X-Men: Days of Future Past (Post-release)

[Laspector]

Saw it this weekend. I won't even begin to go into the bazillion questions it raised in my brain about continuity, plotholes, etc. I'll just say I went in with an open mind, rode the train, and loved it.

 

[comonbub]

Saw it this weekend. I won't even begin to go into the bazillion questions it raised in my brain about continuity, plotholes, etc. I'll just say I went in with an open mind, rode the train, and loved it.

Wut. Plot. Holes. Please don't say because they don't say how Xavier is still alive or how Wolverine has his claws back...I saw none and I know these movies front to back.

 

[JD]

Wut. Plot. Holes. Please don't say because they don't say how Xavier is still alive or how Wolverine has his claws back...I saw none and I know these movies front to back.

C'mon, dude... there are ton of plot holes, inconsistencies and "leaps of faith" in this movie. Mostly, this movie (and most movies) has a ton of lazy writing - little bit here and there that don't make a whole lotta sense, but are generally ignored (or dumbed down).

I think the biggest one is - if the original timeline panned out the way it was supposed to, how was Mystique around for the first X-Men films? Was she captured, then freed? Did Magneto rescue her? Where were the Sentinels from 1973 on through the first X- Movies (because there were supposed to be 9,000 of them). Let's add the whole Mystique/Raven bit being a ploy between Charles and Erik - nothing in the first movies indicated this at all...

Then there's Xavier - yes, they pointed to his return in XM-3 but, that story was obviously never told. It's a leap of faith - I'm comfortable with it, but I can see how others may have an issue with it. Ditto with Wolvie's claws - there's a story there someplace - it's a shame they skipped it.

Next let's talk about Bolivar Trask. Trask had quite a transformation - he went from a regular height black make to a white little person. I get it - it's recasting, again not a big deal.

Where did Quicksilver get a Walkman in 1973? Why was powerless Charles even at the Pentagon? - he had no powers and was pretty much dead weight. Why didn't Stryker - with full authority to do so, order the planes the muties escaped with? Not only does Kitty have a new unexplained power (sending a mind back in time), so does Magneto - he can separate metal on a microscopic level and use that on the Sentinel's electronics (which he never saw) in different train cars - that's quite a bump in power.

Charlie gets his powers back - finds Raven at the airport - he decides to manipulate her mind, but then can't. Did she somehow implant Erik's helmet in her skull without anyone knowing? What did Logan tell Charles and Erik in FC vs. what Charles tells Logan in DOFP? It changed, too. Where'd all the dust come from on Cerebro?

It's a small nitpick, but Xavier's origin story changed from XM:FC to XMOFP. In FC, Charles shows us that he is a mutant with control over his powers... in DOFP, the story changed suggesting he didn't have control of his telepathy when he met Raven.

...and why not just take Quicksilver with you and make this whole movie a whole lot quicker an easier? ..or send Wolvie back a few more years and off Raven or Trask before it even got to this point?

Just because it was decent action movie doesn't mean you have to blindly accept it and act like it was perfect.

 

[wolfman10]

C'mon, dude... there are ton of plot holes, inconsistencies and "leaps of faith" in this movie. Mostly, this movie (and most movies) has a ton of lazy writing - little bit here and there that don't make a whole lotta sense, but are generally ignored (or dumbed down).

I think the biggest one is - if the original timeline panned out the way it was supposed to, how was Mystique around for the first X-Men films? Was she captured, then freed? Did Magneto rescue her? Where were the Sentinels from 1973 on through the first X- Movies (because there were supposed to be 9,000 of them). Let's add the whole Mystique/Raven bit being a ploy between Charles and Erik - nothing in the first movies indicated this at all...

