Star Wars: Battlefront

Very cleverly they've called this DLC "BATTLE of Jakku". Other news articles I have read states it's the STORY that happens 20 something years before TFA. Well this DLC being a map is not a story, nor a "battle". This battle is not in the MISSIONS/BATTLES mode of the game, and there's no story... it's a multiplayer map. So really this very misdirected DLC should have been called Jakku Map. Yeah it sounds less robust of an offering, but the fact is... well....it is.

I know the game is more multiplayer-centric, but you can see why one would be eluded to think that the first DLC called "Battle of Jakku" would lead one to believe that this was a story add-on available in the single player/co-op side of the game missions.
 
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I know the game is more multiplayer-centric, but you can see why one would be eluded to think that the first DLC called "Battle of Jakku" would lead one to believe that this was a story add-on available in the single player/co-op side of the game missions.

Yes. And you can't even go check out the downed Star Destroyer. Maybe they'll add in some co-op content. Like you, I believed that this was going to be just that; a new map to play on as well as a co-op mission.
 
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Yes. And you can't even go check out the downed Star Destroyer. Maybe they'll add in some co-op content. Like you, I believed that this was going to be just that; a new map to play on as well as a co-op mission.
But they'll justify that by saying it was engulfed in flames and would be too hot to get close to, and that in TFA movie will investigate the star destroyer, hahah

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Yes. And you can't even go check out the downed Star Destroyer. Maybe they'll add in some co-op content. Like you, I believed that this was going to be just that; a new map to play on as well as a co-op mission.

You can't check out the Star Destroyer because it would cripple performance, especially on the consoles. And I daresay that no developer on the planet could change that without compromising visual quality. I've worked extensively with things like level design (years in the past) and enormous in-game objects are murder on hardware. I'm actually impressed that they were able to get moving AT-ATs into the game- if you look really close at them you can see that they are a little less detailed than smaller objects.

I would imagine that any content they add would be multiplayer-focused. The core experience of this game is purely multiplayer and a designer would be very unlikely to want to insert elements that do not directly cater to the core experience. You don't just throw something like extra content together either. Even the smallest part has months of development, approvals and testing on a title like this.

The match-making issues people are reporting are a legitimate issue however. I haven't experience any oddities myself but we'll see.
 
They really need to adresse alot of issues with the game both with certain stuff not working and just certain things that need to change in order for it to work.

Yesterday eve had some fun with walker assault but one thing i think they should change is if you go in an AT-ST is that speeders cant kill you if they fly into you. HAd the chance to get into one few times and every time i had a air speeder or x-wing fly into me and i wasnt even weak, resulting in dead ofc...Also did they nerf the cycler rifle? cus now it seems like a worthless star card to put in when compared with pulse cannon or even homing shot.
 
I don't know about the At-St. Seems like if two logs could destroy it, a speeder would have no problem.
 
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I was afraid stuff like this would happen. You'd see a huge rush of players initially, and then a gradual decline in population, while those who stuck around would advance a bunch, and those at lower levels would get trounced when they join. To be fair, though, DICE's games have never really given a damn about things like teambalance (other than pure numbers, and even that needs to be enabled server-side usually). In other games, they've had issues with designing maps such that it actually promotes locking people into their main base and killing them shortly thereafter. The philosophy being that if you got to that point, you "deserved" to be spanked (never mind that doing this kills a server population quickly, as the article demonstrates).

You can't check out the Star Destroyer because it would cripple performance, especially on the consoles. And I daresay that no developer on the planet could change that without compromising visual quality. I've worked extensively with things like level design (years in the past) and enormous in-game objects are murder on hardware. I'm actually impressed that they were able to get moving AT-ATs into the game- if you look really close at them you can see that they are a little less detailed than smaller objects.

I would imagine that any content they add would be multiplayer-focused. The core experience of this game is purely multiplayer and a designer would be very unlikely to want to insert elements that do not directly cater to the core experience. You don't just throw something like extra content together either. Even the smallest part has months of development, approvals and testing on a title like this.

The match-making issues people are reporting are a legitimate issue however. I haven't experience any oddities myself but we'll see.

The thing is, given DICE's history with patches and hotfixes, I wouldn't hold your breath for this to be addressed within the next two months. Even glaringly obvious bugs have been allowed to continue for at least a month. My favorite examples are from Bad Company 2, when a patch came out that totally screwed the netcode to the point where people were rubberbanding like crazy and the game was unplayable. Literally. It took them a month to fix that. The other one was with Battlefield 3 where, for like 2 months maybe, the M26 DART underslung shotgun would basically be an instakill all of a sudden. Turned out that every round from the shotgun had suddenly been given the same damage properties as the weapon to which it was attached. So, if you stuck it on a heavy rifle, it was like having a heavy rifle shotgun, so to speak. They let that go for over a month, possibly 2.

