rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Very true!
Rewatched Tron Legacy (ramble on)
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Very true!
About Dillinger Jr., he could have a bunch of stock from dad, so they're stuck with him. And he seems a brilliant computer guy. And when the board got rid of Flynn and his bunch, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
I liked the movie. But felt that in the first one, they seemed made of electricity or light or something, while in Legacy they looked like humans with fancy coats.
Somewhere in here, someone thought Clu wanted to come into our world. No. He just wanted access to the World Wide Web.
Already saw that in Reboot.
I liked the movie. But felt that in the first one, they seemed made of electricity or light or something, while in Legacy they looked like humans with fancy coats.
Somewhere in here, someone thought Clu wanted to come into our world. No. He just wanted access to the World Wide Web.
Already saw that in Reboot.
CB2001
Master Member
I doubt his father had any stock in Encom, especially after committing what is basically theft and fraud (he ripped off Kevin Flynn's games and claimed that they were his own). It's safe to say that Dillenger had spent some jail time and, as it is shown with the ARG, ended up creating his own company (Dillenger Systems) when he was basically blacklisted from the big tech companies because of what he did.
Well, I know a lot of people have complained about the style difference between the first film and the second, and how there is a "lack of change in the style from one to the other." But the fact of the matter is this: how do we know that different computers running different operating systems don't have different styles? For Encom's servers (circa 1982), it was what we saw in the first film. In T:L, since Flynn was building what is considered a "sandbox" Grid that was basically open sourced (in away, the term "sandbox" being more applicable in multiple ways, including gaming), he may have been using an entirely different operating system (not to mention different hardware). For all we know, the inside of an Apple iPhone may look like the minimalistic style of the space station in 2001: A Space Odyssey that Apple has adopted. We don't really know. But I don't have a problem with that change, as it makes sense that different systems and different configurations may lead to a different internal environment (if you can change your desktop's appearance, then why is it not all possible to change your computer's interior world appearance?)
No, he wanted to come out of the system into the real world, to take it over and to make it "perfect" like he did on the Grid. And its because we see Quorra in the outside world that gives us the chilling thought about what would have happened if he had succeeded. Though many may not realize that Quorra managed to get out was not only because of Flynn's disc, but that the laser created her using his matter (which was stored in the laser on two canisters which can be seen at the base of the laser). Due to that, I had proposed over at the Tron-Sector that CLU, after getting out, would have started to kidnap people, sending them into the Grid and pulling out members of his army, and for his army's vehicles (such as tanks and recognizers, if they somehow managed to work in the outside world), he'd have to digitize whole buildings in order to bring such vehicles out. From there, all I can say is that it'd be a nightmare scenario of a war breaking out between programs and the human race, with the human race slowly losing.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
That makes me want to see a Tron/Matrix crossover where Agent Smith is on the game grid and Clu makes it to the Matrix instead of the real world.
I'm a recent convert. I was a HUGE original film fan. When I saw LEGACY, I did NOT "get it". I was actually a bit disappointed. But, I gave it a few weeks and watched it again. I LOVE this movie now, and have watched it a dozen times now. The effects are fantastic, the music is perfect, and the CG is pretty impressive.
I'll admit that one of the 1rst things to hook me in was how HOT "gem" is in the movie and i couldn't get enough of her. Then the story fell into place, and the Sam grew on me too. I really enjoyed the new cycles, and grid games as well.
I'll admit that one of the 1rst things to hook me in was how HOT "gem" is in the movie and i couldn't get enough of her. Then the story fell into place, and the Sam grew on me too. I really enjoyed the new cycles, and grid games as well.
Wakeem
Sr Member
Kind of late but here are my thoughts on TRON Legacy. What began as a simple post took on a life of its own during lunch breaks and TV commercials.
I decided to have a double feature with the original TRON and Legacy. First off, I believe that TRON should be grouped with classic cyberpunk films. Shows like Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Blade Runner, The Matrix, and the Ghost in the Shell movies & TV show. It’s interesting how the only sequel in the group not made by the original director was made by one of the best directors ever. James Cameron made The Terminator before Aliens. Thus proving that he could do a classic cyberpunk film before taking on the sequel to Alien. Aliens is still the best example of how to do a proper sequel to a classic film. The animated film Renaissance Paris 2054 also has a strong cyberpunk feel and is heavily influenced by a few of the previous titles. Renaissance isn’t quite a classic but I do feel that it tries a lot more than Legacy. Anyway, if you see TRON in the same company with any of the previous films then you will be fairly disappointed with Legacy. I’ve seen a few people here and on another forum compare Legacy to Blade Runner but the only recent film worthy of that comparison is Inception, which is not only a good cyberpunk movie but one of the best movies ever.
To discuss Legacy, I’ll start by giving my feelings on the original TRON. The opening of the film is one of the best movie openings. You have the creation of TRON and a beautiful transition from electronic to real world. The film does a good job of establishing the world and its rules. We have the arcade opening which shows how we see videogames and move to the electronic world and how the games really appear. We get an understanding of why the lightcycles behave the way they do on the game grid. Because that’s how they move in the arcade game designed by Flynn. The quick turns are something people seem to have a problem with for some reason. Here is a good interview with Steven Lisberger and Henry Jenkins where they talk about the lightcycle physics and other stuff.
