Man, for all of those words it doesn't feel any better... No clarity on their plan to deal with all of the back orders, etc. (they didn't say all items currently on back order will receive an update, nor did they say how they plan to manage those orders that are not delivered to the new time lines) and it came across as if they are going to cut down their product line. In other words sounded very hollow......
ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)
- Thread starter Art Andrews
- Start date
What a load of crap.
"In the early years of the company, we relied on experience gained from time spent within the fan community and applied it to our business, focusing on craftsmanship, quality, and accuracy. We were small, nimble and able to react quickly."
At what point in their business, has Anovos been nimble and able to react quickly? I don't ever recall this feature of their business. In fact, I remember their business practically being a crowd-source funding method, where people invest in their product "early in the development process", then wait upwards of 3+ years as the product is being developed, produced, finished, then shipped. And in some cases, if not enough people invested in a particular product, the product was cancelled.
...Anovos was never nimble...
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Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
This acknowledgement a year ago would have been somewhat reasonable.
But for this to come up now, a week or so before Celebration, after a lot of people threatened to protest - or at least express their discontent - is BS.
Regardless, I'm not blaming Anovos anymore. We allowed ourselves to be taken advantage of - or at least I have. And I've learned my lesson.
I'll wait for the rest of my stuff, then move on.
Good luck with your new business model.
Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
*shrugs*
Not sure what you guys expected, I guess.
This is more candid than they’ve been before about the issues they have to deal with (some of the issues, but this doesn’t account for their lack of responses to refund requests or things like that.) I’d like to have learned more, obviously, but this is a start. The fact that the email linking to this page said it was the “second in a series of updates about changes at Anovos” gives me hope that we’ll get more soon.
I think they’re on the right track with what they’re saying so far. If what they’re proposing to do going forward as far as better delivery estimates and somewhat scaling down of what they’re producing actually happens, I think that’s a good thing. We’ll see.
Not sure what you guys expected, I guess.
This is more candid than they’ve been before about the issues they have to deal with (some of the issues, but this doesn’t account for their lack of responses to refund requests or things like that.) I’d like to have learned more, obviously, but this is a start. The fact that the email linking to this page said it was the “second in a series of updates about changes at Anovos” gives me hope that we’ll get more soon.
I think they’re on the right track with what they’re saying so far. If what they’re proposing to do going forward as far as better delivery estimates and somewhat scaling down of what they’re producing actually happens, I think that’s a good thing. We’ll see.
Weldon
New Member
They said they put the brakes on pre-orders around May 2018, which was about the time I ordered the Skywalker x-wing helmet and TLJ stormtrooper helmet that has already missed a couple of deadlines, but it also seems that I recall an awful lot of other new items for pre-order since (EE-3, for one) even very recently. It seems, to me, that a reasonable plan would be to not create more work/products, until they can take care of the prior orders (using all of their resources) and demonstrate ability to produce. But, as has been suggested, they probably have no funding without new orders coming in. For now, all they are really promising somewhat longer, possibly still woefully inaccurate, lead times for new preorders. Applying a bandaid and kicking the can down the road.
Fett_Ish
Sr Member
I would say the only thing they could say that would make people happy is exact dates and refunds go out tomorrow, and then they wouldn't be believed because of past problems. They waited too long to say this, probably in the hopes that issues would get resolved and not wanting to deal with the backlash that is now upon them. They are now in a no win situation with a few different segments of the consumer. Those that want refunds and have waited forever will be angry it took so long and that they didn't get their stuff which is really what they wanted. Those that hang in will be angry it took so long (some will be happy with product, some will say the quality is bad, some will expect perfection for as long as it has taken, no one will say it was worth the wait I imagine) I hope everyone gets refunds, I hope the rest get their stuff, and I hope Anovos pulls out of the tailspin as I try to hope for the best for all concerned. Damning anyone is just a sad way to live ones days. Would hate to see anyone lose a job especially these days. Meanwhile I'll just keep waiting and hoping......
As far as I'm concerned, maybe I'm just a little impatient. Because I've seen this kind of statement before with little results to follow.