And those are just the glaringly obvious BUGS I'm talking about. Balance issues take way, way longer to fix. Spawn locations, maps being one-sided, weapon balance issues, those things will take sometimes 4-6 months to fix, even when it should be blatantly obvious. Another fav from Battlefield 3 was the IRNV+USAS12+frag rounds, which basically gave you a wallhacking automatic grenade launcher. It was insane. Took 'em half a year to rebalance.


Bottom line folks, don't expect rapid fixes to balance issues. Or really any issues. DICE is not known for being a nimble, responsive company.

I don't know about the At-St. Seems like if two logs could destroy it, a speeder wod have no problem.

Yeah, but it being a game, you can't necessarily assume that they'll balance things around "realism."



Anyway, as for the "They're evil/greedy/etc." I think what we're seeing is publishers pushing back on the admittedly stuck-in-the-90s pricing model. The thing is...that's what the market will bear. I think those issues will eventually either slow down the constant graphical advancement, or you'll see games coming out that are thinner and thinner on up-front content. I don't actually know what the change will be, but it strikes me that with Battlefront, we're seeing that some kind of change is afoot in the industry.
 
I don't play online, so 90% of the content on this disc is lost to me. My kids love playing against each other which is nice, and it's certainly the most immersive Star Wars experience out there. However I desperately want some single player DLC. I don't need any kind of in-depth story or crap like that. Just a series of missions I can play that'll keep me occupied for more than an hour like the current training missions do.

It's fun, but online only games have a limited appeal and a comparatively short shelf life. A little offline/split-screen content would go a LONG way.
 
The thing is, given DICE's history with patches and hotfixes..... Balance issues take way, way longer to fix..... It was insane. Took 'em half a year to rebalance.
Bottom line folks, don't expect rapid fixes to balance issues. Or really any issues. DICE is not known for being a nimble, responsive company.

I've never been a programmer, but the sad truth is that network code on this level is notoriously difficult. It's easy to think that it should be easier today than a few years ago, since the net is more evolved, but it seems to be the opposite. That's why we see less people per game than in previous ones. As you say, balancing is an enormous task. One little change can affect weeks of work and disrupt other parts of the game. (I actually designed the "flagship" multiplayer level in Far Cry 3, my last AAA-effort before moving into producing. And if you think FPSs are hard to balance... you can't imagine what it was like on an RTS of yore!) As a producer, I've had to lead the effort to find solutions to network errors on a couple games and it's always a nightmare. Even to reproduce behaviors in the code can take major efforts.

As for being responsive... well, I wouldn't presume to know what goes on at DICE in particular, but if I had to guess based on experience, any company that suffers major issues will put in long hours using all personnel needed to fix problems. They might not communicate it outwardly though, out of simple fear of saying the "wrong" thing and making matters worse before they have a solid answer to the problem. Even so, it's a sure thing that all devs have people reading the forums and keeping tabs, even if they are silent.


It's fun, but online only games have a limited appeal and a comparatively short shelf life. A little offline/split-screen content would go a LONG way.
Actually, it can be the other way around. Online functionality is often the way developers maintain interest in a game over a long period of time IF the game is a success to begin with. Single Player is often over in a few hours, only a small percentage of buyers actually play game campaigns to the end- even if they like them. If you have a game that allows heavy modding, then you can sustain a player base with only single player, but otherwise, multiplayer is the part that keeps players coming back because you can build a community around it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NEXT Battlefront contains a "proper" single player portion but I doubt we'll see anything major this time around. It's a 95% multiplayer title so they'll probably spend the same amount of effort keeping that part of it going.
 
I've never been a programmer, but the sad truth is that network code on this level is notoriously difficult. It's easy to think that it should be easier today than a few years ago, since the net is more evolved, but it seems to be the opposite. That's why we see less people per game than in previous ones. As you say, balancing is an enormous task. One little change can affect weeks of work and disrupt other parts of the game. (I actually designed the "flagship" multiplayer level in Far Cry 3, my last AAA-effort before moving into producing. And if you think FPSs are hard to balance... you can't imagine what it was like on an RTS of yore!) As a producer, I've had to lead the effort to find solutions to network errors on a couple games and it's always a nightmare. Even to reproduce behaviors in the code can take major efforts.

As for being responsive... well, I wouldn't presume to know what goes on at DICE in particular, but if I had to guess based on experience, any company that suffers major issues will put in long hours using all personnel needed to fix problems. They might not communicate it outwardly though, out of simple fear of saying the "wrong" thing and making matters worse before they have a solid answer to the problem. Even so, it's a sure thing that all devs have people reading the forums and keeping tabs, even if they are silent.