TRONsmedia Part One - YouTube - Steven Lisberger and Henry Jenkins Interview
It’s worth noting that once the lightcycles leave the game grid they act like normal motorcycles. In the original electronic world everything looks, sounds, and feels different. It is a new, never before seen world. Even the soundtrack was different. All of this stuff is important to understand when comparing the original TRON to Legacy. The newness and exploring topics that were far ahead of their time in 1982.
In the real world, we are presented with new types of technology. Most of the best cyberpunk movies present at least one new device. The stuff in TRON is very high tech if you happened to see the film in the 80s. From Dillenger’s desk interface, Flynn’s Space Paranoids arcade game, and the teleportation laser. Sure we have seen transporter technology before in Star Trek but it didn’t work like the laser in TRON. It is cool yet scary the way the laser takes Flynn apart piece by piece. The transport sequence was very 3D, almost like an IMAX presentation when viewed as a kid back in the 80s.
In the electronic world, the transport to the lightcycle grid and the bikes forming around the riders is still very cool. The lightcycle scene feels fast and very dangerous. How the game starts with a chicken race and the following maze trap is great stuff. The Legacy scene might be newer but the original lightcycle sequence and escape is still far more thrilling. Did anyone happen to notice in Legacy that one of Clu’s backup riders should still be riding around the lightcycle grid? On a side note, I believe that The Matrix Reloaded still has the best motorcycle scene. Back to TRON, even the disc battles in the original are better than Legacy’s battles. For that matter, nothing in Legacy is as cool as TRON’s introductory battle against four programs and his final battle against Sark. Here is a pretty good but at times harsh review comparing many of TRON’s scenes versus the ones in Legacy.
The best TRON:LEGACY REVIEW EVER - TRON Legacy Review
Moving on to Legacy, I always thought TRON was a closed story. Sure, ideas could be worked into a sequel. Questions like what was Flynn going to do next? How would the electronic world evolve? Now that the transporting laser works on humans, how will that change the world? But for the most part, everything for the characters was resolved. To me, when you do a sequel you need to be completely faithful to the original. The same tone, feel, look, characters, etc. Not pick and choose elements for your story and ignore others. TRON’s story is fairly straight forward. A software engineer wants his videogames back. In Legacy, the videogames are a side aspect of Flynn’s software experiments. These experiments are presented in vague terms and never fully explained. Plus, tons of plot threads are saved for the sequel. From Sam’s take over of Encom and his most likely conflict with Dillenger Jr., Quorra living in the real world and what that means, the fate of TRON, and the possibility of Flynn being alive although I believe that he is gone. From here I’ll breakdown my problems with Legacy.
We’ll start with a big problem, Alan and the sadly missing Lora. In the original, Lora states that “this laser is my life’s work.” Alan even sees the laser test and jokes about it disintegrating things and having it transport him to Hawaii. Alan’s character loses intelligence for the father and son story to work. Alan doesn’t look into how Flynn was using TRON or even what he was working on and Lora is cut out all together. What does Yori think when TRON is moved to Flynn’s personal system? What about the fact that Gibbs and other workers were around for laser test with the orange. I’m sure there were computer records of the laser firing the night Flynn, Lora, and Alan break into Encom. Or at the very least someone will notice something in Encom’s monthly power bill since the laser seems to take a lot of energy to power up. But all this is ignored for the sequel to work.
Past the Alan and Lora problem, there were many other things that bugged me. Starting with the flying TRON Legacy title credits. I know it’s a homage to the original title but “Legacy” should be in the titles. I thought it was hidden in the buildings or something but it’s not. It’s almost like they think the movie can stand on its own but that’s stretching things a bit. In the real world, why is the cinematography like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight? I still need to pick up the Legacy issue of American Cinematographer. Maybe the answer is there. But right now, I just assume it’s because of the popularity and profitability of the two Batman films. If I was the director or cinematographer, I would have used the final TRON shot as a guide with the red, green, and gold colors. It seems like they tried a bit with the shot on top of the Encom building. Also, I want to know who thought that the overweight coffee and doughnut rent-a-cop thing would be funny. Flynn sneaking across the room in the original with the accompanying music cue was funny. No way would that rent-a-cop climb and go out on that building crane. Plus, there is the dull and typical stuffed suit board meeting that has nothing to do, for the most part, with the main story and only sets up the sequel conflict between Sam and Dillenger Jr.
Moving on to Flynn’s Arcade, once Sam finds Flynn’s secret room, which for twenty years Alan or Lora couldn’t find for some reason, Sam just stumbles into The Grid. He ignores the code about “sanity checks” and “last will and testament” on Flynn’s computer. He had to notice the laser and the fact that it’s pointed at Flynn’s chair. Maybe I’ve seen too many sci-fi movies but a laser is similar to a gun at this point. I wouldn’t sit with my back to it. It would have been cool if we see Clu watching or monitoring Sam at the computer and it’s actually Clu who fires the laser. Kind of like how Motoko in Ghost in the Shell Solid State Society is always watching via hacking cameras and stuff. Also, what happened to the transport to the electronic world sequence? The quick transport is kind of cool since we’ve seen a lot of transport animations since TRON in shows like Ghost in the Shell and Avatar but I wish they still tried. If they were really creative we would have seen the transport and creation of an obvious character at the end.
