AA case begins

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the info over the time line.

Youre right about not trusting any of my dates from Ainsworth, since as you said his witness statements kept changing. I actually meant "Mollo met Pemberton" to discuss the helmets on 23rd Jan (and back to back Pemberton was discussing with Ainsworth since AA was effectively his fabricator).

However the key date I was referring to was that by 12th Jan there was a decision to outsource at the very least some of the helmet production/fabrication(at that time to Pemberton), and I'm going on the dates as per John Mollo's notes.

I think your dates re Liz sculpting the helmet are a little out. IMO it would have been left at Elstree by 1st Feb.

Cheers

Jez

Pemberton did meet John Mollo some time in January but every statement is conflicting with the actual date.

There is no doubt that Pemberton was involved with the Tusken Raider and it is my belief that he (or his employees ) produced the blue helmet that is seen in the photo with the clay sculpt.

I assume that it was the blue helmet that was brought into the Studios by the 1st Feb. It was completed before the clay sculpt as in the photo is shows that there were small alterations being made on the clay sculpt as there were fresh clay shavings on the board underneath the helmet.

Liz Moore did not leave the film until the end of January and she sculpted the clay head in Holland and had to bring it back to the studios. I saw the clay helmet anytime in the second week of February.

IMO they found the blue helmet to be unacceptable and as I was snowed under with work they panicked and contacted Liz who they knew would do a good job.

Brian
 
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This is interesting stuff Brian thanks for the info.

I think it might have been requested earlier in the thread but is there any chance the moderators can split this thread into two.

One thread for AA case begins and one for the new stormtrooper pics and trooper discussion. Surely this trooper stuff is worthy of its own thread and archiving.

Cheers Chris
 
Pemberton did meet John Mollo some time in January but every statement is conflicting with the actual date.

There is no doubt that Pemberton was involved with the Tusken Raider and it is my belief that he (or his employees ) produced the blue helmet that is seen in the photo with the clay sculpt.

I assume that it was the blue helmet that was brought into the Studios by the 1st Feb. It was completed before the clay sculpt as in the photo is shows that there were small alterations being made on the clay sculpt as there were fresh clay shavings on the board underneath the helmet.

Liz Moore did not leave the film until the end of January and she sculpted the clay head in Holland and had to bring it back to the studios. I saw the clay helmet anytime in the second week of February.

IMO they found the blue helmet to be unacceptable and as I was snowed under with work they panicked and contacted Liz who they knew would do a good job.

Brian

Hi Brian

That sounds like a believable series of events

The blue Stormtrooper sculpt did look extremely crappy and had what appeared top be part of a Morris Minor stuck to the face-plate which was to me was a relevant point in pointing to Pemberton

Cheers

Jez
 
Hi Brian

That sounds like a believable series of events

The blue Stormtrooper sculpt did look extremely crappy and had what appeared top be part of a Morris Minor stuck to the face-plate which was to me was a relevant point in pointing to Pemberton

Cheers

Jez

Hi Jez,

No -one in the Studios did this so it seems likely that Pemberton did it as he lays claim to have made a helmet .His explanation of how he did it by sticking on a Morris Minor ashtray (AA states it was a Morris Minor heating duct) and the fact that other elements were applied indicates that he was responsible.

Photo of blue helmet just as a reminder - or for those who haven't seen it

image0.jpg



mcqdraw3.jpg


Brian
 
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This is interesting stuff Brian thanks for the info.

I think it might have been requested earlier in the thread but is there any chance the moderators can split this thread into two.

One thread for AA case begins and one for the new stormtrooper pics and trooper discussion. Surely this trooper stuff is worthy of its own thread and archiving.

Cheers Chris
Word.
 
I think it was quite a cool idea adding the ash-tray. At that time Vader was a chain smoker (hence the idea for his wheeze) and this feature allowed him to stub his fags out in a passing troopers face.

Cheers

Jez
 
I wonder why the mods continue to be inactive on our request to split this important thread.

Holiday Mod-Off week?

Try pushing the report post button, add into it that the topic should be split and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe they are NOT splitting it because some of the info about the helmets DOES pertain to the way people view the case.
 
Holiday Mod-Off week?

Try pushing the report post button, add into it that the topic should be split and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe they are NOT splitting it because some of the info about the helmets DOES pertain to the way people view the case.

I agree.. Leave the thread like it is.. Besides there is a lot of back and forth
between the case and the role AA had in making the helmets.......I think
it would be a pain in the A$$ to split anyway..........

