Studio Scale AT AT With Full Animation Armature
- Thread starter Big C
- Start date
Big C
Active Member
I think a few pounds. I'm curious about this too. Am away from the shop today. I'll hook up a scale tomorrow.How hard do you have to push on the spring for that part to go up and down
Big C
Active Member
Two pounds.How hard do you have to push on the spring for that part to go up and down
Big C
Active Member
Thanks!!
joberg
Legendary Member
That's a lot of pressure to exert on those feet to make them work. Maybe a slimmer spring would do the trick
I know that many vehicles had foam suspensions (the oldest trick in the book) Now that we have memory foam (the recoil is slower with it)...just an idea.
Big C
Active Member
I think the "suspension" may operate differently on a stop motion armature. My current theory (I've never done stop motion so who knows) is that the springs should be really stiff so the model weight alone never actually compresses them. The original models had a quick release pin that (I think) attached to the inside top of the foot. The other end of the quick release pin passed through either a slot in a plywood board or a metal grate that the model was "walking" on. The pin also had wingnut that could be adjusted to pull the pin and foot down giving the look of a compressing suspension. This way, the animator would have total control over how the "suspension" was behaving.That's a lot of pressure to exert on those feet to make them work. Maybe a slimmer spring would do the trick
Big C
Active Member
If anyone is interested, here is Phil Tippett talking about the pop pins (I called them quick release pins) and how they were used.
Text excerpt is from Cinefex issue 5.
I also found an image online (Sorry, I don't remember from where) showing Phil animating the walker on a board with slots that would have been used with the pins.
Text excerpt is from Cinefex issue 5.
I also found an image online (Sorry, I don't remember from where) showing Phil animating the walker on a board with slots that would have been used with the pins.
Last edited:
joberg
Legendary Member
Yes, those ball lock pins were used for easing the animation and making sure the model were solidly affixed to the table/surface while the animators were moving the different parts of said model.
My main concern is how, in real life, those suspensions would work.
1: The vehicle has a "weight" when standing on its 4 legs. The stance/suspension should be lower since the whole is standing on those feet.
2: The suspension should also have a finite travel inside the feet; if not, the assembly (on top of the second part of the foot) moving it from left to right/ forward-backward would grind on the top of the flat surface of the second part.
3: As soon as any foot is lifted off the ground, the suspension should be released of any weight, making the overall look of the foot higher and fully deployed.
It's a little bit like the Space 1999 Eagle: lots of model maker are weighing the model to make sure that the shocks are in their proper position when the whole weight of the ship is on them.
My main concern is how, in real life, those suspensions would work.
1: The vehicle has a "weight" when standing on its 4 legs. The stance/suspension should be lower since the whole is standing on those feet.
2: The suspension should also have a finite travel inside the feet; if not, the assembly (on top of the second part of the foot) moving it from left to right/ forward-backward would grind on the top of the flat surface of the second part.
3: As soon as any foot is lifted off the ground, the suspension should be released of any weight, making the overall look of the foot higher and fully deployed.
It's a little bit like the Space 1999 Eagle: lots of model maker are weighing the model to make sure that the shocks are in their proper position when the whole weight of the ship is on them.
Big C
Active Member
Thanks joberg. This is really interesting to me. And.. I'm not sure we are talking about exactly the same thing. Or maybe we are lol!Yes, those ball lock pins were used for easing the animation and making sure the model were solidly affixed to the table/surface while the animators were moving the different parts of said model.
My main concern is how, in real life, those suspensions would work.
1: The vehicle has a "weight" when standing on its 4 legs. The stance/suspension should be lower since the whole is standing on those feet.
2: The suspension should also have a finite travel inside the feet; if not, the assembly (on top of the second part of the foot) moving it from left to right/ forward-backward would grind on the top of the flat surface of the second part.
3: As soon as any foot is lifted off the ground, the suspension should be released of any weight, making the overall look of the foot higher and fully deployed.
It's a little bit like the Space 1999 Eagle: lots of model maker are weighing the model to make sure that the shocks are in their proper position when the whole weight of the ship is on them.
So I was thinking the suspension would be something the animator would manually move frame by frame along with the rest of the model. I think you are suggesting that the suspension would happen automatically as the model was animated. The only reason I was thinking it was manually animated is the difficulty in getting the exact right spring force for the suspension to function predictably. But I really don't know for sure.
joberg
Legendary Member
Yes; you're right about the suspensions animated on a frame-by-frame basis. I was just wondering if, lets say, I build your model, what kind of weight, shoved in the upper body, would I need to have a proper stance. And, to a certain extend, if the legs would support such pressure...either over time or at the time of the construction.