Once inside the electronic world, Sam encounters the Sirens that somehow have the ability to access Sam’s program and change his avatar. What type of programs are these? I noticed that this room is called the “Armor Bay.” I guess that’s some kind of inside joke as there isn’t a program on The Grid that can survive getting hit by a disc. One of the selling points of the movie was the fact that the new suits actually light up. The more realistic suits weren’t a big deal to me but these new suits don’t have the circuitry light up when programs drink energy or when get they get emotional. I always thought that TRON’s reaction after that tank program says Flynn and RAM were derezzed and the power up for the big disc throw at Sark was pretty cool stuff. Many scenes in the original show energy flowing through the circuitry of the programs. Sadly that is yet another detail missing in Legacy. A number of people come off as wearing clothes with lights and not computer programs. This is apparent in the first scene with Sam on the recognizer and in the club scene. It’s kind of generic looking for programs just to have normal clothes with a few light strips. What would have been cool is if the clothing was just a skin. When Sam enters The Grid, he could have pulled up his jacket and seen circuitry. After all, even though computers are easy to use today, they are far more complicated with many different programs running in the background.
Inside Flynn’s hideout, Quorra points out Flynn’s books. I know this scene is needed for Quorra’s character progression however these books show that Flynn has access to other systems after Clu’s takeover. Because Clu doesn’t know about Flynn’s off grid home. Plus, I don’t think many books were archived digitally back in the 80s. Why can’t Flynn send a message to Alan? Maybe via an unreturned library book notice or something? It’s also odd that in the opening, Flynn states that he created the new grid for programs and Users but Flynn is the only User who ever enters The Grid. In the big speech by Clu, he states that Flynn used The Grid just for himself. Also, how come tanks, recognizers, and lightcycles can’t go off grid and look for Flynn’s hideout? We see that Clu has no problem flying over the off grid area. It’s like we are missing an action sequence of Sam in Flynn’s lightcycle heading back to city. We should have seen the ruins of tanks and recognizers after Flynn’s battle with Clu just to know the scale of the battle. There are some cool things in the original like Flynn seeing all the tank programs he designed and ending up in the trash area where he puts the recognizer back together.
Once at the club, we are introduced to the Zuse/Castor character. Who programmed this guy? He is easily one of the most annoying characters I’ve ever seen on screen. The whole sequence is pointless and one of the worst parts of the movie. When I first saw Flynn enter the club, I thought he was taking over the programs which would have been really cool. Now it seems like the programs just decide to fight on their own.
At the portal, since Sam has User access, why does Clu need Flynn’s disc to leave? Clu is a copy of Flynn and not a normal program so he should have the data necessary to survive in the real world. The same goes for Quorra since she’s an ISO and a bio-digital program. Zuse mentions that Flynn positioned the portal far away so programs couldn’t escape. But we are never provided with the rules of this new world. This is not The Matrix. Many times in the movie Sam wants to leave via the portal with just his disc. Flynn never says that you need my disc to leave. There is Clu’s whole plan to go to the real world with all the programs and vehicles. But surely, once out of The Grid, Clu could have figured out a way to use Flynn’s data. I noticed that we see Flynn’s disc energy pass through the programs when Clu attaches it to his ship but no real change to the programs. We don’t see the programs look at their hands or anything that would show a real change to them being able to go to the real world. Furthermore, why does Flynn sacrifice himself? The movie wants the sacrifice to be similar to the events original movie but it isn’t. Flynn gives up, thus buying time for Sam and Quorra to escape. But why can’t Flynn hold Clu in the air kind of like how Neo in The Matrix holds bullets? Legacy has no problems picking some Matrix references and not others. Why is reintegration the only option? Also, I/O towers were everywhere for programs to communicate with Users in the original movie. But why is there only one portal in Legacy? For that matter, what programs are in this new system? Are they trapped by Flynn unable to contact their Users? If this is true, then why are the programs in the club talking about uprising against Clu? By the way, did anyone notice that Flynn’s Arcade entrance to The Grid is unguarded when Sam and Gem are headed to the club? Shouldn’t there be a portal here? What programmer only has one way into his system. Especially after being trapped in the original movie. Not only that, but a portal that locks from the outside on a timer that no one knows about.
When I saw the poster for Legacy with Flynn and Clu. I thought Flynn was simply going to lose control over Clu. There is a good line in TRON where Flynn tells Clu that he’s the best program that’s ever been written. That he is dogged and relentless. I wish they used this premise for Clu instead of the one we get in Legacy. Flynn copies himself to create Clu. I even think that they are linked like multiple programs that share the same data. Flynn says that Clu fed on his resistance. Flynn seems to know that Clu is still alive after the lightjet battle. What Clu is exactly, is a very important aspect barely touched on in Legacy. Yes, there are a few lines here and there. But what it means to have to fight a computer version of yourself with knowledge of your strengths and weaknesses isn’t fully explored. There is another problem too. In the original, everything you do or learn is on disc but in Legacy it’s even past memories. When Clu checks Sam’s disc, he sees the past with the opening Ducati sequence, meeting with Alan, etc. So, Clu being a copy of Flynn should give him the same User permissions as Flynn. That is why as soon as we see Clu is a copy of Flynn I think we have a problem. Maybe if Flynn says he removed or altered certain aspects of Clu’s programming to make him more efficient. But that never happens. It could have been a similar scene to what was in the director’s cut of Terminator 2. When John Connor gives the Terminator the ability to learn. Anyway, Clu obviously has Flynn’s memories. He has a mirrored version of Flynn’s speech from the opening about the computer being a new world. Clu and Flynn are even positioned alike in the scenes. Yet Clu behaves almost like Sark or the MCP throughout the movie. He even gets to use Sark’s “finish the game” line to Rinzler in the lightjet battle. According to Flynn in the opening, Clu can think. But Clu does standard bad guy stuff at end to make him more of a threat. Stuff that Flynn would never do. Of course, people will say that Clu is a program that was given the priority of creating the perfect system and changing the world. That he’s unable to change his priorities. But we never find out what Flynn’s idea of perfect system is. And Clu does alter his priorities. He plots against Flynn while attempting to perfect the system. That can’t be something Flynn programmed into Clu. The Grid was far from perfect with the alcoholic program sitting around, Clu allowing Zuse to plot stuff, and off grid areas that Clu’s guards can’t enter. Also, since Clu is a copy of Flynn, why isn’t Clu afraid or wary of TRON? Flynn was very concerned about facing him after Quorra’s capture. Furthermore, why does Clu want to immediately kill Sam? This is another problem with introducing Clu as a copy of Flynn. He should have Flynn’s memories for Sam and not automatically think he’s an imperfect User that must be destroyed. It is interesting that Clu can’t bring himself to kill Flynn at the portal. But it’s open season on Sam.
