Aliens: Colonial Marines

[JOATRASH FX]

Frak Gearbox, frak Randy, hope they crash n' burn into bankruptcy

There are a million reasons that could have caused ACM (which, while bad, wasn't THAT bad) to end up like it did. To blame one person, just because it's him you see in most of the press, isn't likely to stop similar things from happening again. Even the CEO of a company has people to answer to as well- shareholders, executives at publishers and so on. We don't know what really happened behind the scenes, despite the various writings in the media. However, based on experience, I am pretty sure that what unfolded was a complicated string of events- the internal politics that goes on behind the doors of AAA developers and publishers can be pretty insane. (Which is why I myself got out of "AAA".) The unfortunate truth is that making a game... any game... usually means reinventing the wheel from scratch about 1000 times each time and when you attempt that, there are bound to be problems. Sometimes those problems cause a catastrophic meltdown, occasionally they result in a 95+ title that sells millions.

I've only even looked at Borderlands for a couple minutes, so I can't comment on how good or bad that game is. (I'm not a general fan of Gearbox either... I know very little about them specifically so I'm writing more in general terms.)

What I can tell you is that no one in the games industry goes into these things with anything less than the ambition of making the best game possible with the resources they have available. (Just like even the worst c-grade direct-to-video film is a labor of love for someone.) Making a game involves too much work, anxiety and heartache to be worthwhile otherwise. Even when someone's Titanic is going down, they will do what they can to salvage whatever possible.

Regarding bankruptcy... there are likely a lot of very talented people working their asses off at Gearbox that had nothing to do with the ACM situation and to wish them to be out of a job (which often involves uprooting the family and relocating) is disheartening.

Now, I'm not defending bad products here. Bad products definitely don't deserve anyone's money. But the pitchforks and torches are held unreasonably high for ACM- there are worse offenders out there, though not as high-profile.

I wanted to love ACM too, I really did. (Hell, I'm a big enough fan of Aliens that I once proposed to a girl by referencing the film.) It was a "breaking point" for many, because of the hopes everyone had for it and as such, got shouldered with blame that goes well beyond one title.

One thing is for certain though- Creative Assembly have a lot of eyes on them. I hope they are able to make the game they want and don't feel too much pressure to "save" the franchise and please everyone, or get drunk on the attention they are getting, because that could lead them down a very bad road.

Incidentally... have y'all seen all the talk about how they did all the "static" and scratchy-VHS video effects and how innovative they are, by filming televisions and scrunching the tape? Heck, I was doing that stuff a ages ago for a game I worked on. Shameless, personal plug, yes... but true! : )

 

[Solo4114]

I still haven't bought or played this game. For that matter, I haven't gotten very far in the AVP game that came out in 2010. I tend to prefer to play these on PC in "god mode" but, alas, no god mode anymore for whatever reason.

As for this game and Gearbox, they've done well with other games. Hell, a lot of times this has far more to do with the publisher's ridiculous expectations than it does with the developer. I used to blame SOE for the crapfest that was Star Wars: Galaxies, but really they were just the public face. The main culprit was LucasArts during its decade-long death-spiral. But nobody really understood that until much later. If Gearbox short-changed ACM and used the cash from it to fund Borderlands 2...that'd probably be the kind of breach of contract that would basically kill the developer. Because what publisher is going to give you money, only to have you shaft their game and polish a different one?

Anyway, I guess we'll see where this lawsuit goes, but I'm not surprised it hasn't actually gone anywhere thus far.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

Hell, a lot of times this has far more to do with the publisher's ridiculous expectations than it does with the developer.

Publishers take a lot of unwarranted flak though. Competent game developers that don't over-promise or under deliver are hard to find. I've been in situations (more than once) where the publisher is saying "we don't think you can do this" and the developer still insisted that it could, only to fail spectacularly when the deadline came rolling along. But it goes both ways of course. For example, I've had a marketing department one time (many years ago) completely destroy a strong, meticulously written female character because they needed a "sexy poster girl" (I kid you not) and in came the unrealistically tight leather, bare cleavage and breast-armor-space-suit that made no sense whatsoever! I've worked both for publishers and developers and I could tell you horror stories from both sides of the fence...

 

[Solo4114]

Publishers take a lot of unwarranted flak though. Competent game developers that don't over-promise or under deliver are hard to find. I've been in situations (more than once) where the publisher is saying "we don't think you can do this" and the developer still insisted that it could, only to fail spectacularly when the deadline came rolling along. But it goes both ways of course. For example, I've had a marketing department one time (many years ago) completely destroy a strong, meticulously written female character because they needed a "sexy poster girl" (I kid you not) and in came the unrealistically tight leather, bare cleavage and breast-armor-space-suit that made no sense whatsoever! I've worked both for publishers and developers and I could tell you horror stories from both sides of the fence...

