper echelon of fan made prop/costume replicas or the fan made item dose not meet the supply in which it is demanded. Sometimes licensed products are the best compromise of access price and quality or even a great base to make improvements if they desire.
 
Myself, and I think I speak for many here - we ARE on their side. The thing that hurts the relationship the most is that, because Joe and Dana are fans, because we saw LFL and Disney recognize trusted fans, and because of every signifier of stability and promise, WE entered into that relationship with a very high level of trust and faith that we do not feel was reciprocated.

And if it was reciprocated, it should not have been hidden while it was happening.

They jacked themselves by hiding and I PROMISE you that I could have sat in a room/ meeting/ conference with Disney and Anovos and explained to Disney how a paradigm shift with this particular product line was necessary with regard to the kind of communication high-end costumers are used to.

Anyway, where is the next effing "update" already - say something, dammit.
 
Myself, and I think I speak for many here - we ARE on their side. The thing that hurts the relationship the most is that, because Joe and Dana are fans, because we saw LFL and Disney recognize trusted fans, and because of every signifier of stability and promise, WE entered into that relationship with a very high level of trust and faith that we do not feel was reciprocated.

And if it was reciprocated, it should not have been hidden while it was happening.

They jacked themselves by hiding and I PROMISE you that I could have sat in a room/ meeting/ conference with Disney and Anovos and explained to Disney how a paradigm shift with this particular product line was necessary with regard to the kind of communication high-end costumers are used to.

Anyway, where is the next effing "update" already - say something, dammit.

When Anovos first stated taking payments and if someone asked me if they were going to have a good experience, I would have sworn up and down they were making a good choice.

I would have said, "Joe and Dana are one of us. They have been around and seen how buyers have been mistreated in the past. They know better. If you give them money, you can expect to be treated right."

Sheesh, I would have been wrong. :(
 
So every fan made item on eBay and Etsy and all over the net is better than a licensed replica? Really?

How can you make something to an exacting specification when so many elements of props or costumes have specifications (size, colors, materials, constructions, etc...) that are simply guessed at or theorized? One of the benefits of a licensed product is that the company has access to reared references or even the actual prop or costume to get information such as a 3D scan.

The other thing is that not everyone can afford to buy the upper echelon of fan made prop/costume replicas or the fan made item dose not meet the supply in which it is demanded. Sometimes licensed products are the best compromise of access price and quality or even a great base to make improvements if they desire.

The reason I am waiting for Anovos is because of their access to the real item. In my experience their are always surprises with what fans cannot achieve without that extra bit of information. There are always exceptions - and having something tailored to the body goes a LONG WAY. So does having the wearer be in shape as opposed to too tall or too short or too fat, etc. Cloth weight and cut is something often unaddressed for instance.

Just personal opinion - not voting either way. The best way to get the best costume (in fantasyland) is for a talented fan to have access to the molds and patterns, source the materials at whatever cost, and tailor a costume to specific measurements. And they will learn, for example, that basic chinos will not work for Indiana Jones pants: You need to use cavalry twill at 10x the cost of cotton - no choice in the matter.
 
Here's what I said:

I never said that their products were bad. Nor did I ever say that the demand or desire from fans (casual or hardcore) shouldn't be fulfilled by officially licensed products. I just think mass producing an item often leads to a dip in quality because there's no way to physically deliver the kind of accuracy hardcore fans desire at an affordable price point and keep that quality consistent. Almost every single mass produced item has some aftermarket add on or mods done to it to make it truly accurate.

Even MR had to make their props limited editions to keep the quality up to par. Do I wish that a company could deliver a reasonably priced item you wouldn't worry about carrying / wearing to a convention? Of course! Who wouldn't!? But efx tried it with their static lightsabers and they either didn't sell or they were very limited.

And no I wasn't referring to the vast majority of cheap garbage being sold on ebay or etsy when I was talking about fan made items. Believe me there is a lot of it and it's often sold not because the quality is good or accurate but because it's affordable and they can make a quick buck. I guarantee that a lot of it is made with cheap materials that won't hold up to regular use. That's not to suggest that it's all like that, but a LOT of it is. Neither am I knocking someone for trying to make a few bucks profit but if that's the only reason you're doing it and offering crap to your buyers then to hell with you.

I get that not everyone who wants to get into this hobby can't always afford the best stuff but I just get frustrated that too often people get screwed by buying three of the same inferior products when they could spend a little more upfront for one good quality item that would last them longer.

I was talking about the limited runs of items crafted by talented makers here on theRPF or other fan made or one offs or custom commissioned pieces as being better than mass produced items that hold a Lucasfilm stamp as often being far superior.

I personally don't care too much for officially licensed stuff because it always pales in comparison to what can be made by a fan who knows their stuff better than any company would or by me when I can make it myself. Not to mention that for me to use a licensed item in a finished costume I often feel that I am using a toy rather than a real prop.

