Am I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

GotWookiee

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The other week I decided to pop in the original trilogy and watch them again while I worked on some costuming projects. This is the first time I have watched them in a while.

I had really forgotten how great Star Wars and Empire really are. The lead up to the battle against the first Death Star, even though I have seen it many times, is filled with tension and excitement. Just brilliantly edited. Luke's decision to leave Tatooine and learn the ways of the Force, Han showing up at the end to save his bacon, are all as thrilling as ever.
And funny, too! Star Wars has allot of humor. The endless banter between Han and Leia in both films is really funny. Threepio's moment where he thinks Luke is getting crushed in the trash compactor is hilarious.
Han is so cool, so badass. Even when he's in love with Leia he's still a cocky, arrogant, *******.
And Empire, wow. Star Wars is a great film, but Empire is a masterpiece of cinema. Yoda is such a compelling and interesting character. Luke's struggle with the Dark Side is so well done here. There is a great deal of suspense when he leaves to go rescue his friends with his training and skills still incomplete. His final decision to choose death rather than join his father is by far the most powerful moment in the entire saga.
The end of Empire, with all the cliffhangers; Han's fate, the identity of "the other" that Yoda mentioned, the truth of Luke's parentage and what that meant for him. So compelling, so epic.

On the third evening of mold making I watched Return of the Jedi. Over the years I have grown less and less fond of this film. It's a bit too cute, much of it feels like a Disney version of the earlier films, and most of the main characters have nothing to do except participate in the battle and lack any dramatic responsibilities.

Jedi has a few moments here and there, but is overwhelmingly a bad film. It runs just like a season premiere of a TV show, where they wrap up the epic cliffhanger from the previous season finale in the first act, then it's back to business as usual.

Boba Fett was a pretty interesting character in Empire; he was the only guy that could talk back to Vader and get away with it. He had allot of potential. Here he is reduced to background scenery and is casually killed off for laughs.
That's another problem. In Empire of Dreams, Irvin Kershner said he knew he needed humor in Empire, but not gags. Jedi doesn't have much humor, but has lots of gags (mostly not funny, like the lame jokes in the prequels). Whether it's Fett's death or almost every scene with the Ewoks, or Chewie doing the Tarzan as he takes over a walker, this film has lots of lame gags.

Do I even need to mention the Ewoks? Threepio being worshiped as a god? Han and Chewie on the barbecue? A tribe of cudly teddy bears with nothing more than bows and arrows overcoming an Empire with galactic civilization and the capability to build planet-destroying, moon-sized space craft in secret? Really?

Yoda is also killed off early in the film, and "the other" turns out to be Leia who is really his sister. What a disappointment. Earlier drafts had the search for Luke's sister be a major plot point.
Luke finding out that he is Vader's son created a serious continuity issue with the first film, so Obi-Wan explains it with the most trite and ridiculous retcon of all time; the "certain point of view" speech.

The rest of the film essentially follows standard Hollywood sequel formula; do what you did list time, but bigger, better, and louder. The original Death Star battle was exhilarating and dramatic, so they repeat it here but on a much larger scale.
The first Death Star battle worked so well not only because it was visually exciting, but because it was driven by the characters and the story. In the end, the DS battle was crucial to completing both Luke and Han's dramatic arcs. Luke relies on the Force and destroys the Death Star; realizing his potential and becoming the hero he had always dreamed of. Han has his change of heart and becomes a good guy in the end.
In Jedi, Han, Chewie, Leia, Lando, and the droids are just fighting and participating in action scenes. There isn't any real character development or drama going on for them anymore.

For Luke, we have another duel with Darth Vader and a rehash of his struggle with the Dark Side, but it lacks the dramatic tension of the duel in Empire because there is less at stake here. Luke already faced the Dark Side and chose to fall to his death rather than turn. You can't top that with another lightsaber fight. In Empire Luke was still wet behind the ears and Vader was very powerful. By Jedi Luke's skills have surpassed those of his father to the point that he can quite fighting when he wants to, and when he finally attacks, he quickly overpowers and defeats Vader.

Jedi has it's moments. Luke emerging from the desert like a badass and just kicking everyone's ass and saving his friends single handedly is pretty exciting. And when he stands up to the Emperor and declares that he will never turn to the Dark Side, it really gives me goose bumps, as does Vader's decision to save Luke and kill the Emperor.

But overall, Jed is pretty weak, and you can easily see all the problems that so many had with the Prequels starting here.

Thoughts? Am the only that is bothered with Jedi seems to get a free pass as a "great movie" when comparing the holy trilogy to the prequels?
 
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Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

Yeah, nostalgia only goes so far.

Say what you want 'bout the prequels, but Jedi ain't that much better.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I could not agree more, and I'll add this for effect...Ewoks, suck dude:lol:thumbsup
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

Your inner child is dead.

You grew up.

I weep for you.

That's all it is.

The rest is fanboy postering.

Move along. Move along.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

Well, kids are stupid; so I'm glad I grew up.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

It is my least favorite of the original 3, but I still like it and it has it's moments.

For me you could edit out all of the movie except for scenes with Darth Vader in them and the plot and story would still hold up. Those scenes are what the movie is about, all the rest is 'filler'.

