Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think many just felt the Jedi in the Prequels were just too powerful. too omnipresent... but I think that was the point... they got so big, so powerful, so complacent and so arrogant that it was easy and the right time for a Sith to swoop in and turn the galaxy against them... he even was able to get them to turn against each other in a way since the jedi had mistrust of Anakin and Anakin was tricked into believing the jedi were turning against him and holding him back... The Sith planted the seed and it didn't take much for the jedi to pretty much destroy themselves. One really has to look at the prequels as a story about the jedi and their failure and fall from grace...

That's absolutely true...the overall theme was Anakin's fall from grace, but it was also about what you said and how a Republic becomes an Empire.  There was actually a lot covered in the PT and maybe it wasn't handled as well as it could have been (like Anakin's whiplash-inducing turn from troubled kid to evil *******) but I enjoyed them well enough and i have no doubt Ep VII will be fantastic.

She can talk about all the movies and games she wants, but I'll be danged if I accept her as a good part of them.

Bad voice acting, character pretty much exists solely for indulgence and the thought that BioWare actually put effort into replicating her face over creating an in-game face for Tali. Oooo, you were definitely one of the problems Jess.

What?! You don't like something? I am shocked!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Perhaps I was a little too blunt with my statement. I don't think there should be NO Jedi or Sith at all in the new installments, since they are a vital and (I hate this word, but I'll use it here) iconic part of the Star Wars universe.
What I was more specifically referring to is a more intense focus on "smaller" characters who give us a more balanced view of the population of the galaxy.
This is one of the aspects in which I feel the OT dominated the PT. In the original films we had a central Jedi character, sure. But he was complimented by a large cast of down-to-earth supporting characters. Smugglers, bounty hunters, pilots, politicians, freedom fighters, mechanics and navigators, these were all the real heroes.
But most of all, they helped to illustrate the power of the Jedi. This is kind of ironic since the Jedi in the OT were wimps compared to what we see in the PT, but yet they still appear more impactful simply because we actually see them in contrast to their "normal" colleagues. A lack of "human" characters for comparison makes the Jedi self-contained and therefore gives us no basis to judge their importance on. When you have a movie that is just Jedi, Jedi, Jedi, you kind of forget that normal people actually exist in the universe. Bail Organa had a ton of potential in ROTS, and he had some cool interactions with the main characters, but for the most part his character was squandered.
I'm still pissed off about that deleted scene in ROTS with the meeting of the Rebellion founders. I think that was one of the best scenes in the film for a lot of reasons, taken out why? Probably because there were no Jedi in it.

It probably goes without saying that our main protagonist in the OT was also more interesting to us since we got to actually see him progress and develop, and become a new breed of special, unknown hero in his universe. Even when he WAS a Jedi he really didn't show it - I doubt most anyone at all in the Rebel Alliance knew about it apart from the weird thing on his belt - he didn't go flaunting it to the Rebel leaders as an indicator of power. He was an unknown hero.
In the PT, we really didn't have much of that progression - partially because the character development was just lacking from a filmmaking point of view, but MOSTLY because we already KNEW where this character was headed, and therefore we never really invested a lot of time into Anakin from the beginning. This is one way in which I think the 4-5-6 1-2-3 formula shot itself in the foot. Ultimately we knew exactly where Episode III was going to lead us, so it was almost like, why even bother? It was just filler at that point.
But apart from that, Anakin also just wasn't that special in his environment. Unlike Luke, he didn't have a chance to carve out a unique destiny and become a new special hero.
The whole "chosen one" plot just still seems very shoed-in to me; it's like they had to come up with ways throughout the films to keep reminding us that Anakin was special for some reason, even though that reason was never really explained or showcased, we were just told it constantly. In a lot of ways I think it would have been more effective if Anakin had been a completely unknown character all along, and when he turned into Vader he was able to do so because he was so unexpected and unknown. Making him a famous Jedi war hero works in the context of the films as they exist, but I'm just thinking in "what if"s...
Anakin really never had a chance to be unique. He was surrounded by other heroes just like him, so why exactly was he special? Well, because he was the chosen one of course...

On a somewhat different note...the original trilogy (most directly in ANH) portrays the Jedi way as something very different than we see in the prequels. Luke's introduction to the Jedi Knights is very mystical, very mysterious, and although we never directly get a lot of details from the films, it's implied to us that the Jedi were more of a fringe group of peacekeepers, mysterious Knights who made infrequent appearances when needed and belonged to a strange religion with shrouded motives. The term "Knight" itself even gives us a different view, as it tends to conjure images of the Crusaders during the Holy Wars - and for all intents and purposes that's actually a pretty fair description of what we are given in the OT.