Oh, I'm sure there's blame enough to go around in the industry. It's not as if it lies exclusively with one entity or the other. The thing is, a lot of players have no idea how their games get made. They don't know who foots the bill vs. who cuts the checks vs. who advertises the stuff, and may often confuse and/or conflate responsibility. And I'm absolutely certain there are devs who overpromise and underproduce either because they mismanage or because they bite off more than they or anyone else could reasonably chew.

All I'm saying is when it comes to the failings of ACM, it's anyone's guess what the real story is. Might be Gearbox's fault, might be Sega's, might be a combination of the two.

From what I've heard, even patched up and working properly, the game's still pretty...meh. Just nothing special. Alas, such is the fate, apparently, of most Aliens/Predator franchise games.

 

[Jedi2016]

Pretty sure those were Gearbox guys in all those promo videos talking about how amazingly awesome their game was.

If they want to blame Sega, they can do it in front of the judge or jury when this goes to trial.

 

[Solo4114]

Pretty sure those were Gearbox guys in all those promo videos talking about how amazingly awesome their game was.

If they want to blame Sega, they can do it in front of the judge or jury when this goes to trial.

It may never go to trial, though. One of the plaintiffs is in jail, and the other, I think, settled with Gearbox. Most of this was dealt with during preliminary motions.

 

[The Terminator]

what a sellout :facepalm

 

[Wes R]

From what i read the one guy was settling with sega and as part of it he had to leave gearbox alone. With the other guy in jail it could all fall apart. Still Gearbox's name is dirt considering they're the ones hyping the game in all the videos and using the fake footage. I know i'll never give them my money, i'll buy all their stuff used if at all. I guarantee they used half the money for Borderlands 2, it's the only franchise they haven't run into the ground.

 

[The Terminator]

SEGA Tentatively Approves $1.25M Aliens: Colonial Marines Settlement
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08...es-settlement?abthid=53ea22db1131ca7d3d000004

 

[Wes R]

I love that it's not an admission or wrongdoing but they must really think the people have a case or it's just easier to pay the problem to go away.

 

[Solo4114]

Not necessarily. What they might recognize, though, is that they don't have enough of a slam-dunk response to shut down the endless motions and requests for documents or depositions that would cost everyone money. When the attorney on the plaintiff's side is probably working on a contingent fee basis, and when SEGA's attorneys are getting paid by the hour, it ends up being more economical to just shut the whole thing down rather than let it drag on.

I'm not a litigator, but my recollection of civil procedure and how these types of cases develop is that there are basically four phases where things are likely to end:

1. Initial filing of the case. If it's an absolute loser of a case, where it's 100% clear that the party being sued is in the wrong or it's gonna be so costly to defend that it's not really worth it, you settle. Example: you get into a car accident. You don't think it was your fault. Your insurance company doesn't really think it was your fault. The other person sues and claims a low enough number for damages (say, $50,000) that it's just cheaper for the insurance company to settle outright rather than fight it and pay legal fees.

2. Motion to dismiss. Each party gathers some information preliminarily, and the defending party files a motion to dismiss. This typically requires that there is no case here as a matter of law, meaning that the other side has claimed that they were somehow harmed in a way that the law does not address. In other words, they're making a legal argument that doesn't make sense. For example, if I sued you for copyright infringement because you recast some stormtrooper armor that I made, you'd file a motion to dismiss. Legally speaking, I have no right to bring that lawsuit because I'm not the owner of the copyright for Star Wars. It'd be like me saying that I was suing you for stealing something that I stole. The specific details of the case don't matter because, on its face, the case is nonsense.

3. Motion for summary judgment. After the motion to dismiss fails, we gather more information. Witnesses get interviewed on the record (deposed), documents are requested, arguments are made as to whether this or that document is protected by some privilege, etc. At the end of all of this, chances are, each side files a motion for summary judgement. This is somewhat more about the evidence of the case, but it's also still tied to the law. Basically, each side is claiming that, assuming the collection of facts they're asserting is true, is there a case. So, another example: I develop a new design for a trailer hitch, which I patent. You build a factory that makes trailer hitches which are very, very similar. I sue you for patent infringement. You file a motion to dismiss that says my trailer hitch couldn't legally be patented, and therefore I have no case (because I don't own the IP I claim to own). The judge denies the motion. You file a motion for summary judgment claiming that, in fact, you can prove that my trailer hitch is based on a previous design that someone else patented, and which you have the license to make. I file a motion that claims I can prove that I added something to the design which fundamentally changes it, and that it's my changed design that you copied. Your motion is denied because the judge notes that, even if we assume everything you say is true, legally speaking, you don't have a case because the mere fact that I copied PART of the design doesn't mean I don't still have a legal patent on my alteration of that design. My motion is granted because, again, assuming the facts that I asserted were true, I'd have a good case. Also, you FAILED to assert any fact to contradict my argument that you took my altered design (which is as if you are admitting that fact). Had you instead argued that your trailer hitch DOESN'T incorporate my altered design, we'd be deadlocked and the judge would probably deny both motions.