Either Flynn or Quorra should have mentioned Clu’s creation to Sam. That simply deleting Clu from the real world could harm Flynn as well. Both Flynn and Quorra had many chances to tell Sam that Clu isn’t a normal program but a copy. That could have made the whole reintegration ending plausible. Also, why does Flynn never tell Sam about having User powers? I get that Flynn is really messed up from being trapped inside the computer for so long. But as soon as they decide to try to escape he should tell Sam that he can do more than just normal fighting stuff. A small thing, but I wish Flynn would have mentioned something about writing a program to match his real world age with his computer age. That would have been an easy explanation for why Flynn has somehow aged inside the computer. But then Clu should be old as well unless modified like I mentioned in my Terminator reference.
Did anyone notice all the Star Wars prequel references in Legacy? There is the recognizer approaching the dome shot which is similar to a lot of the senate and I believe Jedi temple shots. Rinzler’s name. Quorra and some of the bad guys have lightsabers. The one bad guy that breaks through the skylight in the club even has a Darth Maul moment. There is a shot of Clu’s repurposed programs that is almost the same as the Attack of the Clones Kamino shot of the troopers. We also get cheering and booing crowds during the lightcycle game for unknown reasons just like when Palpatine takes over in Revenge of the Sith. There are Flynn and Sam character moments mirroring each other just like Anakin and Luke. Scenes such as the Encom big door break in, Sam’s shirt removal, and Sam is #3 in the lightcycle battle, etc. Not to mention that Sam uses Flynn’s dialog throughout the movie.
I do like many things in Legacy. I love the scene when Sam brings up Flynn’s Ducati but the dialog to get to it is fairly dull. But Flynn’s 80s dialog and most of his scenes are cool. Although, I haven’t seen The Big Lebowski so I can’t comment on Flynn just being that character.
The love the design of Quorra and Gem as cyberpunk girls. Oliva Wilde is finally in something worth owning. The makeup on both Quorra and Gem gives them an otherworldly feel. The final shot of Quorra on the Ducati is brilliant. It’s probably one of the best shots I’ve ever seen of a girl on a motorcycle. I’m going to frame a capture for my movie characters on motorcycles setup. They better have Quorra riding a Ducati and lightcycle in the sequel. I do think the whole ISOs manifesting themselves is a stretch. The original Ghost in the Shell movie did a better job with the new A.I and Puppet Master.
If the movie was really creative, we would have seen the creation of Quorra upon leaving the electronic world. I never liked seeing Dumont’s human skull when MCP is draining his power in the original TRON but seeing exactly what Quorra is composed of in human or bio-digital form would have been interesting. Maybe when Quorra was injured we should have seen something similar to Sam’s blood drop during Disc Wars, which I’m sure is a Matrix moment. I wish that Quorra was the real focus. I know they want her to be tough and kick butt but she is the last ISO. Sam should have been protecting her at the portal. After all, Quorra couldn’t handle those guards in the club. No way was she going to defeat Clu. Flynn should have said to Clu “she’s the future” instead of “he’s my son.”
The music is awesome and feels like Daft Punk tried to create a new type of electronic score with the impact of the original. I believe they succeeded. I love the “Sea of Simulation” track during the solar sailer trip. I own the limited record and will get a complete CD if ever released. I also rediscovered Journey after seeing Legacy. I would play “Only Solutions” on occasion when listening to the TRON soundtrack. But I started listening to my Time3 set and picked up the limited 3 disc “Essential” set for my car.
I managed to get the TRON and TRON Legacy Mondo posters. Quorra looks amazing on the Legacy screen print. I’m still looking for a high resolution version of that Quorra facebook banner too.
I’m starting to like the new lightcycles a bit more but they are still in the movie for a small amount of time and not as classic as the originals. However, I do like Flynn’s new “vintage” lightcycle. If I get a Ducati, I will modify it based on the colors of Flynn’s bike.
After watching TRON and Legacy together, it is apparent that the original is extremely artistic and the sequel at times feels like a product or franchise opportunity. Legacy just has too many forgettable moments and stuff left open for the sequel. There is no reason why TRON shouldn’t be at the end of the movie fighting Clu to help save Flynn. In the end, there are a few lines in TRON that perfectly describe Legacy. Alan and Gibbs are talking early in the movie and Alan says that “some programs will start thinking.” Gibbs’ response is that “computers and programs will start thinking and the people will stop.” Another final line from Gibbs is that their “spirit remains in every program” that spirit is what is missing from Legacy. That spirit is what makes a sequel classic.
