AA case begins

[Dpp1978]

If what you say is true, then the vacuform bucks, if created by Ainsworth for purposes of vacuforming the helmet componenets, might also be considered a work of art and be considered Ainsworth's work. He may still be in the clear at the end of the day.

Bottom line is, LFL can appeal this over and over and do far more damage to Ainsworth in legal fees. They can ultimately bankrupt the guy just by pursuing this forever and ever. He should have been more careful about poking the tiger with the stick so to speak.

From what I've gathered AA was supplied with the forms to make the helmets and the armour. Any copyright in them vests with LFL. Even if he created them and copyright attaches to them, the copyright would be assigned to LFL by operation of law.

They can appeal it again, but only on a point of law. The only real issue here is the interpretation of "artistic craftsmanship" which is what this appeal is based on. If LFL win it'll likely be the end of it due to the cost of AA starting an appeal.

If LFL lose they'll likely take it to the UK Supreme Court. If they lose there that is the end of the matter at least in the UK.

On the costs issue, in England the general rule is the loser pays the winner's costs. It isn't quite that simple, but it is a good starting point. We also don't know how the litigation was funded. It is entirely possible the costs are not coming out of AA's own pocket. It is possible he has insurance or some other arrangement which will cover his litigation expenses.

All of this is speculation, and I have no idea which way the decision will go. It'll be an interesting judgment to read, if you like that sort of thing.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

I didnt say he was innocent, i'm not backing him or fighting in his corner. As a customer i felt completey ripped off at the time and phoned him up and told him so. I also understand he has put himself in this position but i think to wish him to be 'smoked like a kipper' is a bit harsh. A firm C and D and all molds handed over should suffice, not a total wipe out of a mans life.
There are many people in this community that actually applaud his 'gumption' even if they dont agree with his method or like his products and i'm guessing there are a fair few people actually pleased with the stuff they got from him.
I'm sure the sly old dog has something up his sleeve though.
we shall have to wait and see if his kipper does indeed get smoked

Weak thinking like this is why people like him get away with crap for so long.

 

[Bobtherocker]

Weak thinking like this is why people like him get away with crap for so long.

By posting a response to something I wrote nearly a year ago me thinks you're not all too strong a thinker yourself me old fruit.
To be honest, I've moved on.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

By posting a response to something I wrote nearly a year ago me thinks you're not all too strong a thinker yourself me old fruit.
To be honest, I've moved on.

So you've changed your mind??? I guess people really can see the light.

 

[Dpp1978]

Lucasfilm's appeal has been dismissed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-defeats-George-Lucas-over-stormtroopers.html

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Interesting how the news article misquotes him as being the "designer". Or maybe that means something else in UK? He didn't create the concept or the sculpt... so what in fact did he "design" other than fabricating suits on already designed and crafted sculpts and molds?

But, does this then ultimately mean that anyone not living in the US or selling to the US can in fact just make any OT Star Wars pieces for sale without risk of getting slammed by the courts? That's an odd ruling.

 

[Dpp1978]

Interesting how the news article misquotes him as being the "designer". Or maybe that means something else in UK? He didn't create the concept or the sculpt... so what in fact did he "design" other than fabricating suits on already designed and crafted sculpts and molds?

But, does this then ultimately mean that anyone not living in the US or selling to the US can in fact just make any OT Star Wars pieces for sale without risk of getting slammed by the courts? That's an odd ruling.

To be fair it only described him as a designer of props, it didn't say he designed the originals in question; merely that he helped to manufacture them. I can see how it can be misleading though.

The scope of the ruling is unclear, and I haven't read the full judgment yet so any assumptions are based on second hand information. It certainly appears to open the door to unlicenced costume replicas, but whether it also applies to other items such as miniatures and other props, who knows? It could, given a wide interpretation, be taken further and allow the production of derivative products based on the likeness of these props again without licence. Whether this is the case again remains unclear.

It only applies to those based in the UK, although there appears to be little to stop them selling further afield. The Court refused to allow a foreign court jurisdiction over UK citizens selling across borders using the internet unless they have a legal presence in that jurisdiction.

From what I can make out from the incomplete information in front of me, it seems to be a win for AA.

 

[Apollo]

Looks like back to the drawing boards for Lfl Lawyers.

The Empire will be back though

 

[Paracord Junky]

Remember the daycare that had Disney characters on the walls painted by an amateur? Disney found out and FORCED them to paint over the walls, then THREATENED to sue them stating that their characters helped the daycare bring in business (children), and claimed damages for money lost (few thousand dollars). REMEBER IT COULD BE WORSE, and it will be if Ainsworth wins

i know it's been about a thousand pages since this was posted, but i want to read up on this and google has failed me(or maybe i fail at google). any chance someone cold shoot me some info/links? it's just that MY old daycare had amateur painter put Disney characters on the walls(in fact i remember him painting them, sort of). i don't know if they're still there, as i haven't been in there since i turned 13, but my old pediatrician's office use to have Disney characters on the waiting room walls, where now there is a map of the world.

off topic
also, i wish LFL were as kind toward the Indygear community as they are to the 501st. you guys have totally free reign by comparison.

 

[jdebord]

Court of Appeal in England Rules in Favor of Andrew Ainsworth in Lucasfilm’s Star Wars “Stormtrooper Helmet” Copyright Legal Battle

Includes ruling in PDF...

Jason DeBord

 

[Dpp1978]

I read the judgment and it is in my opinion both thorough and well reasoned.