I think Mystique was recused by Magneto and it also makes sense now that her and Xavier did not act like they knew each other, because they took brain tissue samples from her. It could have made her forget most of her life and it also makes sense that she was a quite, ruthless henchman for Magneto in X-1, X-2, and X-3. The change from Jenifer Lawrence's Mystique and Rebecca Romijn's Mystique kind of makes sense due to DOFP explaining the original timeline. Also, given the dialogue in the X-3 Mystique interrogation scene it seems to imply Magneto is manipulated her this whole time and she says her family tried to kill her, Magneto could have easy convinced her that her family turned her into Trask industries or tipped the government off to her plan to kill Trask leading to her capture but not preventing the assassination itself. Mystique and Magneto are also implied to have romantic ties in X-2 and X-3, so in some sick way Magneto got the girl. On the sentinels, I took it that the Sentinel program was shut down due to Trask's assassination and was only reactivated in 2013 with the Mystique inspired Sentinels. That fits with the after credit scene in The Wolverine the weapon Magneto is referring to is the Mystique inspired Sentinels. Plus, in X-2 Styker's computer that Mystique breaks into has files for "Project Wideawake" which shows that the sentinel program is still around, but back in planning stages and it is also a reference to the DOFP story line in the comic. Given the connection with Trask and Stkyer it makes sense that Stkyer had that file on his computer. The Danger Room scene in X-3 makes more sense, due to the fact the old sentinels were briefly shown in 1973.
Trust me, I see your point that some tings are not explained, but given the amount of characters and subplots it would be crazy to try to explain everything. There are other plot holes of course.

 

[JD]

wolfman10 - tl;dr - I was obviously making a point. I accept that there are plenty of 'leaps of faith' and gaps that don't always need to be filled in for most movies.

DOFP was a pretty solid solid.

 

[wolfman10]

@JD Yeah, I posted that I see your point, so I thought it was obvious that I understood you. It's all good. The sentinel thing was pretty well explained in the Xavier flashback DOFP scene which was something I worried about, the Mystique thing is a "leap of faith", but it makes more sense now after DOFP to me anyway.

 

[JD]