I decided to have a double feature with the original TRON and Legacy. First off, I believe that TRON should be grouped with classic cyberpunk films. Shows like Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Blade Runner, The Matrix, and the Ghost in the Shell movies & TV show. It’s interesting how the only sequel in the group not made by the original director was made by one of the best directors ever. James Cameron made The Terminator before Aliens. Thus proving that he could do a classic cyberpunk film before taking on the sequel to Alien. Aliens is still the best example of how to do a proper sequel to a classic film. The animated film Renaissance Paris 2054 also has a strong cyberpunk feel and is heavily influenced by a few of the previous titles. Renaissance isn’t quite a classic but I do feel that it tries a lot more than Legacy. Anyway, if you see TRON in the same company with any of the previous films then you will be fairly disappointed with Legacy. I’ve seen a few people here and on another forum compare Legacy to Blade Runner but the only recent film worthy of that comparison is Inception, which is not only a good cyberpunk movie but one of the best movies ever.
TRON: “The Original Classic”
To discuss Legacy, I’ll start by giving my feelings on the original TRON. The opening of the film is one of the best movie openings. You have the creation of TRON and a beautiful transition from electronic to real world. The film does a good job of establishing the world and its rules. We have the arcade opening which shows how we see videogames and move to the electronic world and how the games really appear. We get an understanding of why the lightcycles behave the way they do on the game grid. Because that’s how they move in the arcade game designed by Flynn. The quick turns are something people seem to have a problem with for some reason. Here is a good interview with Steven Lisberger and Henry Jenkins where they talk about the lightcycle physics and other stuff.
TRONsmedia Part One - YouTube - Steven Lisberger and Henry Jenkins Interview
It’s worth noting that once the lightcycles leave the game grid they act like normal motorcycles. In the original electronic world everything looks, sounds, and feels different. It is a new, never before seen world. Even the soundtrack was different. All of this stuff is important to understand when comparing the original TRON to Legacy. The newness and exploring topics that were far ahead of their time in 1982.
In the real world, we are presented with new types of technology. Most of the best cyberpunk movies present at least one new device. The stuff in TRON is very high tech if you happened to see the film in the 80s. From Dillenger’s desk interface, Flynn’s Space Paranoids arcade game, and the teleportation laser. Sure we have seen transporter technology before in Star Trek but it didn’t work like the laser in TRON. It is cool yet scary the way the laser takes Flynn apart piece by piece. The transport sequence was very 3D, almost like an IMAX presentation when viewed as a kid back in the 80s.
In the electronic world, the transport to the lightcycle grid and the bikes forming around the riders is still very cool. The lightcycle scene feels fast and very dangerous. How the game starts with a chicken race and the following maze trap is great stuff. The Legacy scene might be newer but the original lightcycle sequence and escape is still far more thrilling. Did anyone happen to notice in Legacy that one of Clu’s backup riders should still be riding around the lightcycle grid? On a side note, I believe that The Matrix Reloaded still has the best motorcycle scene. Back to TRON, even the disc battles in the original are better than Legacy’s battles. For that matter, nothing in Legacy is as cool as TRON’s introductory battle against four programs and his final battle against Sark. Here is a pretty good but at times harsh review comparing many of TRON’s scenes versus the ones in Legacy.
The best TRON:LEGACY REVIEW EVER - TRON Legacy Review
Flynn’s Legacy
Moving on to Legacy, I always thought TRON was a closed story. Sure, ideas could be worked into a sequel. Questions like what was Flynn going to do next? How would the electronic world evolve? Now that the transporting laser works on humans, how will that change the world? But for the most part, everything for the characters was resolved. To me, when you do a sequel you need to be completely faithful to the original. The same tone, feel, look, characters, etc. Not pick and choose elements for your story and ignore others. TRON’s story is fairly straight forward. A software engineer wants his videogames back. In Legacy, the videogames are a side aspect of Flynn’s software experiments. These experiments are presented in vague terms and never fully explained. Plus, tons of plot threads are saved for the sequel. From Sam’s take over of Encom and his most likely conflict with Dillenger Jr., Quorra living in the real world and what that means, the fate of TRON, and the possibility of Flynn being alive although I believe that he is gone. From here I’ll breakdown my problems with Legacy.
We’ll start with a big problem, Alan and the sadly missing Lora. In the original, Lora states that “this laser is my life’s work.” Alan even sees the laser test and jokes about it disintegrating things and having it transport him to Hawaii. Alan’s character loses intelligence for the father and son story to work. Alan doesn’t look into how Flynn was using TRON or even what he was working on and Lora is cut out all together. What does Yori think when TRON is moved to Flynn’s personal system? What about the fact that Gibbs and other workers were around for laser test with the orange. I’m sure there were computer records of the laser firing the night Flynn, Lora, and Alan break into Encom. Or at the very least someone will notice something in Encom’s monthly power bill since the laser seems to take a lot of energy to power up. But all this is ignored for the sequel to work.