Yeah, I mean, I get why balance stuff needs tweaking. I think what a lot of dev teams are starting to realize, though, is that they need to be a lot more communicative with the active community about the fact that they're aware of the problem and are working on a solution. Maybe say "We're thinking about XYZ as a possible solution, but we aren't sure yet, and we want to make sure we get our internal testing right." Having beta/testing servers open to the public is helpful, too, before pushing content to the live servers. I know a lot of MMOs have "testing" servers that run the latest beta version of an as-yet unreleased patch so that they can check performance on a wider scale using the actual player-base instead of just internal testers.

I think the real sin in these cases is giving the appearance of dragging your feet. When nothing is said one way or the other, people assume the company just doesn't care or is waiting for the complaints to reach some fever pitch before they'll respond. I tend to think that's bad for business. I mean, not every balance complaint needs to be addressed, but there needs to be better community relations with the public done by people who can actually give real answers and speak substantively (as opposed to "community relations" people whose job it is to just get folks to stop whining -- not the same thing).

Payday 2 has gotten a lot of flak lately for this, and just recently changed how they handle their forums. It's been an improvement, but I think it came way too late.

To its credit, I will say that from the outside, it looks like DICE has actually been more responsive to complaints about things like map balance with Battlefront than in previous games. My guess is that there must be a LOT riding on this as their first crack at the franchise, and they don't want to re-launch it with people saying "Yeah, it was ok, but I wouldn't buy a sequel."

Actually, it can be the other way around. Online functionality is often the way developers maintain interest in a game over a long period of time IF the game is a success to begin with. Single Player is often over in a few hours, only a small percentage of buyers actually play game campaigns to the end- even if they like them. If you have a game that allows heavy modding, then you can sustain a player base with only single player, but otherwise, multiplayer is the part that keeps players coming back because you can build a community around it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NEXT Battlefront contains a "proper" single player portion but I doubt we'll see anything major this time around. It's a 95% multiplayer title so they'll probably spend the same amount of effort keeping that part of it going.

Multiplayer keeps people playing for a while, but the current model of multiplayer is...in my opinion, shortsighted. EAs games seem to be all about control and centralization. They don't want modded servers, they don't even seem to want dedicated servers at all with this game, and they allow for zero by way of mods. You can't run a custom game, you can't modify the game to make it more "realistic" if you wanted or to limit XYZ vehicles or run your own maps or whathaveyou.

Now, I get that a lot of that is to drive players to buy the Season Pass or individual DLC packs, but at the same time, I tend to think that you build a lot of brand loyalty, and can also really improve a game's longevity by allowing client-side development and running custom games. Of course, that may not play into the release cycle plan where you do a new game every 12-16 months or so, and release DLC every 3-4 months....
 
EA doesn't want to have dedicated servers for any of their games, it's why so many folks got tired of Destiny too. They didn't have dedicated servers and let people get away with cheating for so long before they bothered cracking down.
 
EA doesn't want to have dedicated servers for any of their games, it's why so many folks got tired of Destiny too. They didn't have dedicated servers and let people get away with cheating for so long before they bothered cracking down.

I don't really get why, though.

I mean, I get a general desire for centralization and a homogenous, consistent experience of the game...but if that experience then becomes stifling, dull, and people lose interest, what good does it do you?

When literally the only experience available is the one the central company offers you, if you don't like that experience, you just move on. And you probably don't buy the sequel, either. With both dedicated servers and mods, players can customize their games and make them more interesting, more fun, etc. All of that can end up translating back to your brand, which enhances your goodwill and likelihood of future sales. I mean, for all the whining, you KNOW people would be all over it if Half-Life 3 were announced tomorrow. Why? Simple. Valve has proven that it can both deliver a great experience in gaming AND can provide a platform on which the players will then build. Valve is always mod-friendly, and seems to very much cater to players who want to customize their experiences of the game. EA and Activision seem far more about "Take/buy what you're given."

I get some of it, but a lot of what drives the decisions seems so short-sighted. Star Wars Battlefront will likely remain decently popular for a while, while the buzz about the films continues, but without adequate support, without a compelling gameplay experience, people will tire of it and just move on. At which point, it becomes a ghost town, and people become less willing to buy the next game (I mean, admittedly, the Star Wars brand is bulletproof, but still.).
 
I don't play online, so 90% of the content on this disc is lost to me. My kids love playing against each other which is nice, and it's certainly the most immersive Star Wars experience out there. However I desperately want some single player DLC. I don't need any kind of in-depth story or crap like that. Just a series of missions I can play that'll keep me occupied for more than an hour like the current training missions do.