I will say that the scene between Luke and Vader on Endor at the landing platform is probably my favorite scene in any SW movie. I like it because usually Vader is either being a badass and yelling at everyone, or he's Tarkins or the Emperor's lap dog taking orders. In this scene, Vader seems like a regular guy, a father talking to his son about a new lightsaber, talking to Luke like he sees Luke as a grown man and an equal. I like that Vader just 'talks' to Luke. And after Luke is taken away, it's the only time I think where the camera stays on Vader while he thinks- questioning himself and self-searching for answers. Plus Vader just found out he had a son like 4 years earlier after 20 years of not knowing about Luke at all, and this is the first time Vader has spent any time with his son just talking.

Good stuff in there.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I usually pop in the disc and just fast-forward to the Death Star battle bits. :)
The sound effect as Wedge's X-wing swoops around and passes the camera is pure awesomeness.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I was a Sr. in HS when it came out. I thought it was, and still is fine. The weakest of the 3, yes, a bad movie, no, not even close It was nice to see the Empire get it's ass handed to it, even if by teddy bears, and remember, this isn't the "Special Edition" crap I saw either, I like the Yub Nub song better than the revised one.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

Pretty accurate summation. The first film's feel and success I have always attributed to the editing done by Lucas's wife at the time, and Kershner was certainly the man behind Empire. Jedi is all Lucas as is evidenced by it's similarity in many way with the prequels. I keep hearing people say this "inner child" and similar stuff. My brother as well as many others were adults when ANH first hit the screen and were impressed with the overall feel of this movie as well as Empire which followed. Sure, they had some problems, but regardless and for whatever reason, still seemed to be able to hold their own and fair pretty decent even in adult, casual fan type circles, whereas the others don't do so well. There are major differences in these films, both film to film and trilogy to trilogy. The best example and one I frequently cite when this same line of thought is put forth, is the experience I had with my father. I considered him to be largely impartial, having no emotional investment in the films whatsoever. We watched the entire saga over a couple of evenings. Of all the films he enjoyed ANH and ESB fairly well, the others he remarked seemed childish. I think that pretty much sums up my estimation of things as well.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

ewoks suck Slave Leia awesome Boba Fetts death sucked Lightsaber battles great, Jedi a good movie, prequels bite my nutsack episode 1 the worst, almost as bad as Galactica 1980
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

Don't get me wrong, I far from hated it...but as a third grader seeing this I was just dissapointed at seeing little bears hand it to the empire:lol I did enjoy several things about the movie, like seeing the Emperor for the first time, the force lighting was hardcore. Seeing Han get rescued from Jabba (who we saw for the first time), and seeing those freaking awesome speederbikes fly through the endor forest! Also loved seeing the Rancor eat the Gamorean guard, but the crying trainer was weak. Leia being Luke's sister...not so much of a good thing eigther:thumbsdown
BZZZZZZ.jpg

han_leia_wtf_comic.jpg

I still watch it and enjoy it though:thumbsup
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I hear your arguments, and largely agree, but I think overall it's still a good SW film. The only thing I can't deal with the the Leia/Luke/Han conversations outside the Ewok hut. "Hold me!" I can't watch it. It's almost as bad as the AOTC love scenes for cringe inducing cheese.

Still, the good parts faaaaaar outweigh the bad. It's the worst of the OT, but the drop wouldn't have seemed quite as steep if Empire wasn't so friggin brilliant. And it still has more soul than anything in the PT, though I think there are parts of ROTS that are, over all, more well handled.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

its all about ESB for me. i like a few ships from the prequels (radiant VII) but nothing compares to Empire.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I saw ROTJ on opening day. The ewoks were weak, but all in all I felt satisfied. I felt it brought closure to the trilogy, and now we could all "move along". Seemed that a lot more than 6 years had gone by since the original SW release!

In the mid 80s, the USA was in a different place. SW was birthed in the 70s and had that "feel" to it. SW died, really. Toys were on sale at huge discounts, stores were just trying to get rid of their left over action figures. Kenner's attempt to resurrect the line with the Power of the Force line failed. The 2 ewok made for Tv movies were laughable, and the Droids cartoon series didn't last.

It was really Timothy Zahn was single handedly brought the interest back. Lucas was smart to join with Disney for Star Tours, and home computers helped tap into the nostalgia to put SW adventures at home.
 
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Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

ROTJ is absolute gold when compared to the prequels.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

The film was FANTASTIC, until Han&Co get trapped in that stupid ******* net. You can definitely tell who thought that yuk up. The Ewoks sucked, and still suck, but I take a truck load of Ewoks over Jar-Jars.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

The Ewoks were Jar Jar prototypes. I liked the first two of the originals the most. Sadly Lucas has done a good job of killing SW by making all the novels apparently non-cannon and generally selling out to anyone with a dime to offer. Sad really as i had anything to do with the models, books, and gadgets.
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

I agree with your points, and I think you summed it up well. I found your post well-articulated and thought out.

I'm no filmmaker, just a movie-goer, so my opinions about how the movie should have been aren't worth too much in a professional sense. But either way, I thought someone should have died early on. Han would have been a good one to bite the dust.

I think it would have upped the tension for the other characters. The whole thing felt like a tired sequel to me. I thought it started well. The first time we see Luke in ROTJ, he's dressed in all black and force-chokes the two guards. Wicked, I thought. He's Vader's son for sure.

I just didn't feel the conflict about Luke's character in this one.

Anyway. Decent flick all around. I agree, though, that Empire has it goin' on. :)

Andy
 
Re: I'm I the only one that thinks Return of the Jedi is a turkey?

For me Jedi is better than the prequels but still a far cry from Star Wars and Empire. I'm apparently one of the few that values Star Wars over Empire but I love them both. Jedi is really a precursor to the prequels in style IMHO. But to each his own...
 
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