Past the Alan and Lora problem, there were many other things that bugged me. Starting with the flying TRON Legacy title credits. I know it’s a homage to the original title but “Legacy” should be in the titles. I thought it was hidden in the buildings or something but it’s not. It’s almost like they think the movie can stand on its own but that’s stretching things a bit. In the real world, why is the cinematography like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight? I still need to pick up the Legacy issue of American Cinematographer. Maybe the answer is there. But right now, I just assume it’s because of the popularity and profitability of the two Batman films. If I was the director or cinematographer, I would have used the final TRON shot as a guide with the red, green, and gold colors. It seems like they tried a bit with the shot on top of the Encom building. Also, I want to know who thought that the overweight coffee and doughnut rent-a-cop thing would be funny. Flynn sneaking across the room in the original with the accompanying music cue was funny. No way would that rent-a-cop climb and go out on that building crane. Plus, there is the dull and typical stuffed suit board meeting that has nothing to do, for the most part, with the main story and only sets up the sequel conflict between Sam and Dillenger Jr.
Moving on to Flynn’s Arcade, once Sam finds Flynn’s secret room, which for twenty years Alan or Lora couldn’t find for some reason, Sam just stumbles into The Grid. He ignores the code about “sanity checks” and “last will and testament” on Flynn’s computer. He had to notice the laser and the fact that it’s pointed at Flynn’s chair. Maybe I’ve seen too many sci-fi movies but a laser is similar to a gun at this point. I wouldn’t sit with my back to it. It would have been cool if we see Clu watching or monitoring Sam at the computer and it’s actually Clu who fires the laser. Kind of like how Motoko in Ghost in the Shell Solid State Society is always watching via hacking cameras and stuff. Also, what happened to the transport to the electronic world sequence? The quick transport is kind of cool since we’ve seen a lot of transport animations since TRON in shows like Ghost in the Shell and Avatar but I wish they still tried. If they were really creative we would have seen the transport and creation of an obvious character at the end.
Once inside the electronic world, Sam encounters the Sirens that somehow have the ability to access Sam’s program and change his avatar. What type of programs are these? I noticed that this room is called the “Armor Bay.” I guess that’s some kind of inside joke as there isn’t a program on The Grid that can survive getting hit by a disc. One of the selling points of the movie was the fact that the new suits actually light up. The more realistic suits weren’t a big deal to me but these new suits don’t have the circuitry light up when programs drink energy or when get they get emotional. I always thought that TRON’s reaction after that tank program says Flynn and RAM were derezzed and the power up for the big disc throw at Sark was pretty cool stuff. Many scenes in the original show energy flowing through the circuitry of the programs. Sadly that is yet another detail missing in Legacy. A number of people come off as wearing clothes with lights and not computer programs. This is apparent in the first scene with Sam on the recognizer and in the club scene. It’s kind of generic looking for programs just to have normal clothes with a few light strips. What would have been cool is if the clothing was just a skin. When Sam enters The Grid, he could have pulled up his jacket and seen circuitry. After all, even though computers are easy to use today, they are far more complicated with many different programs running in the background.
Inside Flynn’s hideout, Quorra points out Flynn’s books. I know this scene is needed for Quorra’s character progression however these books show that Flynn has access to other systems after Clu’s takeover. Because Clu doesn’t know about Flynn’s off grid home. Plus, I don’t think many books were archived digitally back in the 80s. Why can’t Flynn send a message to Alan? Maybe via an unreturned library book notice or something? It’s also odd that in the opening, Flynn states that he created the new grid for programs and Users but Flynn is the only User who ever enters The Grid. In the big speech by Clu, he states that Flynn used The Grid just for himself. Also, how come tanks, recognizers, and lightcycles can’t go off grid and look for Flynn’s hideout? We see that Clu has no problem flying over the off grid area. It’s like we are missing an action sequence of Sam in Flynn’s lightcycle heading back to city. We should have seen the ruins of tanks and recognizers after Flynn’s battle with Clu just to know the scale of the battle. There are some cool things in the original like Flynn seeing all the tank programs he designed and ending up in the trash area where he puts the recognizer back together.
Once at the club, we are introduced to the Zuse/Castor character. Who programmed this guy? He is easily one of the most annoying characters I’ve ever seen on screen. The whole sequence is pointless and one of the worst parts of the movie. When I first saw Flynn enter the club, I thought he was taking over the programs which would have been really cool. Now it seems like the programs just decide to fight on their own.
At the portal, since Sam has User access, why does Clu need Flynn’s disc to leave? Clu is a copy of Flynn and not a normal program so he should have the data necessary to survive in the real world. The same goes for Quorra since she’s an ISO and a bio-digital program. Zuse mentions that Flynn positioned the portal far away so programs couldn’t escape. But we are never provided with the rules of this new world. This is not The Matrix. Many times in the movie Sam wants to leave via the portal with just his disc. Flynn never says that you need my disc to leave. There is Clu’s whole plan to go to the real world with all the programs and vehicles. But surely, once out of The Grid, Clu could have figured out a way to use Flynn’s data. I noticed that we see Flynn’s disc energy pass through the programs when Clu attaches it to his ship but no real change to the programs. We don’t see the programs look at their hands or anything that would show a real change to them being able to go to the real world. Furthermore, why does Flynn sacrifice himself? The movie wants the sacrifice to be similar to the events original movie but it isn’t. Flynn gives up, thus buying time for Sam and Quorra to escape. But why can’t Flynn hold Clu in the air kind of like how Neo in The Matrix holds bullets? Legacy has no problems picking some Matrix references and not others. Why is reintegration the only option? Also, I/O towers were everywhere for programs to communicate with Users in the original movie. But why is there only one portal in Legacy? For that matter, what programs are in this new system? Are they trapped by Flynn unable to contact their Users? If this is true, then why are the programs in the club talking about uprising against Clu? By the way, did anyone notice that Flynn’s Arcade entrance to The Grid is unguarded when Sam and Gem are headed to the club? Shouldn’t there be a portal here? What programmer only has one way into his system. Especially after being trapped in the original movie. Not only that, but a portal that locks from the outside on a timer that no one knows about.
