Survivor: Fans vs Favorites

[Art Andrews]

While yes, his strategy worked twice, it would only work on the clueless. Remember Russel played back to back. None of the other players had seen his first season. His strategy would have NEVER worked during his second term if anybody had seen his first season, and would certainly never work again, for him at least. That's why he gave up after the second time. He knew his game play was blown. Yes, someone may come along and do it again but they will have the advantage of their main strategy being unknown to their fellow contestants.. Even Boston Rob finally totally changed his game play in order to win (whether the producers helped him or not).

But that really isn't saying much and could be said of almost any contestant in any game of strategy. If you know your opponent's strategy, it is easier to defeat them. Chess, football, Halo... you name it. If you know the way someone is going to play, it will be much harder for them to beat you.

 

[Laspector]

My point exactly. This also why I don't think ANYONE should be allowed to play more than once.

On another note, what do you think the teaser of next season was about? I'm thinking "Blood is thicker than water". If somehow families are put into the game this could get really interesting. Obviously family members are going to try to stick together but at some point they will be having to vote each other off.

Oops, EDIT, didn't backtrack far enough to see this has already been discussed. Oh well, my guess is the family thing also.

 

[hankey01]

That's exactly what I was thinking Laspector. Family vs. Friends.

 

[The Wook]

While yes, his strategy worked twice, it would only work on the clueless. Remember Russel played back to back. None of the other players had seen his first season. His strategy would have NEVER worked during his second term if anybody had seen his first season, and would certainly never work again, for him at least. That's why he gave up after the second time. He knew his game play was blown. Yes, someone may come along and do it again but they will have the advantage of their main strategy being unknown to their fellow contestants.. Even Boston Rob finally totally changed his game play in order to win (whether the producers helped him or not).

I will NEVER be in the corner that says Russell was the greatest player, never ever.

Laspector, you should listen to Art, he really knows the score--Russell was the best player of all time.

As for the other Villains and Heroes on Russell's second season being "clueless" about him, I can't accept that excuse. It's true, they hadn't actually seen his first season, but they knew, just by the fact he was there, that his gameplay was worthy of being invited back for a second season, and that he was cast as a one of the game's greatest "villains". So they KNEW he was skilled and nasty! And yet, knowing all that, this savvy collection of the game's greatest All-Stars were still stunned into submission week after week after week, all season long by Russell's extraordinary ability to impose his will. Again, I suggest to anyone who doubts Russell's top ranking in the game's history, to remember the great Boston Rob, reduced to a hapless, pathetic figure, meandering around camp, alone, bewildered by his fate, helplessly awaiting his execution at the hands of Russell. This was one of several times watching Russell dominate others, where instead of rejoicing that my favorite player was going to last another week, I recall shuddering, thinking he was "so good it's scary", and I pitied his victims as Russell positioned them for slaughter.

I have a pretty big ego. But Russell was the first and only player in Survivor history I ever saw who made me think, "I don't know if I could beat him".

You mention above that Russell "gave up after the second time". That's not true. Russell played a third season, in which he and Boston Rob were put on different tribes of fans. Mariano was given a bunch of lemmings who embraced his experienced leadership, and Russell was given an angry mob of fans who were determined from day one to eliminate whichever returning star they got--in their case, Russell. Boston Rob, who won the season effortlessly--in part by employing strategies he learned from Russell (finding hidden Immunity Idols, etc.), and in part because of the group of lemmings he'd been given--had the class and honesty to admit during that season's Reunion show, that if the tribes he and Russell were put on at the beginning were switched, he would've been toast early in the game just like Russell was, and Russell could've led Rob's tribe to victory as Rob did.

Russell's first two seasons of Survivor were the two best television experiences I ever had. I have a lot of favorite shows from TV history--like MASH, Seinfeld, Hogan's Heroes, 24, Elementary, the new BSG--but never did I experience more enjoyment than watching Russell Hantz impose his will like no one I'd ever seen before, on television, or in life. He was a force of Nature, a man competing against children.

Virtually everything of consequence that happened during those two seasons, was the cause of one man, and one mind: Russell.

The Wook

 

[Guri]

Guri is thrilled that Art qualifies his posting content with how he thinks she'll respond. :lol

Guri does not like that people are STILL talking about Russell. :facepalm

But she can't help herself...


........

(Art will be shocked by this) I respect Russel's plotting and the bold, smart moves he made. Those who were just floating along do not play that aspect of the game as well and if that's all the game was, Russell would be the best player ever.

But it's not...

(Art will misunderstand this) I did not like the way Russell talked about people behind their backs, and sometimes to their face; he was mean and took the game personal and it was terrible to watch. When the other players picked up on what he was doing and he lost the OTHER aspect of the game (social), it felt like justice was served.

 

[The Wook]

(Art will be shocked by this) I respect Russel's plotting and the bold, smart moves he made. Those who were just floating along do not play that aspect of the game as well and if that's all the game was, Russell would be the best player ever.