I tackled some of the plot holes in the link that was posted earlier The 20 Biggest Mistakes in the X-Men Movies - CraveOnline
1. Professor X's Body: Not a plot hole that is Patrick Stewart on the bed on the X-3 after credit scene. The commentary on the DVD confirms it is him and that it is Xavier’s twin. Also, it seems that his powers are somehow connected to his paralysis in DOFP so that might explain him in a wheelchair. What makes no sense is how he is walking and using his powers in the flashback in X-3 and X-O though, unless Beast perfected the formula.
2. Cyclops's Age: Cyclops is in high school in X-O, which means he is in the age range of 14-18. X-1 is set in 2005 according to the timeline and X-O ends in 1979. That would make his age 40-44. That is still kind of bad, but he isn’t 50.
3. Wolverine Remembers World War II: He also remembers Kayla because we hear him calling her name in his mind in The Wolverine when he wakes up in the chair. We see in DOFP, when Xavier looks in mind that he remembers Victor breaking his bone claws in X-O fight. So, he remembers more than just WW2, he could be regaining some of his memories, but it is hit and miss because he does not remember what he was doing in 1973.
4. Magneto's Helmet is Half a Century Old: Good point, Xavier should be able to remember the helmet. Also, another strange thing is that the helmet changes the movies, so it might be that Magneto makes new ones to keep up with Xavier’s growing powers. So it could be that when Xavier was connected to Cerebro his telepathy was strong enough and had the range to detect Magneto until he updated his helmet to the X-1 design.
5. Moira MacTaggert's Age: It is a hole, unless the movie version created a way to give humans powers like in the ultimate universe, but there is nothing to support this in the films.
6. There Are Two Emma Frosts: The issue isn’t that there are “two”, it is that Emma Frost (January Jones) dies between First Class and DOFP, so the Emma Frost in X-O can’t be the same character because the end of X-O is set in 1979. Emma (X-O version) and Kayla could be Emma Frost’s (First Class version) daughters. It would make sense since Kayla has telepathy and Emma (X-O) has the diamond skin.
7. Wolverine's Adamantium Claws Grow Back: Magneto would probably give him his metal claws back because he would need them to fight Sentinels; we see in the 70’s portion of DOFP, Wolverine can fight Sentinels with the bone claws, but it is hard for him. Also in X-2 Magneto remarks that he is one of 2 people that can manipulate adamantium
8. Wolverine's X-Rays: In the comics, Wolverine’s healing factor made a molecular change in the adamantium that resulted in admantium beta which functions like true adamantium, but does not inhibit the bone’s normal processes, so supposedly it heals as well if it was ever damaged (Which isn’t an issue since it seems more durable then the film version metal) which doesn’t make sense at all really. Wolverine even regrows his entire body with adamantium and all at one point (I’m not talking about the Marvel Civil War where he is reduced to a skeleton). It could be that the film version has adamantium beta as well, but it takes longer from the adamantium to “heal”. The whole metal “healing” is silly though, since his body treated it as a foreign substance and without his healing factor he has to take special drugs to combat the metal poisoning.
9. Magneto Didn't Help Build Cerebro: This is a big one. Since it has been revealed that Magneto has been imprisoned under the Pentagon for the JFK assassination which happened on November 22, 1963, and First Class ends in 1962. So, there is less than a year that Magneto could have helped Xavier build his Cerebro in the mansion, but Magneto helping Xavier build seems unlikely with the dialogue in DOFP.
10. Wolverine's Amnesia Timeline: Unless Xavier is just awful at reading Wolverine’s mind through his adamantium skull, this is an issue.
11. There Are Two Bolivar Trasks: This is like the Emma Frost thing, in the ORIGINAL timeline Mystique kills Trask, so I am not sure who that is in X-3. It can be viewed as a plot hole though.
12. Beast Invented the Mutant Cure: Beast did not invent a “cure”, it merely temporally suppressed powers if taken in large doses. This is explicitly said by Beast to Logan about Xavier using too much to suppress his powers. We also see Beast use a lot of it to fool the Sentinel into thinking he was human. In X-3 Beast is no longer hiding his blue form and could simply be surprised that someone find a way to completely suppress mutant powers, however we know now that the cure was not permanent.
13. There Are Two Sabretooths: Victor could have either mutated further naturally or due to Magneto or William Stryker. Magneto has a machine to turn humans into mutants, I’m sure he could have made one to increase mutant powers. The further mutation could have affected his memories. Also, Toad appears to be more mutated in X-1 than he was in DOFP.
14. Professor X’s age: This is a plot hole, the only way I can explain it is that Beast perfected his serum since Xavier is walking AND using his powers, but maybe a side effect could have been Xavier aged rapidly to a certain point kind of like how Beast become blue in First Class.
15. Wolverine Is Not Unique: Yes he is, he has the only one naturally to be able to survive the adamantium bonding process until Lady Deathstike that is which Strkyer points out in X-2. We see in Origins that Sabertooth, according to Styker, could not survive the process (which could have been the motivation to side Magneto if he could enhance his powers). In X-O, Stkyer also need Wolverine’s DNA for Deadpool.
16. When Professor X Met Magneto: This one was covered well in the link.
17. Kitty Pryde's New Powers: All I’m going to say is I wish this was explained, it could have been so simple to say she developed it has a side effect of her original powers.
18. Mystique's Age: Personally, I hate the plot point of a character losing their anti-aging power and then their age catches up with them. That basically means the whole time they are not actually healing age related damage but covering it up. They did it in The Wolverine and X-1 with Wolverine and it annoyed me because it doesn’t make sense.
19. Mystique's Powers: I think her shifting abilities only allow the Sentinels to use other powers that have been pooled from mutants. We see one that absorbs Colossus’s metal skin (Rogue), one with diamond skin (Emma Frost), and one using clawed fingers (could be Sabertooth or Lady Deathstrike).
20. Wolverine's Mind Doesn't Heal: Yes it does, in the comics Wolverine’s amnesia is partially due to his mind covering up tragic events to keep him mentally stable. As, I covered earlier he has regained some of this memory in the films which really isn’t a representation to his mind “healing”, but still.