TazMan2000
Master Member
Real nice bit of re-imagineering and mechanical design.
TazMan2000
TazMan2000
JediMichael
Master Member
So totally incredible. It really makes you appreciate everything they did on Empire even more.
When these guys put in so much work, and a movie flops, I can only imagine the feeling of loss.....but all these guys, what an insane amount of accomplishment at how great the scene looks, and Empire is known as the best Star Wars movie, here over 40 years later.
I still marvel at it.
Probably why its one of, if not my MOST favorite Star Wars vehicle....and why I own 11 of them.
Keep it up, as this build is off to a great start.
When these guys put in so much work, and a movie flops, I can only imagine the feeling of loss.....but all these guys, what an insane amount of accomplishment at how great the scene looks, and Empire is known as the best Star Wars movie, here over 40 years later.
I still marvel at it.
Probably why its one of, if not my MOST favorite Star Wars vehicle....and why I own 11 of them.
Keep it up, as this build is off to a great start.
Big C
Active Member
Been on vacation for the last week and a half so there's been a pause in shop work. Fortunately I had my laptop and wi-fi the whole time so I did a complete 2nd pass on the leg CAD for the full size model (many small things were glaring at me) and got the body and head armature designed. I mean, what else would I do on vacation anyway?
Renders show how it's all going to look. Body and head armature design are derived from photos. I have a photo showing the first neck joint next to the body. The rest are a guess but it's all designed to allow the same head motions as in the movie.
Time to order aluminum!
Renders show how it's all going to look. Body and head armature design are derived from photos. I have a photo showing the first neck joint next to the body. The rest are a guess but it's all designed to allow the same head motions as in the movie.
Time to order aluminum!
Bjorn
Sr Member
joberg, that's one of my favorite sayings!Yep, go big or go home as they say
C, I love your practical workings and planning behind what you are doing here.
Very much looking forward to seeing when aluminum shavings appear!
Big C
Active Member
Thanks Ogibendogy! And thanks everyone for all the encouragement and support. I really appreciate it.
And... The aluminum order is in. No insignificant thing! I ordered enough material for the body, neck and head armatures and six legs. Four for the final model, one that will remain unpainted so it can be handled (to feel the weight and see how the mechanisms work). Extra for various holding fixtures and a 6th leg to screw up. Screwing up is not actually the plan but it always seems to happen anyway lol.
Here is the order for y'all's viewing pleasure
FEET
Toe mount and sloped foot ring: 3 3/4" diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
Toes: 2" x 5/16" x 48" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Ring mount: 1 1/2" diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
Foot top and Upper leg disc: 2 1/4" diameter x 18" long 6061 rod.
Foot ring: 1/2" x 3" x 24" long 6061 T6511 bar.
LEGS
Lower leg: 3/8" x 2" x 36" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Upper leg: 3/8" x 2 1/4" x 48" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Shoulder: 1/4" x 2 1/2" x 36" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Shoulder disc and Shoulder mount: 1 5/8 diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
BODY AND HEAD
Leg body mount plate: 5/8" x 4" x 12" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Body armature spreader rods: 1/4" diameter x 24" long 6061 rod.
Body and head armature sides: .100" thick x 12" x 18" 6061 T6 sheet.
Neck armature: 1/2" x 1/2" x 12" long 6061 T6511 bar.
And... The aluminum order is in. No insignificant thing! I ordered enough material for the body, neck and head armatures and six legs. Four for the final model, one that will remain unpainted so it can be handled (to feel the weight and see how the mechanisms work). Extra for various holding fixtures and a 6th leg to screw up. Screwing up is not actually the plan but it always seems to happen anyway lol.
Here is the order for y'all's viewing pleasure
FEET
Toe mount and sloped foot ring: 3 3/4" diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
Toes: 2" x 5/16" x 48" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Ring mount: 1 1/2" diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
Foot top and Upper leg disc: 2 1/4" diameter x 18" long 6061 rod.
Foot ring: 1/2" x 3" x 24" long 6061 T6511 bar.
LEGS
Lower leg: 3/8" x 2" x 36" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Upper leg: 3/8" x 2 1/4" x 48" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Shoulder: 1/4" x 2 1/2" x 36" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Shoulder disc and Shoulder mount: 1 5/8 diameter x 12" long 6061 rod.
BODY AND HEAD
Leg body mount plate: 5/8" x 4" x 12" long 6061 T6511 bar.
Body armature spreader rods: 1/4" diameter x 24" long 6061 rod.
Body and head armature sides: .100" thick x 12" x 18" 6061 T6 sheet.
Neck armature: 1/2" x 1/2" x 12" long 6061 T6511 bar.
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