It's fun, but online only games have a limited appeal and a comparatively short shelf life. A little offline/split-screen content would go a LONG way.

I know we'll probably never get this, but just imagine this game with a "call of duty" style single player campaign. No real story, just the main battles / skirmishes throughout the movies.

Just for ANH you could have

1. Boarding the Tantive IV
2. Docking Bay 94
3. Death Star Leia rescue (from sneaking out of the falcon, to cell block, and back)
4. Ben Vs. Vader
5. Tie fighter vs Falcon attack
6. Trench Run.
 
Okay... I KNOW making a game is very complex process. I cannot begin to imagine the logistics.

That being said...

When you're making a game like this, you need to find the right people who can make it happen. Yes, it's a complex process with spawning, and matchmaking algorithms (etc.) BUT.... That's where you need to get the right people. If it's possible and you're going to be delivering a high tier game with advanced features, you better get someone who can do it. People don't want to hear how hard it is. They know it is, but that's why there's the people that there are who can execute on these demands.

I get pretty tired of games that aren't finished. Before the age of internet and updating game content, games that were released to console were final. What you got was what you got. I think the gaming industry has gotten sloppy with how they release a finished game. You see patches all the time, fixing other in-game issues that should have been addressed before market release. It's amazing how much post-release stuff goes into a game.

I know there's a lot more that goes into the functionality of these games, but isn't that what a QC/QA staff stress tests and makes sure passes BEFORE a release? I'd rather a game not come out at all until it was done working out bugs. It makes you and your brand just look bad.

Battlefront is BEAUTIFUL. No question. It's just too bad the meat of it just isn't there. I can only play maps so much before doing PvP.

I stopped playing Destiny a while back forever due to the microtransactions and that garbage nickel and diming players, but they had a pretty good system set up and huge playing field as to what you can do between PvE and PvP events. I definitely give that game huge props for being a game you could spend a ton of time in. Battlefront barely scratches the surface and it's sad to see with something that was so perfectly tooled in the design process. (Not to excuse how much they changed after release though in looting and how XP was gained and strengthening your characters; They shouldn't change game mechanics that far into release. While it made some improvements, the game overall had it's growing pains). Battlefront may fix a bunch of things, but the missions suck in length and the only thing that isn't the same twice is the PvP.
 
The thing is, I agree with JOATRASH that single player -- while certainly nice to have -- tends to be blown through fairly quickly unless you're doing a dedicated single player game. A single/multi combo game tends to do neither particularly well, or only one of them well and the other gets short shrift. So, like, Half-Life 2 released with great single player, but only DM/TDM as multiplayer, and just using maps from the game. Battlefield 3 released with with a doofy, throwaway SP campaign, and robust multiplayer.

In recent memory for me, at least, the only game I can think of (well, the only FPS) with really good SP and MP was Bad Company 2.

Single player campaigns have also gotten a lot shorter over the years, down from like 20 hrs, to 12 hrs, to 6-8 hrs. But that's usually when the game otherwise has devoted a lot of resources to multiplayer.
 
I don't really get why, though.

I mean, I get a general desire for centralization and a homogenous, consistent experience of the game...but if that experience then becomes stifling, dull, and people lose interest, what good does it do you?

When literally the only experience available is the one the central company offers you, if you don't like that experience, you just move on. And you probably don't buy the sequel, either. With both dedicated servers and mods, players can customize their games and make them more interesting, more fun, etc. All of that can end up translating back to your brand, which enhances your goodwill and likelihood of future sales. I mean, for all the whining, you KNOW people would be all over it if Half-Life 3 were announced tomorrow. Why? Simple. Valve has proven that it can both deliver a great experience in gaming AND can provide a platform on which the players will then build. Valve is always mod-friendly, and seems to very much cater to players who want to customize their experiences of the game. EA and Activision seem far more about "Take/buy what you're given."

I get some of it, but a lot of what drives the decisions seems so short-sighted. Star Wars Battlefront will likely remain decently popular for a while, while the buzz about the films continues, but without adequate support, without a compelling gameplay experience, people will tire of it and just move on. At which point, it becomes a ghost town, and people become less willing to buy the next game (I mean, admittedly, the Star Wars brand is bulletproof, but still.).

It would seem with Destiny Bungie can't afford to get the servers themselves and the penny pinchers at EA figures people will keep playing no matter how bad the servers get thus you get the iron banner connection issues and cheating.
 
Be careful idiots are saying spoilers for force awakens on the chat. I read something I cannot unread. You can disable it but I think you have to disable it for every game.
 
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