I'm going to enjoy the movie regardless of point holes just as I enjoy The Avengers movies despite their mistakes, but some "plot holes" are just things that are not fully touched on in the films and I'm fine with that I don't need every plot point spoon fed to me.
Also, since Marvel gets money from the X-Men films reducing the popularity of the characters will only further hurt them, but as I stated earlier X-1, X-2, and X-O are the only ones to have toy lines anyway that I am aware of.

Cripes I missed all this... plotholes o' plenty.

 

[wolfman10]

JD Yeah, there are quite a few, but I usually give films the benefit of the doubt, if I didn't I would not enjoy anything. haha Some of those plot holes don't take everything in account though.
BTW I just looked up what "tl;dr" meant and wow, I shouldn't have wasted my time. Your response makes more sense now. :lol

 

[comonbub]

@wolfman10 - tl;dr - I was obviously making a point. I accept that there are plenty of 'leaps of faith' and gaps that don't always need to be filled in for most movies.

DOFP was a pretty solid solid.

tldr...Xavier explains it to kitty pryde, it's not just in the end scene. Plot hole filled.
You're talking about a gap of time between 73 and X1 that could have had many thiings happen just because you didn't see it and remember, we still have AOA to answer that so you don't have to use your imagination. Plot hole filled.

 

[JD]

@JD Yeah, there are quite a few, but I usually give films the benefit of the doubt, if I didn't I would not enjoy anything. haha Some of those plot holes don't take everything in account though.
BTW I just looked up what "tl;dr" meant and wow, I shouldn't have wasted my time. Your response makes more sense now. :lol

I won't lie - I did a quick read/glance through a lot of your post after I posted. But, simply... I just don't care enough about this movie series to get into the minutia of it all (despite my rantings, most of which were found with help).

I hated the first three X-films... but, loved First Class. I liked DFOP for the most part... my initial comments were more directed at those delusional among us that feel there were no plot holes in this movie. There were plenty of plot holes, continuity errors and things that just don't make sense in this movie - that doesn't necessarily make it a bad movie - you can love a movie despite its flaws.

 

[JD]

tldr...Xavier explains it to kitty pryde, it's not just in the end scene. Plot hole filled.
You're talking about a gap of time between 73 and X1 that could have had many thiings happen just because you didn't see it and remember, we still have AOA to answer that so you don't have to use your imagination. Plot hole filled.

:facepalm

No. Just no.

#1. Your post has no context, I have no idea what you're referring to or why you're quoting me.
#2. Your use or English and grammar makes it impossible to understand your post.
#3. Um, this movie is full of plot holes, inconsistencies and things that just don't make sense. No one expects this kind of movie to have the perfect, solid story.... it's okay.
#4. Blindly "protecting" this movie or challenging people about it without facts to back it up is just silly. Enjoy the movie and move on.

 

[wolfman10]

JD You're right on there being plot holes and we can still enjoy them. I was just referring to the whole me posting "Trust me, I see your point" and then you responding with " I was obviously making a point. " No harm done, I was just confused originally and knowing what that means cleared that up.

Anyway, back on topic this really isn't a hole, but in X-1 Xavier talks about meeting Magneto when they were young to Logan then he jumps to him becoming Magneto and them going their separate ways, he doesn't say how old they were though (So that kind of fits with First Class). Then they are seen working together in X-3 when recruiting Jean, so is it a strech that they parted ways in FC, kind of united in DOFP for a brief while, and then united again before X-1? They also unite in the DOFP future It seems like they have a on and again off again friendship, but that was the way it was in the comics so I guess it is fair enough. Anyway I just noticed that in re-watching some of them.

 

[JD]

Doesn't Xavier say Scott and Jean are his first students in X1?

 

[wolfman10]

Doesn't Xavier say Scott and Jean are his first students in X1?

He says they were some of his first students, so it is fair enough because First Class (set in 1962) shows us his first students and then we see in DOFP that most of the students and teachers were fighting in the Vietnam war and the US got involved in 1961, so he probably didn't have his First Class long. Until, DOFP filled in that time period I always thought it was a plot hole as well. There are reports that Scott, Jean, and Storm will be in Apocalypse, so they are technically his second group from what I can gather.
It is a great question though, I thought the same thing after First Class.