CLU: Version 2 - “The Broken Promise”
When I saw the poster for Legacy with Flynn and Clu. I thought Flynn was simply going to lose control over Clu. There is a good line in TRON where Flynn tells Clu that he’s the best program that’s ever been written. That he is dogged and relentless. I wish they used this premise for Clu instead of the one we get in Legacy. Flynn copies himself to create Clu. I even think that they are linked like multiple programs that share the same data. Flynn says that Clu fed on his resistance. Flynn seems to know that Clu is still alive after the lightjet battle. What Clu is exactly, is a very important aspect barely touched on in Legacy. Yes, there are a few lines here and there. But what it means to have to fight a computer version of yourself with knowledge of your strengths and weaknesses isn’t fully explored. There is another problem too. In the original, everything you do or learn is on disc but in Legacy it’s even past memories. When Clu checks Sam’s disc, he sees the past with the opening Ducati sequence, meeting with Alan, etc. So, Clu being a copy of Flynn should give him the same User permissions as Flynn. That is why as soon as we see Clu is a copy of Flynn I think we have a problem. Maybe if Flynn says he removed or altered certain aspects of Clu’s programming to make him more efficient. But that never happens. It could have been a similar scene to what was in the director’s cut of Terminator 2. When John Connor gives the Terminator the ability to learn. Anyway, Clu obviously has Flynn’s memories. He has a mirrored version of Flynn’s speech from the opening about the computer being a new world. Clu and Flynn are even positioned alike in the scenes. Yet Clu behaves almost like Sark or the MCP throughout the movie. He even gets to use Sark’s “finish the game” line to Rinzler in the lightjet battle. According to Flynn in the opening, Clu can think. But Clu does standard bad guy stuff at end to make him more of a threat. Stuff that Flynn would never do. Of course, people will say that Clu is a program that was given the priority of creating the perfect system and changing the world. That he’s unable to change his priorities. But we never find out what Flynn’s idea of perfect system is. And Clu does alter his priorities. He plots against Flynn while attempting to perfect the system. That can’t be something Flynn programmed into Clu. The Grid was far from perfect with the alcoholic program sitting around, Clu allowing Zuse to plot stuff, and off grid areas that Clu’s guards can’t enter. Also, since Clu is a copy of Flynn, why isn’t Clu afraid or wary of TRON? Flynn was very concerned about facing him after Quorra’s capture. Furthermore, why does Clu want to immediately kill Sam? This is another problem with introducing Clu as a copy of Flynn. He should have Flynn’s memories for Sam and not automatically think he’s an imperfect User that must be destroyed. It is interesting that Clu can’t bring himself to kill Flynn at the portal. But it’s open season on Sam.
Either Flynn or Quorra should have mentioned Clu’s creation to Sam. That simply deleting Clu from the real world could harm Flynn as well. Both Flynn and Quorra had many chances to tell Sam that Clu isn’t a normal program but a copy. That could have made the whole reintegration ending plausible. Also, why does Flynn never tell Sam about having User powers? I get that Flynn is really messed up from being trapped inside the computer for so long. But as soon as they decide to try to escape he should tell Sam that he can do more than just normal fighting stuff. A small thing, but I wish Flynn would have mentioned something about writing a program to match his real world age with his computer age. That would have been an easy explanation for why Flynn has somehow aged inside the computer. But then Clu should be old as well unless modified like I mentioned in my Terminator reference.
The Dreaded Prequel Similarities
Did anyone notice all the Star Wars prequel references in Legacy? There is the recognizer approaching the dome shot which is similar to a lot of the senate and I believe Jedi temple shots. Rinzler’s name. Quorra and some of the bad guys have lightsabers. The one bad guy that breaks through the skylight in the club even has a Darth Maul moment. There is a shot of Clu’s repurposed programs that is almost the same as the Attack of the Clones Kamino shot of the troopers. We also get cheering and booing crowds during the lightcycle game for unknown reasons just like when Palpatine takes over in Revenge of the Sith. There are Flynn and Sam character moments mirroring each other just like Anakin and Luke. Scenes such as the Encom big door break in, Sam’s shirt removal, and Sam is #3 in the lightcycle battle, etc. Not to mention that Sam uses Flynn’s dialog throughout the movie.
The Legacy of TRON Legacy
I do like many things in Legacy. I love the scene when Sam brings up Flynn’s Ducati but the dialog to get to it is fairly dull. But Flynn’s 80s dialog and most of his scenes are cool. Although, I haven’t seen The Big Lebowski so I can’t comment on Flynn just being that character.
