AA case begins

[exoray]

I was told AA defaulted in the States because he couldn't afford a lawyer.

Probably partially true as he was pleading/begging for legal help in media interviews as soon as LFL sued in the UK... But owning a successful paddle company and making huge profits on the helmets and armor he wasn't exactly a poor man...

 

[defstartrooper]

In fact the whole AA/SDS story is simply a cliché, con man 101 story... It was played out from start to finish right out of a con man how to manual...

Conned who ? his customers ? very few if any believed his stuff came from untouched original moulds or were at least aware of the concerns of others regarding his products.
His marketing lied so what ? that makes MR conmen then yeah ?

The studio ? please don't try and tell me you're championing the rights of LFL :lol

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Conned who ? his customers ? very few if any believed his stuff came from untouched original moulds or were at least aware of the concerns of others regarding his products.
His marketing lied so what ? that makes MR conmen then yeah ?

The studio ? please don't try and tell me you're championing the rights of LFL :lol

In this case, I know I am. Better the devil you know.

As to the MR helmets, I agree with you, they are just as bad as AA in regards to their trooper buckets. They sold a bill of goods that Joe Average would be more than happy with and will probably not look twice at.

As far as the amounts of people who believed his helmets came from original molds, you will find reams of photographic comparisons where his supporters are saying that very thing. Grant you, the photos did not help his cause to me, or others, but they saw things I, and others did not.

 

[exoray]

Conned who ? his customers ? very few if any believed his stuff came from untouched original moulds or were at least aware of the concerns of others regarding his products.
His marketing lied so what ? that makes MR conmen then yeah ?

The studio ? please don't try and tell me you're championing the rights of LFL :lol

First of all his audience was much bigger then the RPF, so to say very few if any believed his story is a little exaggerated as you have no idea how many people purchased his helmets without ever reading a thread on the RPF or a few of the other forums but rather followed the story laid out on his website or in print... Also the story revolves around much more then the supposed original molds, like I said from "start to finish" the story fits the con mans mold...

As for other companies like MR I have never once defended their advertising in fact I have criticized licensed products many times, maybe you have missed all those threads over the years because you were not a member here?

 

[JoeR]

This place is on the radar, and the true gatekeepers out there know exactly who they want to avoid, no matter how much information that person claims to have.

Wise words:thumbsup

 

[AnsonJames]

Conned who ? his customers ? very few if any believed his stuff came from untouched original moulds or were at least aware of the concerns of others regarding his products.
His marketing lied so what ? that makes MR conmen then yeah ?

The studio ? please don't try and tell me you're championing the rights of LFL :lol

What are you talking about?

A huge amount of people swore blind that AA's stuff was from the original moulds and posted all sorts of 'proof' to back up their beliefs.

I think you'll find AA is responsible for all the lies including taking the credit for the sculpting of the trooper helmet from a dead person - really nice, eh?
If you think these are not the actions of a con man you should really take off your blinkers.

He's a liar and a cheat - in this instance whats wrong with supporting the studio? They are trying to stop someone from selling items at a premium price using deeply fraudulent information and their trademark.

The MR lid is another matter altogether, it's a victim of sharpening the details - they never claimed it came from original moulds, just that it was scanned from an original helmet.
Did they ever say it was an exact replica?

 

[Obi Sean Kenobi]

He's a liar and a cheat and this instance whats wrong with supporting the studio? They are trying to stop someone from selling items at a premium price using deeply fraudulent information.

The MR lid is another matter altogether, it's a victim of sharpening the details - they never claimed it came from original moulds, just that it was scanned from an original helmet.
Did they ever say it was an exact replica?

Rubies has a product on the shelves now that states, in no uncertain terms, "from the original molds" - the Darth Vader helmet.

The Rubies Supreme Vader suit has been marketed as having been cut from ILM patterns and using ILM molds....