It is possible it will be appealed further, but I can't see any glaring flaws, and some of the arguments from Lucasfilm's counsel seemed to me to be a little strained.

What the judgment basically says is:

There can be no copyright in the helmet or other items as they were not a work of sculpture. The Court approved of the test set out in the High Court by Justice Mann. The key factor seems to be the object must be made with the intention that it will be valued for its own artistic character. The original trial held that the props were made to merely look good on film, and thus were made for utilitarian purposes not artistic ones, even if there was artistry involved in their construction.

English appellate courts will only overturn a matter of judicial discretion if the relevant test has been misapplied, or if the decision was unreasonably reached. The Court of Appeal found Justice Mann's decision was reasonable and it was allowed to stand.

It also ruled that English courts have no power to enforce foreign judgments on foreign laws save where there was an international agreement to do so; where the subject had submitted to that foreign jurisdiction; or where he had a legal presence in that jurisdiction. None of these were the case here.

The Court refused to accept jurisdiction to directly enforce US copyright law domestically. This basically leaves Lucasfilm with no recourse in this matter.

It was confirmed that any rights which AA claimed which did exist at law were assigned to Lucasfilm to exploit as it sees fit.

Barring the decision being overturned by The UK Supreme Court that is how things stand, and the fallout will likely be assessed by commentators in the coming days and months.

You may not agree with decision, but it is to my eyes sound. The law itself and its perceived shortcomings are open to debate, but any change in them is a matter for the legislature, not the judiciary. It will likely take an Act of Parliament to change matters, and any retrospective effect it may have is far from certain.

It appears for the forseeable future Stormtrooper armour in the UK is in the public domain.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Not just stormtrooper armor... this is going to be wide-spread to ALL movie props... I don't think Hollywood or any other movie production house would appreciate that one bit.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I'm just wondering... didn't they copyright the stormtrooper and any other likeness through the merchandising, such as figures, kits and full size statues? How the heck won't that copyright protect the likeness from infringement? That's just so odd, imo.

 

[Jedifyfe]

So would any one of us actually buy a helmet from this *****, even after this judgement? I would rather have a Ben Cooper halloween costume mask than support this jackhole.

Brad

 

[Too Much Garlic]

You are US... so... no.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

So would any one of us actually buy a helmet from this *****, even after this judgement? I would rather have a Ben Cooper halloween costume mask than support this jackhole.

Brad

Even doing an end around to get the helmet, I would sooner scrape my face with a cheese grater than give this ****** my money.

 

[BDK]

I'm just wondering... didn't they copyright the stormtrooper and any other likeness through the merchandising, such as figures, kits and full size statues? How the heck won't that copyright protect the likeness from infringement? That's just so odd, imo.

Maybe due to timing?? AA would have had original molds before the Kenner figure so would that factor in?

 

[Jedifyfe]

You are US... so... no.

I am sure I could get one if I REALLY wanted one...

Even doing an end around to get the helmet, I would sooner scrape my face with a cheese grater than give this ****** my money.

This is exactly my point. We here in the U.S. COULD get one if we wanted, but who is going to support this jerk?

Brad

 

[Dpp1978]

I'm just wondering... didn't they copyright the stormtrooper and any other likeness through the merchandising, such as figures, kits and full size statues? How the heck won't that copyright protect the likeness from infringement? That's just so odd, imo.

It doesn't work like that. You don't copyright something, it is something which happens automatically by operation of law when an artistic work is created.

If you make something which meets the criteria, as soon as you finish it the copyright vests in you, and you have the exclusive right to exploit it. If you work for someone when you create it the copyright transfers to that person.

What happens next is where it gets tricky. If a person makes a subsequent work based on your original which also meets the criteria, and has some element of their own creativity, a new separate copyright attaches to the maker of that new item, and vests in him. You as holder of the copyright to that from which this new piece is derived can assert your prior right and sue for copyright infringement; which is what Lucasfilm has done.

The problem is the props in question fall outside the copyright criteria which means anyone is free to copy them.

It might be possible to rely on the copyright in the pre production material such as Ralph McQuarries paintings, but separate provisions deal with this issue.

The production paintings are copyrighted material, but due to their nature (being a precursor to define the form something else) they are considered "design documents." If the thing they are designing is not a work of art, (such as the helmet) you can reproduce that item without breaching the copyright in the design document.

Furthermore when an artistic work is exploited industrially there is a limitation to the term of the copyright (at least in respect to derivitive works) far shorter than there would otherwise be. In 1976 the term was 15 years, now it is 25. This term has passed and derivitive works based on these design documents are allowed without breaching copyright.

You can't rely on the copyright to the look of the characters based on their appearance in the films as it comes after the non copyright item and the chain is already broken.

Perversely if you were to exactly copy any one of the myriad pieces of Stormtrooper merchandise you would be in breach of that pieces copyright and can be sued. You are free however to make original pieces based on the helmet or the original designs.

 

[voice in the crowd]

So would any one of us actually buy a helmet from this *****, even after this judgement? I would rather have a Ben Cooper halloween costume mask than support this jackhole.

Brad

Brad,

The sad truth is if you mean RPF members when you say 'us' then yes there are a lot of members who still buy from AA / SDS. The odd show off thread and discussion thread still comes up from people who still buy from SDS even with the bigger picture of the events of the last 5 years unfurling.

LFL should pursue him for false advertising now