The love the design of Quorra and Gem as cyberpunk girls. Oliva Wilde is finally in something worth owning. The makeup on both Quorra and Gem gives them an otherworldly feel. The final shot of Quorra on the Ducati is brilliant. It’s probably one of the best shots I’ve ever seen of a girl on a motorcycle. I’m going to frame a capture for my movie characters on motorcycles setup. They better have Quorra riding a Ducati and lightcycle in the sequel. I do think the whole ISOs manifesting themselves is a stretch. The original Ghost in the Shell movie did a better job with the new A.I and Puppet Master.
If the movie was really creative, we would have seen the creation of Quorra upon leaving the electronic world. I never liked seeing Dumont’s human skull when MCP is draining his power in the original TRON but seeing exactly what Quorra is composed of in human or bio-digital form would have been interesting. Maybe when Quorra was injured we should have seen something similar to Sam’s blood drop during Disc Wars, which I’m sure is a Matrix moment. I wish that Quorra was the real focus. I know they want her to be tough and kick butt but she is the last ISO. Sam should have been protecting her at the portal. After all, Quorra couldn’t handle those guards in the club. No way was she going to defeat Clu. Flynn should have said to Clu “she’s the future” instead of “he’s my son.”
The music is awesome and feels like Daft Punk tried to create a new type of electronic score with the impact of the original. I believe they succeeded. I love the “Sea of Simulation” track during the solar sailer trip. I own the limited record and will get a complete CD if ever released. I also rediscovered Journey after seeing Legacy. I would play “Only Solutions” on occasion when listening to the TRON soundtrack. But I started listening to my Time3 set and picked up the limited 3 disc “Essential” set for my car.
I managed to get the TRON and TRON Legacy Mondo posters. Quorra looks amazing on the Legacy screen print. I’m still looking for a high resolution version of that Quorra facebook banner too.
I’m starting to like the new lightcycles a bit more but they are still in the movie for a small amount of time and not as classic as the originals. However, I do like Flynn’s new “vintage” lightcycle. If I get a Ducati, I will modify it based on the colors of Flynn’s bike.
After watching TRON and Legacy together, it is apparent that the original is extremely artistic and the sequel at times feels like a product or franchise opportunity. Legacy just has too many forgettable moments and stuff left open for the sequel. There is no reason why TRON shouldn’t be at the end of the movie fighting Clu to help save Flynn. In the end, there are a few lines in TRON that perfectly describe Legacy. Alan and Gibbs are talking early in the movie and Alan says that “some programs will start thinking.” Gibbs’ response is that “computers and programs will start thinking and the people will stop.” Another final line from Gibbs is that their “spirit remains in every program” that spirit is what is missing from Legacy. That spirit is what makes a sequel classic.
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Holy TLDR!!!
His stock would still be his stock. They can't take it away from him. And he'd keep it just to PO them.
His stock would still be his stock. They can't take it away from him. And he'd keep it just to PO them.
CB2001
Master Member
But he STOLE the games from Flynn and pretty much committed fraud. I would think that once the board kicked him out, his stocks would no longer be valid as well because of the fact that he basically lied about stealing the games AND created a program that pretty much stole information and programs from other computer systems OUTSIDE of Encom. So, basically, he's twice a thief. Wouldn't a company like Encom have a clause in their contracts that state that if they commit a crime on company property that any stocks they have would be voided?
nickytea
Master Member
I think it was considering this story a bridge. The "Legacy" hadn't been passed on until the end of the movie, where the closing titles display, "Tron: Legacy."
That's just my theory. Can't explain it otherwise.
CB2001
Master Member
That I agree with. From a filmmaker and storyteller's point of view, having just TRON at the beginning represents the start of the tale with Kevin Flynn, as this is the first moment we see him. And when it comes to the end, Sam Flynn and Quorra are now going to carry on Flynn's work, thus TRON: Legacy finally being used. It's a symbolism that does work best in the context of the story because now, Sam and Quorra are going to carry on what Flynn started (Sam, taking over Encom. Quorra, her existence somehow changing the real world).
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
I've rewatched it a few times.
I love it!
And what I really cant wait for is the next one where I get to see Sam Flynn (Garrett Hedlund) take on Edward Dillinger (Cillian Murphy).
Bring on Tron 3 ASAP!
If done correctly, the next one will blow the whole franchise out of the water and make both previous films better. Tron Legacy was just a bridge to connect the old with the new.
I loved it, but I can also see great potential in the future.
This can be the kind of sci fi franchise that inspires a future generation.
I love it!
And what I really cant wait for is the next one where I get to see Sam Flynn (Garrett Hedlund) take on Edward Dillinger (Cillian Murphy).
Bring on Tron 3 ASAP!
If done correctly, the next one will blow the whole franchise out of the water and make both previous films better. Tron Legacy was just a bridge to connect the old with the new.
I loved it, but I can also see great potential in the future.
This can be the kind of sci fi franchise that inspires a future generation.
CB2001
Master Member
I know a lot of people don't count it as canon to the movies, but I'd like to see more elements brought in from the TRON 2.0 video game. Just because the game isn't canon doesn't mean it's not an excellent resource for the filmmakers to draw from. I mean, Jet Bradley looks like he could be the Han Solo to Sam's Luke Skywalker. That's just my opinion, but since Jet is a video game programmer (in the game), imagine how useful he could be to Sam (especially since Kevin Flynn created the video games of Space Paranoids, Lightcycles, etc, and look at how much he rocked on the game grid).
Of course, that's just my opinion.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
Rebelscum
Sr Member
ONEYE
Sr Member
CB2001
Master Member
I guess he doesn't like the cornbread either.
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