Here is the MR language used in marketing the Trooper bucket:

Digitally scanned from an original Stormtrooper helmet actually used in the filming of Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope
• Accurate reproduction of the “Hero” version including asymmetric geometry, bubble lenses and paint scheme

OSK

 

[Art Andrews]

One of the best posts I have read in a long long time.:thumbsup

Like all of the big "touchy" subjects here, there are several different dynamics going on, but the one that always sticks out to me is the presence of people for whom being a [whatever] expert is waaaay too important; people who get a large part of their identity and self-worth from a desire to be "King of [whatever]". The whole thing is overly personal to them, and so they take any assault on their tiny little hill as being some sort of personal attack. They're usually petty, insulting, and defensive. It's about as strictly the definition of "pathetic" as one could ask for. What's ironic is that these attitudes are precisely what keeps these same people from getting the access they so desperately desire. This place is on the radar, and the true gatekeepers out there know exactly who they want to avoid, no matter how much information that person claims to have.

For the rest of us, however, we don't get all frothy-mouthed one way or another, because our goal is simply to get the best stuff. We don't care where it comes from, we just look, listen, and make judgments. I am sure as hell no stormtrooper expert, but I saw a bunch of inaccuracies in AA's helmet photos, and I'd done my research, so I didn't buy one. That his claims have turned out to be patently, nearly sociopathically, false is no surprise to me. For jeopardizing the fine, fine line we all walk with this stuff - a delicate truce at best - I hope they bury him and we all distance ourselves from the stink.


_Mike

 

[AnsonJames]

You'll find accurate and exact don't mean the same thing -just an example;

http://www.dunnamphoto.com/precision_vs__accuracy.htm

Note that Rubies/MR claim their items come from original moulds but don't claim them to be 'exact' replicas - that would open them up to claims I would imagine.
I'm not defending their wording - it's legal semantics.

AA's bumpf stated his produce was 'exact' and from the 'original moulds' plus he didn't have a license.

 

[Lord Abaddon]

You'll find accurate and exact don't mean the same thing -just an example;

http://www.dunnamphoto.com/precision_vs__accuracy.htm

Note that Rubies/MR claim their items come from original moulds but don't claim them to be 'exact' replicas - that would open them up to claims I would imagine.

AA's bumpf stated his produce was 'exact' and from the 'original moulds' plus he didn't have a license.

Oh that is playing semantics something fierce.

ac·cu·rate
Pronunciation:
\ˈa-kyə-rət, ˈa-k(ə-)rət\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin accuratus, from past participle of accurare to take care of, from ad- + cura care
Date:
1596
1 : free from error especially as the result of care <an accurate diagnosis>
2 : conforming exactly to truth or to a standard : exact <providing accurate color>
3 : able to give an accurate result <an accurate gauge>

exact
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin exactus
Date:
1533
1 : exhibiting or marked by strict, particular, and complete accordance with fact or a standard
2 : marked by thorough consideration or minute measurement of small factual details

And having a license should not give leave to lie anymore than it did AA. But that was my argument all along, AA was doing nothing more or less than what others do, licensed or not, to sell his product. It wasn't the whole truth, but there was truth in it.

 

[Bobtherocker]

AA is the classic con-man and pathological liar and lives entirely on cloud cuckoo land.
He believes his own lies so much that it wouldnt surprise me if he passed a lie detector test.
He did what most con-men do when caught out in a lie, he insisted that everybody else was nuts and that they didnt know what they were talking about.
As for MR and other licence holders falling shy of the marketing shpeel, its just not relevant here. They have every right to sell their wares how they see fit, its what they payed the licencing fee for. If its misdescribed or the marketing photos are misleading then on their head be it but generally we know what we're getting from the off.
AA misinformed people who through no fault of their own (i.e. may not have been trooper savvy enough to know better) were duped into buying something they thought was geniune. Hell, some of them knew it was all wrong but bought a lid because AA was involved with the film.
i'll be glad when this is all over.