What I would expect at this stage is a bullet point of all the items that are behind schedule with a due date next to each item.
If there are no due dates for all of them, then provide us with some dates for some items.
If there are no due dates for any of the items, then this is pointless.
This fluff is simply to minimize potential damage at Celebration.
It's a good start, sure. But it's too late for this kind of fluffy tone. Dana and I (Joe) started ANOVOS as fans with a passion for making costumes and props at a professional level. > Gimme a break.
I sent Anovos (a lot) of money 20 months ago because I have a passion for stuff - and am nowhere near receiving what I fully paid for. How does that sound?
.....just venting, Jagjaguwar. Nothing against you at all. I need green tea....
Serenity
Master Member
(Edited)
For a company so obsessed with "craftsmanship, quality, and accuracy" their Jyn Erso gloves sure say otherwise.
Edit: As Joatrash pointed out, their previous blog post was a short apology about things, so I'm removing that part of this post.
For a company so obsessed with "craftsmanship, quality, and accuracy" their Jyn Erso gloves sure say otherwise.
Edit: As Joatrash pointed out, their previous blog post was a short apology about things, so I'm removing that part of this post.
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Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
I don’t disagree. It is all still just talk, and it is coming too late. At this point I think there isn’t much goodwill they are going to earn from just explaining themselves. No matter how detailed they are. Things will improve if they DO something, and continue to do things that show these changes they’re saying are happening, are happening.
In the time I’ve been waiting for several orders (all cancelled now or received except one), I’ve gone back and forth between being annoyed or angry about all the delays and lack of communication, to being primarily apathetic, or where I’m at right now, which is a weird sort of “things will work out with this in time.” I found that over the course of many months, between EFX with the Scouts, and my Anovos orders, the waiting and perpetual feeling of annoyance was exhausting. So here we are.
My overall impression/ response to this new post from Anovos would be a sort of “Yes... and?”
I hope they realize this is not enough to make up for months/years of issues.
I dunno. Maybe what I’m drinking isn’t green tea, it’s Kool-Aid...
Well, they actually apologized in the first message. And while those Erso gloves look absolutely horrible, unbelievably far below their usual quality level, it would be interesting to know if the entire run was that bad or just that one set.
Yes, there is some damage control motive here due to Celebration coming up, but in the last couple of months people have been contacting Disney and Lucasfilm, even (apparently) managing to reach the liaison in charge of Anovos' license, so they're bound to be feeling heat from several directions.
I'll hold off canceling all my stuff for a little longer, until we see if this is truly a turning point for them or more fluff and stalling. The declaration is welcome, and pretty much admitting what many have speculated about. (I've had suits made in Asia that have taken 2-3 times the estimate to deliver because the tailor didn't do it right and had to start from scratch. And that was an experienced, well-known tailor! Tell some manufacturers they put a seam in the wrong place and they simply will not understand what the problem is.) But Anovos will have to follow this up with visible results asap. I'm not likely to order anything else until things start moving forward.
Serenity
Master Member
You're correct on that one, I didn't see their earlier blog post. Thanks for pointing it out.
Posted this to Facebook but wanted to share here too... (FWIW I also posted it to their letter in the comments but have little expectation it will be approved)
Everything in the latest excuse letter is all well and good but here’s a simple solution. Do not offer pre-sales for anything that doesn’t have a final approved prototype from the manufacturer. It’s that simple.
Step one - Create a prototype in house.
Step two - Post images of a prototype and offer an opportunity for people to mark themselves as interested (hint - no money exchanges hands).
Step three - If there is enough interest then contract a manufacturer to build a prototype. Let the manufacturer subcontract all of the component pieces so you don’t have to coordinate.
Step four - Once a final approved prototype exits and you know how long production will take and what the cost to make it is, calculate your upcharge and price it. Then, and only then, offer a presale where a deposit is paid.
This manages expectations and gives more concrete idea of cost and delivery schedule.
All of the pre-approval stuff should happen well before any customer pays anything.
Do not finance your operations with your customers interest free credit and a future promise to potentially deliver a product.
