AA case begins

[vaderdarth]

I agree Jez.

Dave

 

[Lord Abaddon]

I know I am coming in on this a little late, but wanted to voice my agreement with those who are saying the color issues with the armor is a result of lighting, not of the pieces being from different materials, etc.

I have to agree with that. Looking at the picture the shoulder bells and bracers most notably all seem to be similar in color to the helmet. It seems to me just to be lighting as well.

 

[Brian Muir]

TrooperMaster made a good point on TPD about the shade differences in the armor...what do people think about the possiblity that maybe the compad was put on the rear of BOTH the TIE and one or two TK helmets as a test....we know that there was only one TIE helmet (at least) with a compad on the rear instead of the pillbox...yet we don't see that onscreen (or at least cannot identify it for certain). So maybe AA also, just for variety's sake, put a compad on the rear of a TK helmet just as a test and that was what we see at Elstree but they discarded the idea of the compad on the rear of both the TIE and TK helmets? :confused But again we don't even know for sure who made the suit but a good point was made that the helmet looks just like the ones piled up in front of SDS at the time....including the brow piece which I thought AA sourced himself? Trust me I would much rather believe that this suit was a preliminary test suit that Elstree made but if they did such a good job on it why would they need AA?

Hi Thomas,

They needed to outsource the rest of the suits because they had problems with the vac forming machine at Elstree. I don't believe that it had anything to do with lack of skill at the Studios (as AA would have people believe) as they had been vac forming for years.

Brian

 

[SithLord]

Thanks, Brian, yes AA went on a lot about how they didn't have the expertise to form the complex shapes required for the costume....but from what you say, it almost seems like he had no idea what was going on at Elstree, their expertise, nor why the work was outsourced to him, because he claimed that he was the only one who had the means to do that kind of work....again disappointing to find out yet more of his self-aggrandizement. Or maybe he did actually know but made up the story anyway....

 

[Brian Muir]

Jez, you've answered your own question with that statement. It's cheaper to use non-union labor on a film with a strict budget.

Hi Qui - Gonzalez,

Just to clarify this point :

The guy operating the large vac forming machine in Elstree Studios, Tashy Baines, was earning £80 per week at that time. He had a workshop set up for some years at the Studios.

Ainsworth charged £385 per suit (exluding helmets) totalling £19,250 - this invoice was presented to the court.

To put this amount into perspective I earnt £2,200 for the 4 and a half months I was employed on A New Hope sculpting the main characters.

With all the different helmets and the stormtroopers Ainsworth made over £30,000 for doing a few months vac forming.

For all you youngsters out there £30,000 in today's money would equate to £450,000 approx.

Jez

Your description of the Ainsworth set up at the time as being a 'sweat shop' implies that it was a lot of work for very little pay but the opposite is the truth.

Brian

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Hi Qui - Gonzalez,

Just to clarify this point :

The guy operating the large vac forming machine in Elstree Studios, Tashy Baines, was earning £80 per week at that time. He had a workshop set up for some years at the Studios.

Ainsworth charged £385 per suit (exluding helmets) totalling £19,250 - this invoice was presented to the court.

To put this amount into perspective I earnt £2,200 for the 4 and a half months I was employed on A New Hope sculpting the main characters.

With all the different helmets and the stormtroopers Ainsworth made over £30,000 for doing a few months vac forming.

For all you youngsters out there £30,000 in today's money would equate to £450,000 approx.

Jez

Your description of the Ainsworth set up at the time as being a 'sweat shop' implies that it was a lot of work for very little pay but the opposite is the truth.

Brian

Well, there goes my theory that contract labor was cheaper. Thanks for the clarification, Brian.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Jez

Your description of the Ainsworth set up at the time as being a 'sweat shop' implies that it was a lot of work for very little pay but the opposite is the truth.

Brian

Hi Brian - sorry, that was not my intention. Just meant outsourcing the grunt work.

Given the figures youve provided it sounds like they must have had a very good reason to spend £30k in outsourcing the work - against keeping it in-house for a mere fraction of that .

Cheers

Jez

 

[mverta]

If it's like 99.9% of other productions, "clean-up" vendors get hugely inflated amounts for rescuing a production late in the schedule, when the producers are nervous about the problem and throwing money at it. Happens all the time.

That's why they say in Hollywood the rats try to get on a sinking ship.



_Mike

 

[Lord Abaddon]

Hi Brian,

Since "on the cheap" wasn't the case with Andrew, is it possible that Elstree was working on several non-SW projects at the same time and couldn't accommodate the demands of Star Wars? Or that Star Wars had such a huge amount of vac-formed production items that Elstree was overwhelmed, hence they went outside and hired Andrew?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Hi Brian,

Since "on the cheap" wasn't the case with Andrew, is it possible that Elstree was working on several non-SW projects at the same time and couldn't accommodate the demands of Star Wars? Or that Star Wars had such a huge amount of vac-formed production items that Elstree was overwhelmed, hence they went outside and hired Andrew?

Seems the most likely... that there simply was too much to do for Elstree to manage on their own and get done within the timeframe.

If it wasn't because the Elstree vac-former broke, I'd put my bet on that...

 

[ArtisanProps]

Wow Brian,
It seems that AA not only ripped off the studio then, but is still doing it lol

Yeah I don't think they would have outsourced anything unless they were
having problems with the Vac-forming machine.. This made the most sense
to me the first time I remember you saying this at the Prop Den..