 

[defstartrooper]

You'll find accurate and exact don't mean the same thing -just an example;

http://www.dunnamphoto.com/precision_vs__accuracy.htm

Note that Rubies/MR claim their items come from original moulds but don't claim them to be 'exact' replicas - that would open them up to claims I would imagine.
I'm not defending their wording - it's legal semantics.

AA's bumpf stated his produce was 'exact' and from the 'original moulds' plus he didn't have a license.

MR's sales pitch used the terms authentic and accurate, debating that those terms don't mean the same as exact is semantics and a poor excuse.
As far as the MR being a victim of sharpening the details that's hogwash and you know it, the whole thing is way off accurate not just the details.
Going back to my previous post i said very few people believed the sales talk of untouched original moulds or were aware of the concerns of others i really doubt there are thousands of people out there that spent £500 on a helmet and have never read a thread on here or any other forum regarding SDS.
If bull$itting about your product makes you a conman just about every manufacturer of everything in the world is a con merchant.

 

[defstartrooper]

As for MR and other licence holders falling shy of the marketing shpeel, its just not relevant here. They have every right to sell their wares how they see fit, its what they payed the licencing fee for. If its misdescribed or the marketing photos are misleading then on their head be it but generally we know what we're getting from the off.

So because they have a license it's ok for them to lie and mislead people ?
So AA is a bad guy for producing unlicenced goods, if he had paid LFL for a license he would be ok lying about his helmets ? :lol
Again in general most people knew what they were getting from the off

 

[bagpus3]

Has anyone got a spare picture of a dead horse being beaten?

it would be nice if it also came along with an update on the verdict or a time frame for the conclusion!

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

So because they have a license it's ok for them to lie and mislead people ?
So AA is a bad guy for producing unlicenced goods, if he had paid LFL for a license he would be ok lying about his helmets ? :lol
Again in general most people knew what they were getting from the off

I'd like you to answer one question, if you can then. If most people knew they were not getting a screen accurate helmet, why were so many out defending the helmet as indeed being screen accurate? If you look back, you will find far more people had jumped on the screen accuracy tack than did not.

 

[Art Andrews]

Has anyone got a spare picture of a dead horse being beaten?

This one has always been my favorite simply due to the ferocity!

 

[GINO]

You should know by now this horse can only be killed with silver bullets.

PS, that kind of looks like a camel in that gif.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

This one has always been my favorite simply due to the ferocity!

I have a pain in my stomach, and that laughter this picture caused only made it worse. Thanks Brak's, ya jerk!

 

[SithLord]

Great gif....we should start a collection here :lol

I'll point out that the jurisdiction was argued first and the CA judge was biased...he didn't adhere to the criteria for jurisdiction as he should have. So at that point the AA lawyers knew they could not win in CA. So, they decided to default and let the case go to the UK where they might have a better chance. Defaulting let LFL win in the US but it had to go to the UK to be enforced through the UK courts. It just seemed to me that many here thought things were over...and that was two years ago.

Well, I liked the SDS helmets to the extent I tried to show what I thought they had in common with originals (liked in the sense I sold them a long time ago). A vain attempt I suppose. :confused I still think they are nice looking helmets, certainly lacking in some respects but if AA tried to make a Vader helmet, trust me, I'd be as anti-AA as the best of them if it didn't look right to me. It actually doesn't matter to me what helmet we are talking about, whether it's an MR or fanmade or Rubies, I'd do the same to show what's accurate or what's not, I guess to some people's dismay. :sick Maybe if AA claimed he sculpted the original Vader helmet, I'd have looked into it more thoroughly and tested his claims. My bad.