It’s your company, if you cannot raise capital and investment to fund your operations then decisions have to be made in either abandonment or scale.
I did also mention in my comment on their page that for the most part I was happy with everything I received. I further suggested that when they do get to the point of ordering a run from the manufacturer they should budget to order 5% more of every size. There will be exchanges due to mis-sizing or defects. Customers should not have to wait for another production run that may never happen to get an exchange.
Everything in the latest excuse letter is all well and good but here’s a simple solution. Do not offer pre-sales for anything that doesn’t have a final approved prototype from the manufacturer. It’s that simple.
Step one - Create a prototype in house.
Step two - Post images of a prototype and offer an opportunity for people to mark themselves as interested (hint - no money exchanges hands).
Step three - If there is enough interest then contract a manufacturer to build a prototype. Let the manufacturer subcontract all of the component pieces so you don’t have to coordinate.
Step four - Once a final approved prototype exits and you know how long production will take and what the cost to make it is, calculate your upcharge and price it. Then, and only then, offer a presale where a deposit is paid.
This manages expectations and gives more concrete idea of cost and delivery schedule.
All of the pre-approval stuff should happen well before any customer pays anything.
Do not finance your operations with your customers interest free credit and a future promise to potentially deliver a product.
It’s your company, if you cannot raise capital and investment to fund your operations then decisions have to be made in either abandonment or scale.
I did also mention in my comment on their page that for the most part I was happy with everything I received. I further suggested that when they do get to the point of ordering a run from the manufacturer they should budget to order 5% more of every size. There will be exchanges due to mis-sizing or defects. Customers should not have to wait for another production run that may never happen to get an exchange.
darthjones
Sr Member
Noooooo no no no no, Dana and Joe -
Not only have you encountered problems (yes, legitimate ones) in your business, you also do not know how to work customer relations.
First of all, the apologies are nice but do nothing at this point. There is no point in telling us how Anovos will restructure because too many people here are not going to buy anything else until EVERYTHING else is delivered.
So skip that.
The ONLY thing we want is a FOR SURE list of dates as to when backorders will FOR CERTAIN be shipped.
Additionally, you say in this new song and dance that items were sent back 4-6 times to a manufacturer for improvements - was this going on WHILE you were telling us that these same items would be here "next season?!" That is called a lie, dudes.
There was no one anywhere preventing you from offering more responsible estimates on wait time. Customer after customer after customer out here has said, requested, and demanded that you be OPEN about your estimates and, "valued" though you say we are, you did not listen.
Today's "update" is little more than a call for sympathy - that you went to the mat to get the accuracy you (and we) are after. But you are SUPPOSED to be doing this!!! IF YOU WANTED US ON YOUR SIDE YOU NEEDED TO INCLUDE US IN SOME OF THE TWISTS AND TURNS!!!
More specifically -
Your update with regard to accuracy has nothing to do with me for the following reasons:
A YEAR ago I was specifically told by the official Anovos update that my costume was totally finished. That they were all finished.
So concerns of "accuracy" are done - have nothing to do with it. Nothing.
And just recently the word was that some ship was bringing everything over to the U.S. for final delivery.
EXCEPT THE ONLY THING ON BOARD THE SHIP WERE REY COSTUMES!!!!
How does your begging for sympathy, and even my granting of sympathy, address this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not only have you encountered problems (yes, legitimate ones) in your business, you also do not know how to work customer relations.
First of all, the apologies are nice but do nothing at this point. There is no point in telling us how Anovos will restructure because too many people here are not going to buy anything else until EVERYTHING else is delivered.
So skip that.
The ONLY thing we want is a FOR SURE list of dates as to when backorders will FOR CERTAIN be shipped.
Additionally, you say in this new song and dance that items were sent back 4-6 times to a manufacturer for improvements - was this going on WHILE you were telling us that these same items would be here "next season?!" That is called a lie, dudes.
There was no one anywhere preventing you from offering more responsible estimates on wait time. Customer after customer after customer out here has said, requested, and demanded that you be OPEN about your estimates and, "valued" though you say we are, you did not listen.