 

[comonbub]

Doesn't Xavier say Scott and Jean are his first students in X1?

Played the movie for that part and he says "Some" of his first students. See that's what I mean, if FC was directed by Singer, it wouldn't have ruined the continuity as much as it did with the other movies.

 

[wolfman10]

It is almost like some of Xavier's dialogue in X-1 was written vaguely to avoid community errors later. He says that it has been "almost" fifteen years since Wolverine lost his memory as well. But then again Stkyer said something similar to Wolverine about it being 15 years in X-2.

The "plot hole" I love the most is Quicksilver's Walkman or how Trask has a pocket size mutant detecting device, I mean we didn't have giant robots in the 70's either. The historical events might be similar, but the technology is always more advanced in almost every superhero/action movie. I find it humorous that people point that out.

The biggest plot hole is William Stryker his age is constantly changing and hardly anyone notices that one. Almost everything else can kind of be explained away. Even in DOFP, we are shown flashbacks of Styker (Brian Cox), so did the Strkyer (Josh Helman) age rapidly in between 1973 to 1979 (timeline explained in X-O) or about 1990 (timeline in X-1 and X-2, since X-1 is set in 2005 and we subtract 15 years)? I guess his aging is more believable with it being like the timeline in X-1. Also, notice in the timeline the event thing it takes into account from X-Men:Origins: Wolverine is Wolverine's birth in 1832.

 

[CutThumb]

Look, I can understand the intense fandom surrounding how the X universe operates, but it isn't our world, its a comicbook version where mutation has arisen to give certain individuals unusual (and quite often totally unbelivable powers).And thats it. If you want to see real inconsistency then just read every X men writers differing version of how THEY THINK the X men stories should have happened over the last fifty odd years, and there are some VERY alternate historie lines that make the differences being quoted here look like very small beans indeed. Thing is ,if you enjoy the comics, you learn to accept that, and you'll have your favorite writers and those you don't like so much but each effort is pretty much an alternate look at that universe through a new generation of writers eyes and most people live with that. Or they would go mad.
I hoped DOFP would be as good as I thought the trailers suggested it might be. First Class was a great reboot, I really enjoyed X1,X2 and parts of X3 but felt the series was running out of ideas, it was certainly looking an older and exhausted effort to keep up with the rest of the Marvel franchises, certainly after the Wolverine movies. But I've got to say DOFP knocked the ball out of the park on nearly every level and what they managed to do with the storyline in order to overwrite nearly everything that has happened and to allow the new timeline to evolve without it being an absolute mega disaster was a huge plus for me. Hell ,I had one of the biggest lumps in my throat for ages when I saw how they brought Jean back followed by a laugh when Scott trotted out his line. And ,after witnessing the brutal deaths of nearly all the future X men just prior to that, at an emotionally level it did extremely well for a plain old superhero film.
So overall this REALLY worked far better than nearly any of the comicbook stories has ever managed ,with great skill,in tying both the old and the new together and allowing a new future set of stories to evolve without any real conflict. And I really do have to applaud the writers and the director (and cast) for doing that. This, and Captain America: TWS show just how good and important a great screen play is in keeping the audience engaged with a franchise.

 

[JD]

I thought the film was solid - but far from the homerun The Winter Soldier or even X-Men First Class was. I wish they had they done a proper First Class sequel rather than worry about tying the First Class story to the X-Men 1-3 story was unnecessary and mostly a vanity move on Singer's part.

 

[AJTaliesen]

Just saw it. Loved it.

As for continuity errors between them...honestly didn't see anything glaring that wasn't already there prior to this movie, and some were made not as horrible by this movie.

Not sure I'm interpreting it the same though. For me, it seemed like the point was that because of this, the events in X1, 2, 3 didn't play out exactly the way they did in those movies.

 

[JLeezy23]

Continuity error between FC-X1: Charles in X1, "When I was 17, I met a young man named Eric Lensherr"
While First Class credits show Charles being 24. Which makes him and Mags pretty darn old in the dofp future lol