The prequels gave us a very different take on things. Instead of these wise, dark-aged crusaders who wielded longswords and kept peace through distant means, we instead had some sort of pacifist monks who occasionally flipped around with laser bats and were involved heavily in central galactic politics for some reason. And not only that, but their ways were open to pretty much everyone (Padme seems to have a very intimate understanding of the Jedi Order, for example, even before her relationship with Anakin). I find it hard to believe that in the short twenty years between ROTS and ANH, the Jedi were forgotten. They practically ran the entire galaxy with their presence beforehand. Okay, Palpatine destroyed records, burned the temple etc. Whatever, I'll buy that. But I'm fairly certain that there were a LOT of people who still remembered what Jedi were, from seeing them crawling all over the core worlds, a mere twenty years before.
Aaron Carter ain't around anymore either, but I sure as heck remember seeing him all over the place.
To be fair, Bib Fortuna seems to be remotely aware of the Jedi by the time of ROTJ, but Jabba's circles were typically pretty well-versed in the occult anyway.

All that to say...Jedi and the Force is good for Ep. VII, but do it in limitation, and do it in the spirit of the OT.
Basically, what I'm asking for...is to bring back the mysticism of the Jedi legend. I think we can all pretty much agree on that.

Sorry guys. It's late and I've been drinking, and now I'm thinking about Star Wars. :facepalm
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

seriously? then you haven't eaten real spaghetti :D Its a very important ingredient in it.. .you must add it to your sauce man!!!
Here is a wiki note: (which is highly related to Star Wars since Han smuggled spices! :D )

Oregano's most prominent modern use is as the staple herb of Italian-American cuisine. Its popularity in the US began when soldiers returning from World War II brought back with them a taste for the “pizza herb”, which had probably been eaten in southern Italy for centuries. There, it is most frequently used with roasted, fried or grilled vegetables, meat and fish. Unlike most Italian herbs, oregano combines well with spicy foods, which are popular in southern Italy. It is less commonly used in the north of the country, asmarjoram generally is preferred.
oregano??? :wacko
<--- NEVER had spaghetti with oregano

That is just weird. :lol
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

On a somewhat different note...the original trilogy (most directly in ANH) portrays the Jedi way as something very different than we see in the prequels. Luke's introduction to the Jedi Knights is very mystical, very mysterious, and although we never directly get a lot of details from the films, it's implied to us that the Jedi were more of a fringe group of peacekeepers, mysterious Knights who made infrequent appearances when needed and belonged to a strange religion with shrouded motives. The term "Knight" itself even gives us a different view, as it tends to conjure images of the Crusaders during the Holy Wars - and for all intents and purposes that's actually a pretty fair description of what we are given in the OT.

The prequels gave us a very different take on things. Instead of these wise, dark-aged crusaders who wielded longswords and kept peace through distant means, we instead had some sort of pacifist monks who occasionally flipped around with laser bats and were involved heavily in central galactic politics for some reason. And not only that, but their ways were open to pretty much everyone (Padme seems to have a very intimate understanding of the Jedi Order, for example, even before her relationship with Anakin). I find it hard to believe that in the short twenty years between ROTS and ANH, the Jedi were forgotten. They practically ran the entire galaxy with their presence beforehand. Okay, Palpatine destroyed records, burned the temple etc. Whatever, I'll buy that. But I'm fairly certain that there were a LOT of people who still remembered what Jedi were, from seeing them crawling all over the core worlds, a mere twenty years before.
Aaron Carter ain't around anymore either, but I sure as heck remember seeing him all over the place.
To be fair, Bib Fortuna seems to be remotely aware of the Jedi by the time of ROTJ, but Jabba's circles were typically pretty well-versed in the occult anyway.


Basically, what I'm asking for...is to bring back the mysticism of the Jedi legend. I think we can all pretty much agree on that.

yes, when I was a kid I envisioned the Jedi Knights as a small limited group like the knights of Camelot meeting at the round table ... called upon when in dire need.. not a large police force. so with that point of view I have to agree that the idea of the jedi I think got out of hand for the prequels... The Jedi temple should have been much smaller, in a remote location and every senate office on Corruscant needed a red jedi phone with one button! :D
The Jedi should have been a much rarer breed and I think Attack of the Clones should have already had Anakin as a full Jedi Knight, not on the council but still a much loved, revered and trusted Jedi looked up to by all Jedi... a likable guy but with an edge that gave a slight bit of annoyance and pause to the Jedi Council... reckless is he! More like Qui Gon in how he didn't really care about being a part of the council or going along with the gang.. he was more of a loner and seeking his own view on the idea of the force but willing to do his duty when called upon. Since the Jedi were purged from the galaxy save Luke and potentially Leia or any offspring I do hope E7 has only a handful of Jedi ever... not a legion of them.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't waste my life playing video games.

