JD
Master Member
Just like a female heroine is a Mary Sue, or some attempt at being PC. The conspiracy theorists are working overtime.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
Ah yes, the dynamic duo of Toxic Masculinity and Misogyny - brought to you by Oppressive Patriarchy™. So glad I'm *****.
edit, ok can't say the 'Q' word, even when reclaiming it for myself. Well then, I'll just have to say I'm LGBTQ
edit, ok can't say the 'Q' word, even when reclaiming it for myself. Well then, I'll just have to say I'm LGBTQ
That caught my eye too. Perhaps the red button was the "Try it now!" button you see on toys at the store, and only lets it function for a short time.
Context... compared to Kylo Ren. Maul was extreme, compared to Kylo. Vader was conflicted, once, Kylo was not.
I just meant what Josh saw was all wrong and those were things seen in other "dark siders".
Actually Maul spoke several
and it would be great to see him back... in action.
joshvanrad
Sr Member
Maul was nothing other than a menacing pile of make-up and poorly choreographed action sequences. There was nothing extreme about him.
Solo4114
Master Member
I heard a rumor he drank Surge!
cboath
Master Member
Yes, I know what we were told. To me, though, the first shot you see of him is holy @#$^ he did what?!?! (stopping the blaster bolt). Then it goes to things like ripping info out of peoples heads - then it goes to temper tantrums because things don't go his way? I'm open to revisting the opinion after 8 and 9 are out. Could be one of those things that comes off better in the long run. I saw, at best a super powerful loose cannon.
Maybe it has to do with the lack of known motivation. We've got no clue why he's rejected his former life and gone evil. And it seems he's not entirely sure. It would problably have more weight with the whole backstory there. Vader, maul, the emperor, and dooku to an extent - they were just put to us a pure evil. OK. It's harder to grasp the work in process bad guy when you have no idea why he's headed down that path. To kill your father like that, you'd think there's a giant massive reason for it. We've got nothing so far.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Kylo is "complicated, conflicted bad guy" by committee. There is nothing there but the manufactured hype surrounding him. To drive home the point, the character tells you what it is, in the movie. It isn't a character, it's a void of a character that makes the entire movie ring hollow. The series doesn't even need him. He could have never made it off of the ice planet/base and they could fill in the holes as to why he was the way he was, later.
joshvanrad
Sr Member
[haters quote] I don't like him because he sucks [/quote]
Counter-argument: I don't think he sucks.
Ok, well it looks like we're at an impasse again.
Counter-argument: I don't think he sucks.
Ok, well it looks like we're at an impasse again.
Zombie_61
Master Member
"Kylo, we've set up this space in the storage hold and filled it with useless rubbish for you to destroy the next time you get angry, because...well, those control panels are getting expensive. Besides, one of these days you're bound to damage one that controls the ship or something, and then we're all screwed."
Getoninja
Sr Member
"Kylo, we've set up this space in the storage hold and filled it with useless rubbish for you to destroy the next time you get angry, because...well, those control panels are getting expensive. Besides, one of these days you're bound to damage one that controls the ship or something, and then we're all screwed."
:lol :lol
kristen jones
Master Member
why do you have a problem with that? i can totally see how they were showing us that both Ben and Rey were awakening to their powers.
cboath
Master Member
Except that if Ben/Ren was just awakened, he'd like not be doing things vader or the emperor never did in the first 2 minutes of the movie...I think it's pretty established that while he may be a bad guy in process - he's been using the force for a good while now. I suppose, too, 'awakens' could mean no one using it for 20 years and BenRen and others picking it up 10ish years ago.
I'll also say i thought they said something to that effect well before the movie was out. That, aside from luke, no one had been doing jedi/sith stuff the until fairly recently and people were forgetting the force even existed, fallen off into the myth/legend category.
To me, the force 'awakens' - at least after viewing - meant two things. 1. The force just awakened in Rey (not BenRen) and 2. It was awakening in the galaxy along the lines of coming back into public view. Post viewing, i never thought of it applied to BenRen. Seems luke had taught him at a fairly young age (10-15 at least).
I'll also say i thought they said something to that effect well before the movie was out. That, aside from luke, no one had been doing jedi/sith stuff the until fairly recently and people were forgetting the force even existed, fallen off into the myth/legend category.
To me, the force 'awakens' - at least after viewing - meant two things. 1. The force just awakened in Rey (not BenRen) and 2. It was awakening in the galaxy along the lines of coming back into public view. Post viewing, i never thought of it applied to BenRen. Seems luke had taught him at a fairly young age (10-15 at least).
How exactly did Ben's powers awaken? In the first act of the film, he's using the Force to stop blaster beams, mind rape prisoners and push/pull people with the intent of causing harm. Saying that his dark side powers awoke in this film is nonsense because he's been using these powers for dark purposes the whole bloody time. If they tried to convey there was an awakening in him, they blew it. He was a jerk from beginning to end.
kristen jones
Master Member
Take it down a notch, Jeyl... nobody is getting excited. we're sharing ideas.
I was reacting to your outburst of: "That's it.. I'm out of here!" by saying that i could see what they meant with that statement...more or less that if it was their intent to have us view the story through that lens. Not that they literally scripted it so that we *must* have tons of on screen evidence that Kylo Ren had "Just Now" awakened to the Force. It's more like as cboath said the Force is awakening in the galaxy...and this in turn had stirred up things in Kylo Ren...what with him not being the only active force user around anymore.
Sometimes you just sound like you're getting so hot under the collar... it's almost like you are having your own Kylo tantrum.
I was reacting to your outburst of: "That's it.. I'm out of here!" by saying that i could see what they meant with that statement...more or less that if it was their intent to have us view the story through that lens. Not that they literally scripted it so that we *must* have tons of on screen evidence that Kylo Ren had "Just Now" awakened to the Force. It's more like as cboath said the Force is awakening in the galaxy...and this in turn had stirred up things in Kylo Ren...what with him not being the only active force user around anymore.
Sometimes you just sound like you're getting so hot under the collar... it's almost like you are having your own Kylo tantrum.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
As much as the original trilogy was about the redemption of a villain, with Vader once again coming back to the light side, this trilogy will be the rise of a villain and how Ren needs to shed the remaining light within so that he can be the "Vader" he wants to be. So to me it makes perfect sense that while he has been able the master the physical and mental control of the force, he is still struggling with his emotional control.
There were a few key scenes where this was shown quite clearly.
There were a few key scenes where this was shown quite clearly.
kristen jones
Master Member
yes...pretty much what I was getting at and what I think they meant too
it's almost like you are having your own Kylo tantrum.
I don't think that's a good comparison since my computer is still in one piece.
I just don't see how being stirred up about not being the only active force user around implies that his dark side has awakened. He didn't need to deal with Force users to show his dark side. Saying that the Dark Side awakened in Kylo Ren during this movie is like saying there is a fire long after the house has already burned down.
Normally when a character struggles with themselves emotionally it would have moments of regret or doubts of the path they've chosen. There are no moments where Kylo questions his own actions or contemplated whether his current path may be the wrong one. He wants to be the bad guy and he's actually doing a good job at it.
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