Today's "update" is little more than a call for sympathy - that you went to the mat to get the accuracy you (and we) are after. But you are SUPPOSED to be doing this!!! IF YOU WANTED US ON YOUR SIDE YOU NEEDED TO INCLUDE US IN SOME OF THE TWISTS AND TURNS!!!
More specifically -
Your update with regard to accuracy has nothing to do with me for the following reasons:
A YEAR ago I was specifically told by the official Anovos update that my costume was totally finished. That they were all finished.
So concerns of "accuracy" are done - have nothing to do with it. Nothing.
And just recently the word was that some ship was bringing everything over to the U.S. for final delivery.
EXCEPT THE ONLY THING ON BOARD THE SHIP WERE REY COSTUMES!!!!
How does your begging for sympathy, and even my granting of sympathy, address this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I own Anovos products. Good ones. But this letter is very much a while-we-take-responsibility-it's-not-out-fault type of statement. "Look, guys, we are PASSIONATE fans like you, ok? And we want everything to be perfect, because were are OCD about it. It's not our fault that working with Asian factories is so hard. We're just trying to stick up for the fans, and delivery top notch product that meets our demanding specifications."
And as others have said, just build it here in the US. Staying with the SW license for now, I am assuming that Lucasfilm merchandising/royalty fees are $$$$$, and cut into a lot of the potential profit. So getting it cheaply from overseas fabrication is VERY tempting. But in the end, it seems to have bit Anovos in the butt. You shouldn't have to send items back 6 times for serious quality issues, not when replica props are laser scanned/digitized/3D modeled/computer templated and resin 3D printed to death FIRST, relatively inexpensively. From your office. In the United States.
Not ONCE does it mention REFUNDING MONEY FOR UNDELIVERED PRODUCTS, or providing some other form of reimbursement. I assume that is because they do not have the money for refunds, and these trial balloons/pre-orders are to handle current day-to-day expenses. As a partner in a business, I can tell you that you can't make enough new profit to catch up, not in a niche market such as replica props and collectibles. There's just not a big enough market to sell enough product at a high enough margin to recoup.
My worthless 2 cents? Concentrate on your unfinished resin Fett blaster and stormtrooper blaster kits (and the like). You could even do sabers this way. The hobbyists and collectors can assemble / paint / weather / modify them to their heart's content. Make some quick and easy cash. Hold off on soft goods and doo-dads for now (key fobs/chains/plaques etc). Anovos, want to roll in some extra dough? Offer an unfinished, unassembled Fett bucket. Make it $200 U.S. It can be done quickly, here in the U.S
And as others have said, just build it here in the US. Staying with the SW license for now, I am assuming that Lucasfilm merchandising/royalty fees are $$$$$, and cut into a lot of the potential profit. So getting it cheaply from overseas fabrication is VERY tempting. But in the end, it seems to have bit Anovos in the butt. You shouldn't have to send items back 6 times for serious quality issues, not when replica props are laser scanned/digitized/3D modeled/computer templated and resin 3D printed to death FIRST, relatively inexpensively. From your office. In the United States.
Not ONCE does it mention REFUNDING MONEY FOR UNDELIVERED PRODUCTS, or providing some other form of reimbursement. I assume that is because they do not have the money for refunds, and these trial balloons/pre-orders are to handle current day-to-day expenses. As a partner in a business, I can tell you that you can't make enough new profit to catch up, not in a niche market such as replica props and collectibles. There's just not a big enough market to sell enough product at a high enough margin to recoup.
My worthless 2 cents? Concentrate on your unfinished resin Fett blaster and stormtrooper blaster kits (and the like). You could even do sabers this way. The hobbyists and collectors can assemble / paint / weather / modify them to their heart's content. Make some quick and easy cash. Hold off on soft goods and doo-dads for now (key fobs/chains/plaques etc). Anovos, want to roll in some extra dough? Offer an unfinished, unassembled Fett bucket. Make it $200 U.S. It can be done quickly, here in the U.S
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Delivery Expectations: In the next few weeks we will be updating our expected delivery dates. After an exhaustive analysis of the past five years, we now have a more accurate assessment of how long the average product takes to manufacture. While this won't correct past issues, it does help ensure that your expectations are properly set when you purchase an item from us. Secondly, because we will also have parallel manufacturing in the USA, we are able to better ensure a shorter timeline for more products.