If you've got time to waste, it's not wasted time.

Lutso said:
The whole "chosen one" plot just still seems very shoed-in to me; it's like they had to come up with ways throughout the films to keep reminding us that Anakin was special for some reason, even though that reason was never really explained or showcased, we were just told it constantly. In a lot of ways I think it would have been more effective if Anakin had been a completely unknown character all along, and when he turned into Vader he was able to do so because he was so unexpected and unknown. Making him a famous Jedi war hero works in the context of the films as they exist, but I'm just thinking in "what if"s...

To say that the prophecy is shoed-in is a massive understatement since it still manages to be inconsistent even with how little we're told about it. We're told in Episode One that the Chosen One is meant to bring balance to the Force. How? We're never told. In Episode Three, we're told that the Chosen One is destined to DESTROY THE SITH and bring balance to the Force. Wait a second. Destroy the Sith? That was part of the prophecy the whole time? Rewind to Episode One. Qui-Gon tells the council that the Sith have returned, and that he's found someone who might be the Chosen One... the person who is meant to destroy the Sith. Coincidence? The Jedi seem to think so since no one connects the dots.

I just look the whole mess as Lucas' attempt to solidify the idea that Anakin is the main character of the series. When you watch the OT, he doesn't want you to see it as Luke's story. It's Anakin's. Same can be said for Boba Fett. When you look at him, he doesn't want you to see hims as his own thing, he wants you to see Jango Fett, the character Lucas created in the PT.

I guess now that Anakin is dead he won't be bothering to steal the spotlight in these newer films. That's my hope at least.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

We're told in Episode One that the Chosen One is meant to bring balance to the Force. How? We're never told. In Episode Three, we're told that the Chosen One is destined to DESTROY THE SITH and bring balance to the Force. Wait a second. Destroy the Sith? That was part of the prophecy the whole time? Rewind to Episode One. Qui-Gon tells the council that the Sith have returned, and that he's found someone who might be the Chosen One... the person who is meant to destroy the Sith. Coincidence? The Jedi seem to think so since no one connects the dots.

I think it was just that the Jedi interpreted "bring balance to the Force" as "Destroy the Sith", not that it was specifically stated in the prophecy. At least that's what I took from it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Didn't mace also state that maybe we ( jedi ) miss understood the prophecy in the 3rd one? I see that the prophecy was correct, it was just not good for the Jedi. You could say that palatine did bring balance or it was vader. Since crap settled down and everyone was on the same page. Ok, rebels but that's a given since there will always be rebels.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think it was just that the Jedi interpreted "bring balance to the Force" as "Destroy the Sith", not that it was specifically stated in the prophecy. At least that's what I took from it.

And it provided the necessary conflict within the story. I think efforts to read too much into it is a fools errand, every film since ANH has been "making it up as we go" for the most part based only tenuously on what GL originally wrote down. He crafted the story on the fly.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

seriously? then you haven't eaten real spaghetti :D Its a very important ingredient in it.. .you must add it to your sauce man!!!
Here is a wiki note: (which is highly related to Star Wars since Han smuggled spices! :D )

Oregano's most prominent modern use is as the staple herb of Italian-American cuisine. Its popularity in the US began when soldiers returning from World War II brought back with them a taste for the “pizza herb”, which had probably been eaten in southern Italy for centuries. There, it is most frequently used with roasted, fried or grilled vegetables, meat and fish. Unlike most Italian herbs, oregano combines well with spicy foods, which are popular in southern Italy. It is less commonly used in the north of the country, asmarjoram generally is preferred.

Just might try it out then :p

Maybe Hayden Christensen will appear as a force ghost again.

:facepalm

No frakking way
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Maybe Hayden Christensen will appear as a force ghost again.

Jedi1.jpg
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think it was just that the Jedi interpreted "bring balance to the Force" as "Destroy the Sith", not that it was specifically stated in the prophecy. At least that's what I took from it.

Because when it comes to a group of people who hold their "Guardians of Peace and Justice" title so sacred and hate the dark side so much, obviously bringing balance to something means the complete and total destruction of a group of people... and they have absolutely zero problems with that.