Again it's just my take on it.

I can somewhat agree with you as for props in a lot of cases, but as far as costumes go, fit is everything. You can have the most screen accurate Darth Vader costume but unless you're built like David Prowse in 1976 then it's not going to look right on you without modding the hell out of it. Scale makes all the difference. A factory made suit purchased off the rack always looks better tailored to fit your measurements than to just buy it as is. If I could walk into a store and buy the props and costumes I've always wanted I would, but I had to teach myself all kinds of skills to make my own items because they don't make what I want.

Besides, Anovos may be selling the most screen accurate commercially available Star Wars costumes in existence but if they aren't delivering them to fans then what difference does it make?

Also I'd like to point out that you are dismissing my argument by referring to the vast majority of low quality items on ebay and etsy which I agreed are often cheap and inaccurate. I also addressed earlier that there is quality and accuracy to be found in mass produced items, but there are lots of cases where even those are modified by fans to make them more accurate.

Perhaps my point would be better suited to address the way a mass produced item fits someone than with regards to accuracy. Plus your stance negates how close quality fan made items get to the real thing. I can't afford to spend too much money on my own personal costumes, so I have to make my own, and I'd venture a guess that my work is as close to the real thing as any fan could get without having access to the original, barring the changes I make either for durability or lack of skills/ knowledge on my part.
 
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So, uh, the han belt was delayed what? 4ish years due to accuracy? The FO armor 3 years for accuracy? etc?

People are being ignored on CS and for refunds due to accuracy?

Nice letter, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence.
 
because as far as I have seen they don't do anything better than the unlicensed makers do
You’ve only stated reasons for them to improve.
FYI, being licensed is not a trivial matter.
Ever have or heard of having an eBay listing VEROd? That can’t happen with a licensed replica.
 
Here's what I said:



I can somewhat agree with you as for props in a lot of cases, but as far as costumes go, fit is everything. You can have the most screen accurate Darth Vader costume but unless you're built like David Prowse in 1976 then it's not going to look right on you without modding the hell out of it. Scale makes all the difference. A factory made suit purchased off the rack always looks better tailored to fit your measurements than to just buy it as is. If I could walk into a store and buy the props and costumes I've always wanted I would, but I had to teach myself all kinds of skills to make my own items because they don't make what I want.

Besides, Anovos may be selling the most screen accurate commercially available Star Wars costumes in existence but if they aren't delivering them to fans then what difference does it make?

Also I'd like to point out that you are dismissing my argument by referring to the vast majority of low quality items on ebay and etsy which I agreed are often cheap and inaccurate. I also addressed earlier that there is quality and accuracy to be found in mass produced items, but there are lots of cases where even those are modified by fans to make them more accurate.

Perhaps my point would be better suited to address the way a mass produced item fits someone than with regards to accuracy. Plus your stance negates how close quality fan made items get to the real thing. I can't afford to spend too much money on my own personal costumes, so I have to make my own, and I'd venture a guess that my work is as close to the real thing as any fan could get without having access to the original, barring the changes I make either for durability or lack of skills/ knowledge on my part.

First of all, my remark is based on your vague generalization of fan vs licensed products and not directed a particular seller or their ability to deliver on time. Yes, that is an issue but not what I am addressing here,

I do not see a problem with a licensed costume might need to go to the tailor to fit better. That does not make it worse than a fan made item. Even a real costume fit to an actor will need additional fittings after initial construction to get it right. It's the nature of fitted garments. I've had fan made costumes made to my measurements and if they were to fit a certain way, once I received them, I got them tweaked by a local tailor. The advantage of a company selling licensed items may have access or knowledge to correct material, design elements, construction that is not known to a person making fan made items.

I'm not saying that licensed is better than fan made. I'm just saying that "better" means different things to different people and I we should keep an open mind and not try to tell others what is better and what is worse. If you want to state your opinion for what you want in your collection, that is fine but at the same time, you should also take the time to note that in your comments. You will notice that a lot of my comments use remarks like, IMHO, I think, I believe, for me. I always try to make sure the reader knows my remarks or likes/dislikes are based on opinion and not a black and white fact that applies to everyone. When it comes to prop and costume replicas, I would never want say anything that makes someone feel bad about what they like or what they value in their collection
 
If Anovos did become insolvent or close down, the likelihood its licenses would be picked up is negligible at best. It is more likely the IP would view the failure of Anovos to be due in part to a lack of interest by consumers for the product.
MR got the license just fine after Icons and EFX got the license just fine after MR and then Anovos.
Licensers don't think the way you are suggesting.
 
Why would you want them to fail? please tell me how that (closure) is more advantageous than a company making improvements and thriving with consumers benefiting from that change. There are many examples of companies that have turned themselves around. Changed the product, improved customer relations and in the end, expanded the business line, here are a few. Would you say that consumers would be better off without these companies or their products?