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

It must have been more than a broken vac-former.

By 12th Jan 1976 there seems to have been a decision to use Nick Pemberton for production/fabrication of many of the helmets, with Mollo meeting Pemberton (and same day Pemberton meeting Ainsworth) on 23rd Jan. The last of the helmets (IIRC the TIE's) were delivered on the 8th June.

Thats almost FIVE months. I'm sorry but I just dont think this was about a broken vac-former. I agree with NoHumorMan, IMO there was just too much to do at Elstree and a belief that it wouldnt be done on time unless they outsourced it.

Hence they paid more to get it done quicker.

Cheers

Jez

 

[Brian Muir]

Seems the most likely... that there simply was too much to do for Elstree to manage on their own and get done within the timeframe.

If it wasn't because the Elstree vac-former broke, I'd put my bet on that...

The timeline would appear to be as follows:

1. I sculpted the armour starting early January 76.
2. Pieces of the armour were being moulded, cast in plaster, back to me to sharpen the plaster, remoulded, cast in fibreglass for moulds to be fixed to a board and pulled on. I finished work on the armour early Feb.
3. Several suits were vac formed at Elstree.
4. Liz Moore sculpted the clay helmet and left it at Elstree Studios mid Feb approx.
5. Due to Pemberton's involvement with John Mollo on other characters he was visiting the studios and was told there was a problem with the vac forming machine and he said he could get the vac forming done but did not mention Ainsworth by name.
7. When the first helmet was vac formed by Ainsworth and passed by John Mollo it was then that Pemberton stated it had been done by Ainsworth and as the pressure was on to get the suits vac formed the moulds were sent off to Ainsworth.
8.Even without the problems with the vac forming machine, as previously stated, there was so much else to be vac formed that outsourcing would have happened at some point in the production.
8. Although he was paid well for his work it is a drop in the ocean to the amount that is lost when holding the cameras up.
9.Ainsworth obviously knew a lot about vac forming and the production were pleased with the helmets and suits to the point where John Mollo gave him the other vac formed helmets to do i.e. Tie Fighter etc.
10. I give Ainsworth credit for the work he did but his problem is that he wants to take credit for everyone else's work as well.

Brian

 

[Lord Abaddon]

Thanks Brian, excellent time-line! That gives a much better perspective on what happened and when.

As for AA with all that's come out it really sounds like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

 

[Brian Muir]

It must have been more than a broken vac-former.

By 12th Jan 1976 there seems to have been a decision to use Nick Pemberton for production/fabrication of many of the helmets, with Mollo meeting Ainsworth on 23rd Jan. The last of the helmets (IIRC the TIE's) were delivered on the 8th June.

Thats almost FIVE months. I'm sorry but I just dont think this was about a broken vac-former. I agree with NoHumorMan, IMO there was just too much to do at Elstree and a belief that it wouldnt be done on time unless they outsourced it.

Hence they paid more to get it done quicker.

Cheers

Jez

Jez,

I don't know where you are getting these dates from. I have copies of all of Ainsworths statements that were frequently changed over the 18 month period of the preparation for the court case. He was then changing them again during the court case to suit the evidence that was being brought into court by the defense witnesses.

In the first statement he gave he says that Pemberton introduced him to John Mollo on 19th Feb 76. He started the work on 26th Feb 76 . He told many lies in this statement -eg that Pemberton asked him to design a plastic helmet for a school play but he didn't have to lie about the dates at this point until other factors were put in front of him.

Brian

 

[Too Much Garlic]

With all this lying, strange he wasn't charged with contempt of court :confused - or is that an American court concept?

Thanks Brian for putting things into a time perspective! :thumbsup

 

[Brian Muir]

It must have been more than a broken vac-former.

By 12th Jan 1976 there seems to have been a decision to use Nick Pemberton for production/fabrication of many of the helmets, with Mollo meeting Ainsworth on 23rd Jan. The last of the helmets (IIRC the TIE's) were delivered on the 8th June.

Thats almost FIVE months. I'm sorry but I just dont think this was about a broken vac-former. I agree with NoHumorMan, IMO there was just too much to do at Elstree and a belief that it wouldnt be done on time unless they outsourced it.

Hence they paid more to get it done quicker.

Cheers

Jez

Thanks Brian, excellent time-line! That gives a much better perspective on what happened and when.

As for AA with all that's come out it really sounds like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

That seems a good diagnosis - the only element missing is pathalogical liar.

Looking at the causes it appears his parents were to blame (allegedly :confused)

Brian

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

It must have been more than a broken vac-former.

By 12th Jan 1976 there seems to have been a decision to use Nick Pemberton for production/fabrication of many of the helmets, with Mollo meeting Ainsworth on 23rd Jan. The last of the helmets (IIRC the TIE's) were delivered on the 8th June.

Thats almost FIVE months. I'm sorry but I just dont think this was about a broken vac-former. I agree with NoHumorMan, IMO there was just too much to do at Elstree and a belief that it wouldnt be done on time unless they outsourced it.

Hence they paid more to get it done quicker.

Cheers

Jez

Jez, I'm sorry on this, but I will take the recollection of a fellow who was there over supposition any day of the week.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

::munch munch::
What? I'm just eating my popcorn. Gotta write a book, Brian.

 

[nailuj]

This really is one big 'Brian love in' and 'AA bashing session'. Very sycophantic reading.

Still think he won and Lucas lost. I say good luck to him.