Consider this point. Obi-Wan clearly states twice in ROTS that he believes Anakin is supposed to "Destroy the Sith". With that in mind, if Obi-Wan was not knocked out during the battle with Dooku in the film's opening and Anakin managed to still disarm him, would Obi-Wan be the one telling Anakin to kill Dooku? He does consider Dooku as a bona fide Sith and, once again, believes bringing balance to the Force means the destruction of the Sith. Doesn't sound too out of character when you recall the moment where Obi-Wan expresses his disappointed in Luke for not wanting to kill his own father. Even the Jedi brush off Dooku's demise and don't even bother asking Anakin what transpired. As far as the Jedi are concerned, Anakin was doing his part in killing the people that the prophecy said needed killing. These aren't Guardians of Peace and Justice, they're glorified assassins.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

yes, when I was a kid I envisioned the Jedi Knights as a small limited group like the knights of Camelot meeting at the round table ... called upon when in dire need.. not a large police force. so with that point of view I have to agree that the idea of the jedi I think got out of hand for the prequels... The Jedi temple should have been much smaller, in a remote location and every senate office on Corruscant needed a red jedi phone with one button! :D

Well you were a kid. Obi Wan tells us in the movie that for generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice. A handful of people couldn't do that. Heck when Lucas said that at the time of the Prequels there are about 10,000 Jedi, I thought that was too few. You also missed a point of the movie. The Jedi were supposed to do kind of what you said, only they are sent to negotiate situations and be more like a judge than only police. The point of Darth Sidious' plan was to cause so much unrest that the only thing the Republic could do is send Jedi out everywhere. When more are put out there they are more likely to get killed. He was thinning the herd and Order 66 finished the ones left after the civil unrest and Clone Wars.

You have to remember that you're dealing with thousands of planets and cultures. It makes sense to have one respected body that pretty much everyone will respect the authority of if representatives are sent to mediate or negotiate.




To say that the prophecy is shoed-in is a massive understatement since it still manages to be inconsistent even with how little we're told about it. We're told in Episode One that the Chosen One is meant to bring balance to the Force. How? We're never told. In Episode Three, we're told that the Chosen One is destined to DESTROY THE SITH and bring balance to the Force. Wait a second. Destroy the Sith? That was part of the prophecy the whole time? Rewind to Episode One. Qui-Gon tells the council that the Sith have returned, and that he's found someone who might be the Chosen One... the person who is meant to destroy the Sith. Coincidence? The Jedi seem to think so since no one connects the dots.

I still don't know why the prophecy thing is such a big mystery. It was obvious to me. The fact that the Dark Side is becoming more powerful, that the Sith's power is rising is what makes the Force out of balance. Lucas confirmed that. For some reason a lot of people took balance too literal like it's a ying and a yang thing. The Dark Sides kills while the Light Side preserves life, so it makes sense that the Force, which is created by life, is out of balance if the Dark Side is too powerful.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I still don't know why the prophecy thing is such a big mystery. It was obvious to me. The fact that the Dark Side is becoming more powerful, that the Sith's power is rising is what makes the Force out of balance. Lucas confirmed that. For some reason a lot of people took balance too literal like it's a ying and a yang thing.

The way the prophecy was introduced in Episode One made it sound like the Force was already out of balance for a long time, a time which every single Jedi believed the Sith have long been extinct. Considering that there are no Jedi alive who lived in that era where there were Sith (Even Yoda is too young for that), How do the Jedi even know what the Force being balanced is like if it's been like this the whole time? If the Sith are the cause of it, why wasn't the issue of the Force being out of balance ever established when the Sith actually existed a thousand years ago? There is nothing about this prophecy that makes it clear that anything bad is happening to the Jedi's ability to use the Force since Obi-Wan and Yoda can still use their powers with ease decades after the Sith have been in control.

And when you factor in the whole "Dark Side of the Force" thing, the prophecy makes even less sense. Despite the Jedi believing that the Sith were truly gone, they still act as though the lure of the Dark Side is so strong that they had to implement these insanely strict rules in order to prevent other Jedi from ever being tempted by it. So what good is going to come from killing the Sith if the Dark Side is still going to be there, ready to tempt you at the slightest instance of showing a negative emotion? It's like saying if you kill all the Nazis, there will be no more acts of genocide ever.

The Dark Sides kills while the Light Side preserves life, so it makes sense that the Force, which is created by life, is out of balance if the Dark Side is too powerful.

Uh, didn't ROTS imply that Darth Plaguis/Palpatine used the Dark Side of the Force to create life? That's kind of the opposite of killing.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Not sure it counts if there was a specific, evil purpose for doing it.

Iirc (and I might be mistaken) in the novel "Darth Plagueis" it is explained that it was Plagueis' tampering with midichlorians during his experiments in search of eternal life which "backlashed", the Force creating Anakin (unknown to Plagueis) somewhere in the Galaxy in order to restore a sort of balance. Palpatine found this out eventually and wanted to take advantage of this.
In what way this would be related to the Prophecy (which is higher canon than even GL-approved novels) eludes me.
Who made the prophecy and when? We're never told. On the other hand, Anakin did restore the balance in a way, by killing Palps at the end of ROTJ, sacrificing himself along the way.
As somebody pointed out, a lot of SW is made up on the fly (no matter if GL claimed otherwise), and loose ends sometimes remain.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 
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