4. Trial. Now we're going to court, putting witnesses on the stand, filing motions about how one side or the other dropped the ball procedurally, maybe picking a jury or maybe just in front of a judge, who knows. Regardless, it's EXPENSIVE, and there are no guarantees. Both sides have to REALLY believe in their cases AND think it's worth duking it out, for things to get this far.

So, at any one of those steps, one of the sides may flinch and say "Ok, this has gone on long enough. How much to make us go away/for you to go away?" Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, factually speaking. It's more a question of thresholds, like, is the amount of money you could lose enough to justify fighting it the whole way, or is the likelihood of winning at trial and getting more money than what they're offering really that high, or whathaveyou.

This is why I don't look at a settlement as necessarily an indication of one party being at fault or any kind of admission. Sometimes it really is just cheaper to pay off the guy who's shaking you down so that he'll go away. Oh, and a settlement also does NOT act as legal precedent, whereas a judgment would. That's another consideration. If SEGA fought this the whole way and still lost, now not only do they lose the money and have to pay their attorneys for the whole fight, but they ALSO have a lawsuit out there that other future plaintiffs can rely on to make it easier for them to sue, and SEGA's job of defending itself is that much harder.

 

[The Terminator]

Totally, We didn't do anything wrong but here's some money anyhoo :facepalm

False advertising is wrong, m'kay?

 

[Solo4114]

I mean, believe what you want, but like I said, a settlement really isn't an admission of anything other than "This is easier to settle than to fight." But it could be "easier" for multiple reasons, and may not have anything to do with one party having done something wrong.


I think the SEGA vs. Gearbox case is gonna end up being far more interesting, since that's the kind of thing that could end up really hurting Gearbox.

 

[Wes R]

Maybe Sega's settling so they can focus on giving Gearbox a kick in the pants. I really want to know if they used money for this game to work on Borderlands 2. Maybe this will make game companies a bit more careful on how they promote stuff since they haven't learned from the Mass Effect debacle, slightly off topic but it turns out the controversial director of mass effect 3 just quit Bioware. Seems like most everyone involved with ME3 has left. Maybe that's what Gearbox needs: a shakeup in management.

 

[The Terminator]

slightly off topic but it turns out the controversial director of mass effect 3 just quit Bioware. Seems like most everyone involved with ME3 has left. Maybe that's what Gearbox needs: a shakeup in management.

Awesome news but too little, too late. Because of what they did with ME3.... I am NOT buying ME4, period. Will it affect them? No way, but that isn't the point.

 

[Solo4114]

Hell, I still haven't bought ME3 nor played ME2. I'd rather not invest the time in an unfinished trilogy. ME1 was great, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jeyl]

Hell, I still haven't bought ME3 nor played ME2. I'd rather not invest the time in an unfinished trilogy. ME1 was great, and I'll leave it at that.

Good. Very good.... No, I'm serious. The story to ME3 is so bad that it actually introduces an element that should have made the first Mass Effect game a flawless victory for the Reapers. That's straight Mortal Kombat terms. FLAWLESS VICTORY.

 

[CB2001]

I love that it's not an admission or wrongdoing but they must really think the people have a case or it's just easier to pay the problem to go away.

Or their settlement is like Taco Bell's "thank you for suing us" letter that they had displayed in all their stores after the ingredients if their meat was leaked.

 

[ghostryder]

Sega blames Gearbox for mismanaging Aliens: Colonial Marines marketing

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/3/6102035/sega-gearbox-lawsuit-aliens-colonial-marines

 

[Wes R]

As guilty as Sega is over not keeping a better eye on Gearbox a lot of the issues in all this are Gearbox and Gearbox alone. They sure don't seem to be doing much right now game wise, probably going to wear out Borderlands with another game. http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/0...oftware-does-not-own-the-duke-nukem-ip/79777/ Apparently gearbox is getting sued by 3d realms over duke nukem too. What a shady bunch.