I'm glad to hear you say this. I've not heard you compliment Russell before.

You agreed with me earlier in this thread, Julia, that the large majority of the insults Russell had for others were spoken by him in confessionals, not to their faces. Sure, on an occasion or two he fired back at someone to their face who was insulting him, but he most certainly did not make a practice of antagonizing people to their faces. So I don't think many of the people he voted off the island ever knew the disdain he had for them. This, in fact, was one of the secrets of his extraordinary success. He keep his feelings and cards close to his chest, and ONLY brought into the loop those whom he needed to vote with him. His remarkable control of his emotions, and his ability to stay detached, viewing the game as mere X's and O's, is one of the reasons he was so crafty--and one of his most admirable traits, IMO. You say he made the game "personal". I say he viewed everyone like a piece on a chess board, and with a detached, single-minded focus, he systematically cleared the board of threats.

I can certainly understand you don't like bullies, and you don't like people demeaning others, regardless of whether or not it's to their faces. And I totally get it that you do not like Russell one bit, even though you respect all of his "plotting and the bold, smart moves he made". But would you, if you were on that first season jury, have voted for Natalie, arguably the greatest example of a do-nothing coattail rider the game has ever seen? Would you have given her the million dollars over Russell, who changed the way the game would be played forever, finding Hidden Immunity Idols without clues, and maneuvering his way from a minority outcast position, to completely taking over the game?

I would like to think you would've held your nose and voted for Russell. Maybe ripped him a new one in the final TC, but still vote for him. If you tell me you would've rewarded Natalie's game over his, I will respect your position. But I'd like to know how you think you would really have voted. And if you say Natalie, I'm curious if it is a no-brainer for you, or if you'd wrestle in your mind over who played the best game and should be sole survivor.

The Wook

 

[Guri]

You say he made the game "personal". I say he viewed everyone like a piece on a chess board, and with a detached, single-minded focus, he systematically cleared the board of threats.

We will just have to disagree on this.

But would you, if you were on that first season jury, have voted for Natalie, arguably the greatest example of a do-nothing coattail rider the game has ever seen? Would you have given her the million dollars over Russell, who changed the way the game would be played forever, finding Hidden Immunity Idols without clues, and maneuvering his way from a minority outcast position, to completely taking over the game?

I would like to think you would've held your nose and voted for Russell. Maybe ripped him a new one in the final TC, but still vote for him. If you tell me you would've rewarded Natalie's game over his, I will respect your position. But I'd like to know how you think you would really have voted. And if you say Natalie, I'm curious if it is a no-brainer for you, or if you'd wrestle in your mind over who played the best game and should be sole survivor.

The Wook

I have no idea what I would have done... I was not there on the island and it's been so long since I watched that season that I can't even guess at this point.

 

[Feraud]

I say he viewed everyone like a piece on a chess board, and with a detached, single-minded focus, he systematically cleared the board of threats.

Much like a chess game Russell has a good opening and middle game but no end game. The bottom line is he never won a game and you'd call him a game changing Grandmaster? Sorry but I do not see it.

Saying he was dealt an unfair hand with regards to his castmates, or jury, how so-and-so played in other seasons are not valid justifications to call him the greatest player ever. You are dealt the contestants and play your game. We cannot mix-and-match contestants, jury members, what Boston Rob did in his game, did Sandra deserve to win, etc. and basically makes excuses for why he lost.

If Russell was such an conscious driving force who dominated and controlled the game, why didn't it occur to him to craft a winning end game? Because as good as Russell is (I agree he has strong points) he is totally oblivious to his faults. I don't believe Russell could ever win Survivor. He despises the players and the game itself. He's good tv, but not the best player ever.

 

[TJackFx]

The bottom line is he never won a game

Just because you win the game, it does not make you a great (or even good for that matter) player.

 

[Feraud]

No it does not. Having won is a necessary "point" in one's favor when trying to classify someone as the greatest ever.

We can discuss worthy winners and losers all day. There is the idea being floated that Russell is The Greatest Player Ever. There are a lot of factors that go into playing a game. Sportsmanship is another feature. Russell has no respect for fellow players and the game itself. Lose a point there..

 

[The Wook]

We will just have to disagree on this.



I have no idea what I would have done... I was not there on the island and it's been so long since I watched that season that I can't even guess at this point.

So you're telling me there's a chance you would've voted for Russell. That's good enough for me.

Changing topics, hey, what do you think about the possibility of family members playing either with or against each other next season? I'm not so sure that's a good idea. I mean, I think the risk of family members striking a deal privately to split the money or whatever is too great. Ya don't really worry about that with strangers who meet up on the island for the first time, but with family members playing, I'd worry about it, that it could compromise the integrity of the game.

The Wook

 

[Guri]

I think they would have to make splitting the money part of the game, if they put family members on there together. Otherwise you could destroy a family pretty easily. Then it wouldn't be is blood thicker than water, but is money worth more than blood. Nobody wants to see that...