Apple is one of the greatest comeback stories in tech history. Founder Steve Jobs was fired from the company in 1985. In the 12 years that followed, Apple found itself operating at a loss as it inched towards bankruptcy. Needing a refresh, Apple hired back Jobs in 1997 and he orchestrated a partnership with Microsoft to invest in $150 million into the company. A year later, the company introduced the iMac and for the first time since 1995, returned to profitability. The rest is history


Tesla and SpaceX both hit cash shortages just as the economy was tanking in 2008. "I could either pick SpaceX or Tesla or split the money I had left between them,” Musk told Bloomberg's Ashlee Vance. SpaceX applied for a contract with NASA as its last hope to bail itself out — and it won. The $1.6 billion contract has kept Musk's space dream afloat. At the same time SpaceX was crashing, Tesla was burning through about $4 million in cash a month. Instead of playing Sophie's choice, Musk made a bet that SpaceX would win the contract and keep both his space and car dreams alive. He took out a loan from SpaceX, and scrounged around for $20 million. After a bluff to his investors, they agreed to match the $20 million he raised, and the deal closed on Christmas Eve in 2008 — hours before the company would have gone bankrupt.

I for one felt national pride when I saw those rockets land on the platform. No other company or nation has ever achieved that before.

Airbnb was founded in 2008 by three guys who had an idea to rent out air mattresses in living room floors. To founder Brian Chesky's dismay, though, investors weren't as enthused with the homesharing business as they are now. Chesky received seven rejections from VCs and subsisted on cereal until the company finally was accepted into Y Combinator. That air mattress on the floor startup is now worth a whopping $25.5 billion. Our Au Pair uses this company every time she goes away for the weekend with other Au Pairs from our area.

Phil Libin had made the decision to lay off all of his employees and shut down Evernote in 2008. Checking his email one last time at 3 a.m. before going to bed, Libin found an email from a man in Sweden who loved the product and offered to invest. A wire transfer for $500,000 helped the company avoid a complete shut down and gain enough traction for it to take off. Evernote is now valued at more than $1 billion.

Founded in 1999 by Tim Westergren, Pandora was able to raise some money right before the dotcom bubble burst. Once that money ran out, however, Pandora struggled to raise more cash as Westergren's pitch to more than 300 VCs during that period fell on deaf ears. He laid off the staff unless they worked for free, but eventually it paid off. Pandora went public in 2011.
Huge difference is those companies have a history of delivering product and developing. All Anovos is good at is taking your money and then ignoring/blocking you if you demand something for your money other than a ....
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MR got the license just fine after Icons and EFX got the license just fine after MR and then Anovos.
Licensers don't think the way you are suggesting.

Actually, I think the license that Anovos currently has is more likely similar to the on Museum Replicas have which is high end costuming replicas. The one held by Icons, then Master Replicas, then eFx I believe is in the area of prop replicas.

...But your I agree the sentiment of your statements
 
I agree with you. What I consider to be better may not what someone else considers to be better. Everyone has to decide for themselves.

For my collection I make as much of it as I can for myself because I have certain standards that I desire for my work. For the pieces I buy I tend to modify them to my needs, even if it's just a few small tweaks.

I would never try to disparage someone just because they can't spend several thousand on a costume or anything like that. Far from it. We all work within budgets and I'm no exception. Most people get into this hobby getting cheap items because we don't want to invest too much. Often we improve or replace items over time to get closer to the real thing. I know you and I have both been in this hobby for decades as are most of the people here so there is a certain level of detail that we want for our items.

My main point was to suggest that doing smaller runs of items often can make the process of retaining quality high, lesson wait times, and that would apply to companies like Anovos the same as it would to an individual fan maker.

I think what makes this situation so frustrating is that this company was founded by fans who saw the problems that had plagued the license holders in the past and now they are making the same mistakes which to my mind speaks volumes about the conundrum of trying to deliver high end products on a scale this large. That's not an excuse for bad business practices, but simply my observation on the issue as a whole.
 
You’ve only stated reasons for them to improve.
FYI, being licensed is not a trivial matter.
Ever have or heard of having an eBay listing VEROd? That can’t happen with a licensed replica.

I don't think it can be done. I don't think they can match the accuracy, cost, and delivery times of unlicensed producers.

Now, if a large company had a special division for this type of thing, then yes, I think it could be done.
 
I mean I had thought what if the people who worked on the films themselves were able to somehow form a company that held the license to make these items available? The resources they have might be better suited? Idk. I'm just theorizing here.
 
I'd thought of that but I thought it was later revealed that they actually hadn't worked on the films.
 
I mean I had thought what if the people who worked on the films themselves were able to somehow form a company that held the license to make these items available? The resources they have might be better suited? Idk. I'm just theorizing here.

That reminds me... Who is responsible for the lightsabers on display at the Cargo Hold at Disney World studios?
 
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