Thanks for all the info Brian.. If people don't seem like they don't want to
take your word, it's probably because so many other people who have worked
on the movie can't seem to remember facts correctly when asked, but after
reading all of your posts I'm confident that your Memory is pretty damn good :)
in fact your memory sounds fantastic.. I usually can't remember what I did
yesterday, forget about what I did 20 or more years ago lol :D
 
Looks like "The Empire Strikes Back" all over again, and you KNOW how that chapter ended.
 
Ainsworth is a dishonest human being, if he can be classified as human. I hope LFL rips him a big one.
 
Yeah, it's telling that the UK courts have repeatedly cast doubts on the bulk of AA's claims, and that they simply have been denying damages to LFL due to them not feeling the work classifies as something under the protection of UK law.

I'd love to take the judge back in time to 1976 and see if he has the gumption to tell Liz Moore, her smock smeared and her thumbs buried in clay, that she isn't "sculpting".
 
I'd love to take the judge back in time to 1976 and see if he has the gumption to tell Liz Moore, her smock smeared and her thumbs buried in clay, that she isn't "sculpting".

Thats part of the problem since the Judge (incorrectly in my personal opinion) deemed that it was Nick Pemberton not Liz Moore who sculpted the Stormtrooper helmet. It seems he was swayed by the colour of the clay as opposed to the body and styling of previous work :rolleyes

Cheers

Jez
 
Yeah, it's telling that the UK courts have repeatedly cast doubts on the bulk of AA's claims, and that they simply have been denying damages to LFL due to them not feeling the work classifies as something under the protection of UK law.

It's one of those cases where they won on the facts but lost on the law. AA's version of events was dismissed, which scuppered any claim he had to the copyright. Even if he had won on the facts, the rights would probably have been assigned to LFL anyway.

The point of law the case was decided upon was a fine one. It wouldn't surprise me if the Court of Appeal overturned the decision, and as such AA's reliance on the High Court's decision is risky. The appeal should clarify matters somewhat, but the appeal can be appealed. A case about a few pieces of vacuum formed plastic has unwittingly become a test case, which may well go to the highest court in the land.

Any damages the court awards will fall far short of the £10 million awarded by the US courts. Under English law they only have the power to compensate for the actual damage suffered. The most he can be ordered to pay is the amount of profit he obtained from the sales of the infringing articles.

If the US judgment is enforced it will only be for the portion of sales in the US, and will again only reflect the value of actual sales there.

I'd love to take the judge back in time to 1976 and see if he has the gumption to tell Liz Moore, her smock smeared and her thumbs buried in clay, that she isn't "sculpting".

It is one of the peculiarities of copyright law that each work which is derivative of another, even if it is based wholly on it obtains its own copyright. This is separate from that of the previous work, and separately actionable. Of course there may well be a chain of ownership where the owner of the first work can claim ownership of the derivative works that follow. It is also possible for a non copyrightable work to derive from a copyrightable one, which is on the current judgment what happened here.

The clay sculpture, probably (but not necessarily) was copyrightable and there are authorities which if right would possibly make the moulds used to pull the helmets copyrightable too. The case as argued was (as far as I can tell) based on the copyright status of the helmets themselves, and all reference to prior works was to establish the chain of ownership of any rights in the helmets, which would vest with LFL.

On their own merits the helmets were deemed to not be protected due to their nature as props; themselves being a component part of a greater artistic work, not a work of art in their own right. Whether this is right is now for the appeal courts to decide.

Even if the decision was correct it doesn't follow that the contributions of the artists who made the actual forms from which the moulds were derived were any less important. Without them AA would not have been able to fabricate them and the film would have been the poorer for it. Even AA deserves some credit in this respect.

What he doesn't deserve is the credit he claimed, and thankfully the court agreed. It is unfortunate that the credit was likely given to the wrong person, but for the purposes of the case it is largely irrelevant. All that is important is it wasn't AA. To those of us who do care enough about who made what to investigate the matter, the truth is available from other sources (here being not the least of them.)
 
If what you say is true, then the vacuform bucks, if created by Ainsworth for purposes of vacuforming the helmet componenets, might also be considered a work of art and be considered Ainsworth's work. He may still be in the clear at the end of the day.

Bottom line is, LFL can appeal this over and over and do far more damage to Ainsworth in legal fees. They can ultimately bankrupt the guy just by pursuing this forever and ever. He should have been more careful about poking the tiger with the stick so to speak.
 
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