If that sentence alone isn't one of the most passive aggressive responses to valid customer concerns then I don't know what is. What they are basically saying is:
It's only taken us five years to figure out that we bit off more than we can chew. Given that we can't go back and fix OUR mistakes, YOU need to ensure that YOU manage your expectations when you buy from us. AKA: You acknowledge that if you purchase anything from us, you will tolerate any delay or excuse we make and by giving us your money you agree to those terms. Including waiting several years to receive your product or a refund.
Internal Growth: We remain proud of our products and are equally proud of our project managers who have evolved along with this process. They have continued to respond admirably to the ever-changing demands we placed on them and have seen us through the worst of times. They are working hard to constantly upgrade our procedures, and we have already seen huge improvements in all aspects of our production schedule. Many products that have been long delayed are finally starting to ship to you. Our faith in them has never been more steadfast.
A nice self congratulatory paragraph. Because nothing says sorry better than patting yourself on the back.
And yet none of this announcement ever says the words, apology, or sorry.
I don't have money in this but reading this makes my blood boil. No wonder people are planning a protest. This announcement is DAMAGE CONTROL. This isn't an apology.
It's also not a definitive course of action that is going to answer fans concerns about deliveries or refunds.
**** this company.
If that sentence alone isn't one of the most passive aggressive responses to valid customer concerns then I don't know what is. What they are basically saying is:
It's only taken us five years to figure out that we bit off more than we can chew. Given that we can't go back and fix OUR mistakes, YOU need to ensure that YOU manage your expectations when you buy from us. AKA: You acknowledge that if you purchase anything from us, you will tolerate any delay or excuse we make and by giving us your money you agree to those terms. Including waiting several years to receive your product or a refund.
Internal Growth: We remain proud of our products and are equally proud of our project managers who have evolved along with this process. They have continued to respond admirably to the ever-changing demands we placed on them and have seen us through the worst of times. They are working hard to constantly upgrade our procedures, and we have already seen huge improvements in all aspects of our production schedule. Many products that have been long delayed are finally starting to ship to you. Our faith in them has never been more steadfast.
A nice self congratulatory paragraph. Because nothing says sorry better than patting yourself on the back.
And yet none of this announcement ever says the words, apology, or sorry.
I don't have money in this but reading this makes my blood boil. No wonder people are planning a protest. This announcement is DAMAGE CONTROL. This isn't an apology.
It's also not a definitive course of action that is going to answer fans concerns about deliveries or refunds.
**** this company.
I am not sure why you feel this is fluff. It is an accurate statement about the two of them. ANOVOS was started by two fans (who came directly out of this community and TDH) who started as unlicensed prop makers and eventually got licensed.
darthjones
Sr Member
We love what Dana and Joe are attempting. They ARE us, granted. But every single Anovos customer has had nothing but empty updates and postponements all along that there is no longer any appetite for anything other than hard, concrete results.
For instance, I was told over a FULL year ago - March 9th, 2018, that, "This item has completed production and is on its way to our fulfillment center." That very obviously means that it is finished and just has to be mailed. I was fine with that. Yeah, I bought it in 2016 but everything was now cool because it is on its way and nothing having to do with accuracy or anything of the sort (the core of today's update) had anything to do with it.
Over a year ago.
The hardships of "accuracy" all taken care of.
And based on that seriously irresponsible update, last year, I am now stupidly another $500 in with shoes, weapon, voice changer, etc. because I was FLAT OUT told that it was on its way. And even if delayed by a month or two, fine.
But today is totally fluff because it does not bring me any results or any understanding as to why Anovos will not send me a product which THEY have said is completely done and now sitting there for a year.
They even flat out told me it was on a specific ship and it was not.
So how does today's update help? Dana and Joe needed to speak directly too us about one year ago with this tone and seeming degree of openness.
How am I/ we out of line?
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