 

[firebladejedi]

Hey why we are arguing again amoungst ourselves about who said what to whom about this and that regarding accuracy lets remind ourselves what Andrew Ainsworth's website was advertising his product as :lol

What/who is Shepperton Design Studios and Andrew Ainsworth?
Andrew Ainsworth established Shepperton Design Studio's in 1974 and we produced a range of products and designs for the British film industry in the late seventies, early eighties. He sculpted, fabricated and produced the original helmets used for the first movie in 1976 and using the same moulds and processes is doing the same again almost 30 years later.
For more information on the history of how Andrew Ainsworth and Shepperton Design Studios created the original Stormtrooper read the on-line article here at www.Rebelscum.com
....and also the recent article in UK's "Model & Collectors Mart"

See also the on-line review of our first helmet, the ANH Stunt Stormtrooper, again the review is here at www.Rebelscum.com.
How accurate are these helmets?
These helmets are the most accurate replicas of the screen-used helmets ever produced. Each helmet is hand-made by the original prop-makers using the original 1976 movie moulds. in addition, many of the same materials have been used although where necessary, more modern plastics have been used taking advantage of the improvements in this field over the past 28 years.
These helmets are unique as they are 1st GENERATION facsimiles of the on-screen designs, and feature the same idiosyncrasies as the original helmets. For example the original screen-used Trooper "Stunt" helmets featured hand cut eye "sockets" which have been faithfully reproduced on these replicas. We have reproduced true reproductions of the screen-used helmets, not sanitised toy versions which have made them in effect "blood-brothers" to the screen-used helmets.
What condition are the original moulds in after all these years?
We are happy to report that the moulds are in excellent condition after their near 30 year sleep. They have been well-looked after!.
We have carried out some minor renovation work on the moulds to ensure that the helmets we produce today are as close to the originals as possible. We are confident that our customers will treasure these helmets for years to come.
For more information over the authenticity of the original moulds and some more background information to the development program please see here.
What are your future plans
We are now in the final development stage for the Hero Stormtrooper helmet which should be ready for pre-orders in early May with deliveries starting in June. Photographs and pricing information will be available in the announcement.
In addition we hope to be able to make an annoucement regarding Stormtrooper Armour later in May. Should we go-ahead with this then it would be with or without helmets so existing owners will be able to "upgrade".
We're also looking into a number of other helmets as well as the Chest Box, tubing and Armour for the Imperial Pilot.
What's the difference between Hero and Stunt Trooper Helmets?
Physically, the helmets have subtle differences as the Hero helmet (used predominantly for close-up work) incorporated a number of different facial characteristics to the Stunt.
The Hero helmet features "bubble" style brown lenses, a smaller "frown" and a lower brow, whereas the "Stunt" features flat green lenses, a much longer frown (with extra "teeth") and a higher brow.
For the original film the majority of helmets produced were "Stunt" helmets (over 50) with only a few "Hero's" made (approx 6). We will be announcing pre-orders for the Hero helmet in Q1 2005.
Are you going to also provide Armor?
We're in the final stages of investigation and things are looking good for a summer launch..
How should I care for my helmet?
As with all plastics its wise to keep the out of direct sunlight for prolonged periods of time.
Minor scuffs can be polished out with a mildly abrasive plastics cleaner like Novus Plastic Polish, which is available in a number of countries around the world including the US and UK.

For more general polishing we suggest using a standard domestic household multi-surface polish. In the UK there is a product called "Mr Sheen" which is excellent as it contains a very mild Solvent and also Silicones which provide an excellent finish. Its designed for Plastic, Glass and Wood and is made by Reckitt Benckiser and is available at any Supermarket. Similar products will be available in other countries (such as "Pledge" in the US) although we do not suggest you use anything with a scented fragrance (such as Lemon). As with all these products, you should always test them out on a small area first.
However one could say that to be truly screen-accurate you shouldn't actually clean your helmets at all. Since the ones used in the movie were actually quite rough in appearance having been manhandled by numerous stunt men and extras!
Shepperton Design Studios
www.sdsprops.com
76 The Green
Twickenham
Middlesex TW2 5AG
UK
Tel +44 (0)208 898 4839