 

[The Wook]

I think they would have to make splitting the money part of the game, if they put family members on there together. Otherwise you could destroy a family pretty easily. Then it wouldn't be is blood thicker than water, but is money worth more than blood. Nobody wants to see that...

You must be right, but I still don't know how Burnett's gonna set it up.

I'm hoping for a whole new cast of fans--I've had my fill of favorites for a while. (And that includes not wanting Russell to return. I hope he never plays again. He's got nothing left to prove, in my eyes. However, I'd like seeing his brother on the show. The brother, who is Brandon's uncle, and who visited Brandon on the island during Brandon's first season. The dude looked intense. lol)

The Wook

 

[TJackFx]

You must be right, but I still don't know how Burnett's gonna set it up.

I'm hoping for a whole new cast of fans--I've had my fill of favorites for a while. (And that includes not wanting Russell to return. I hope he never plays again. He's got nothing left to prove, in my eyes. However, I'd like seeing his brother on the show. The brother, who is Brandon's uncle, and who visited Brandon on the island during Brandon's first season. The dude looked intense. lol)

The Wook

If I remember correctly it was Brandon's dad (Shawn), not his uncle who visited him on his first season (south pacific). His uncle (Willie) was the guy who played on Big Brother before he was removed for threatening another player.

What I'm hoping to see in the next season is 20 brand new players with 2 tribes of 10. Each tribe will consist of one of the family members until the merge (assuming there is one). To make it more interesting, each person believes that they are the only one with a family member on the other tribe and think they have the upper hand by having a mole on both sides.

 

[Feraud]

Possibly start out with family members grouped in tribes then go individual at a merge? This may test the familial bond until the game becomes a more individual one.

 

[Guri]

Seems like a lot of people are complaining and Jeff is getting touchy...

https://twitter.com/JeffProbst

Ok, I listened patiently, heard yr complaints. S26 is officially done. S27 will be next. Can't wait to hear what you'll hate about that one!

I see your tweets.I want u to feel heard. It's basically the same few -bad live show, non jury unhappy, fire Probst. Any other topics?

 

[TJackFx]

I suppose we should probably start a different thread to talk about it, but since it's been discussed here already...

I have heard that the blood vs water will have 10 returning players along with a family member each - how the tribes are going to be split, I don't know. I was also told that Jeff mentioned somewhere that the plan is to bring back (the worst idea ever) redemption island. Not sure if it's for the B vs W season or one after that.

 

[Guri]

Not sure anyone still cares, but I did a bit more digging and found out more about the live show...

According to Russell's twitter on May 9th, Phillip told Jeff he was too afraid of Brandon, so that is why Brandon was not on the live show. Looks like Russell went to find Phillip to street fight him, at least he claims it...

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 9 May I'm in LA and looking for the streetfighter Phillip! I would tweet to him but don't know his twitter name someone...CBS can't stop me bitch

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 9 May You stopped Brandon from going but guess what you can't stop me!! @JeffProbst That's what's wonderful about this country lol

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 9 Mayguess what I already talked to an LA attorney to make sure he gets me out of jail ASAP when I bust his Ass!! #Let'sseewho'sthestreetfighter

on May 11th he says that CBS tried to get 2 psychologists to call him...

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 11 May Did CBS really try 2 get the psychiatrist 2 call me!Listen guys I'm completely normal my feelings are completely normal!It's a respect thing

He then says he thinks he's too interesting to get banned.

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 11 May @BobbyG6279 @jeffprobst probst Will never block me! I'm too interesting

Later it looks like they did just that:

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 12 May Wow @BostonRob @HatchRichard there! I'm band from the show with my pic up for security!Talk bout disrespect!try 2 get me 2 play @JeffProbst

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 12 May I seriously feel like I'm the step child !! Maybe I'll find the glass slipper mother****er then u can't do anything about it @JeffProbst

Then there's this:

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 12 May Jeff prescription of the next survivor show!!? Water and blood !? I already know you figure it out!???

Russell Hantz ‏@russellhantz 12 May:They're lucky if I decide to grace them with my presence @Survivor_Tweet @JeffProbst #Survivor

So, if you take all of that with what Malcolm said about them hiding something, then maybe they had the pre-jury survivors in the audience in order to hide that Brandon was banned and not embarrass Phillip because it was by his request.

Seems like reality show drama might be better behind the camera!

As for Russell in regard to the above tweets is, who he is speaks for himself and my opinion of who he was on the game is only validated by who he is off the game. And if it was all for show, I doubt he would be banned, they would be milking it. This is who/what he is. What he did on Survivor is not a game for him, its his way of life.

 

[Feraud]

As if we needed any more proof of what a degenerate sore loser Russell is... I wish Philip would slap that pipsqueak chump!

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

As most expected, Blood vs. Water will indeed pit family members against each other. Looks like it's going to be returning players and their families:

Joss Whedon, Gillian Anderson and Jeff Probst on the InsideTV Podcast | Inside TV | EW.com