KrangPrime
Master Member
Huh...where have I seen that Plot point of draining the sun of substance and fire for energy somewhere before? 
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release) (Spoilers)
- Thread starter OldKen
- Start date
Where is he hiding? At an ancient Jedi Temple, if not the FIRST jedi temple. That sounds more like trying to find a solution for a huge problem than going into hiding.
The larger story arch needed that. Or did you want another PT that starts at the absolute beginning of the overall story? The strongpoint of ANH and the OT was that GL threw us right into the mess, without any exposition. No knowledge of what happened before. Did Obi Wan Kenobi also "de evolve" in your opinion? TFA imo is something like a "third act", everything is set to zero again and the heroes need to catch their breath and get second wind. But on a larger scale than in just one movie.
Where in the Prequels TPM instantly felt like some kind of prologue and not like a real story, TFA again threw us into a new, larger, even a tad darker world than we were left in with ROTJ.
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KrangPrime
Master Member
I don't see it as a tad darker. but then again, we've been so spoiled by dark stories over the years, i'm getting kind of bored by them.
and jumping into a story is exactly what the PT did. only difference there was we KNEW most of the main characters going in. same thing with TFA.
the reason we had no knowledge of what happened before in ANH was because, well, it was ALL NEW. they told you exactly what you needed to know in the crawl, and that was it. they only had two hours.
here, in TFA, it's not all new. it's an exact copy of ANH, right down to where the characters where when they started. as a fan who's been seeing the characters grow in the books (albeit with some very bad stories setting them back along the way), I wanted to see luke as the head of a new jedi order on coruscant. I wanted to see han and lea in a marriage and seeing how they've learned to work together(seeing lea take over as co pilot as chewbacca died was one of the only good things coming out of that). I've wanted to see luke working with a bunch of jedi knights he trained, with little bits of history thrown in.
Maybe if I hadn't read the books, TFA would have been a little more rewarding, but since I had, it just felt like a huge step backward in character development. we missed all the developing exposition.
and jumping into a story is exactly what the PT did. only difference there was we KNEW most of the main characters going in. same thing with TFA.
the reason we had no knowledge of what happened before in ANH was because, well, it was ALL NEW. they told you exactly what you needed to know in the crawl, and that was it. they only had two hours.
here, in TFA, it's not all new. it's an exact copy of ANH, right down to where the characters where when they started. as a fan who's been seeing the characters grow in the books (albeit with some very bad stories setting them back along the way), I wanted to see luke as the head of a new jedi order on coruscant. I wanted to see han and lea in a marriage and seeing how they've learned to work together(seeing lea take over as co pilot as chewbacca died was one of the only good things coming out of that). I've wanted to see luke working with a bunch of jedi knights he trained, with little bits of history thrown in.
Maybe if I hadn't read the books, TFA would have been a little more rewarding, but since I had, it just felt like a huge step backward in character development. we missed all the developing exposition.
Not darker than ANH? Or not "just a tad" darker?
Yes, TPM did jump into "A" story. Trade route conflict as a background, yes. But the story of how Anakin became Darth Vader starts just shortly after his conception, I would say. Which really dragged things out and IMO is one of the greatest mistakes. The same goes for the Clone Wars. The Clone Wars that we heard of and were all so eager to see only started in AOTC and were explained from the beginning. So what was important, Anakins character development or the Clone Wars? They are of course connected, but IMO did not have to be as closely tied together than they were.
Hardly, maybe a few outlines and everybody expected something different. I personally had an image of Obi Wan Kenobi for the PT that was based on a drawing in one of those old Marvel comics, a Jedi dressed like Luke in ROTJ, hanging around a bar. That image is still very clear in my mind, but I can´t point the finger on the comic where I lifted that from.
That´s true, but the point being...?
The plot may be similar, but the story is completely new. The old characters may have resumed their roles, but we do not know yet how they fill them, since the last 30 years are not known to the movie audience.
For someone who has no knowledge of Star Wars it may not make that much a difference. For a fan ...
And that is the problem. You "as a fan" can´t be satisfied because there are millions of fans out there that may or may not share your wishes. And you almost had your wish! Until Kylo Ren happened ...
Yup, there you have it
But I am sure that we are going to get some of that exposition, but not as "on the nose" in the movies as if Uncle George still had say in making them.
The thing about TPM is that it was supposed to be Episode one. The one film that shouldn't throw us into the middle of things, the one that had no cliffhanger to pick up after. This was the one that should have established the setting and then gotten the story rolling.
--Jonah
--Jonah
KrangPrime
Master Member
yep, I agree with that. they started way too young with anakin. he should have been a jedi already. they could have told his story in quick force flashbacks and been done with it. I guess they really wanted to surprise the audience with a young obi wan kenobi first. but that kind of made the prequels obi wans story as much as anakin.
The thing that the clone wars series fixed, is they made anakin likable. and because they had more time, you could really get to like him as a flawed hero. the movies wasted that opportunity by starting him off as a kid. by the time the clone wars came along, it was the end of the second movie. and we never saw anakins downfall. by the time it happened in episode 3, it wasn't really 'yeah, Ican see him doing this...' it was more 'what did we miss? he's just coming off as a whiny spoiled brat with mommy issues'.
you could argue that lucas knew where he was going to wind up... with episode 3 being the darkest of all, and he wanted episode 1 to be light hear ted for a reason, but I doubt they planned that far ahead.
And the Force Awakens story is hardly new. they lifted 50% of it from the books, and 50% from ANH. the latter beat for beat. The former, Han has a son, son is turned, son kills loved family member, son will probably die a sith when it's all done. the latter: BB8 gains message. escapes into dessert. escapes desert in same ship as ANH. goes to cantina. does rescue on death star. war room scene. death star battle. end celebration.
it's so similar, I probably didn't even really need to avoid spoilers for this whole time.
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Well, if we're talking fixing the Prequels, we can start with that they're supposed to be Obi-Wan's story. Anakin was just supposed to be a supporting character. So that part I can't agree with you on. *heh*
--Jonah
--Jonah
It was said Rey was left there on Jakku at age 5, she is 19 in TFA according to the TFA visual dictionary. Kylo is said to be about 10 years old than Rey. So I am making assumptions than the slaughter of Luke's academy happened around 14 years prior to TFA, Kylo would have been a teenager around 15 years old.
this is what i want to find out, the exact age differences
That's the dumb part. So Luke never tried to train anyone since then?!? I really really hope that Luke actually does have some Jedi that Kylo doesn't know about. That's what reinforces the view that Disney told them to make ANH because they reset Luke to be a solitary Jedi like Obi Wan in ANH. I think someone said "The Prequels had a bunch of Jedi! That must be why some people didn't like them! We can't show Luke having new Jedi!" I could maybe buy the fact that Luke was seeking out some knowledge or something, but for what? Stop Kylo Ren? A little whiny brat who has a temper? Snookie or WTH his name is? C'mon! If that guy's big plan is to have Kylo Ren defeat Luke, he's no Darth Sidious.
I've kinda made up my own theory, probably will never come true but i keep thinking why oh why would luke leave his own daughter on a desert planet in the hands of a jerk junk dealer... you dont know unkar plutt could be some kind of rapist or something..
my theory is luke was out of a secret jedi mission... possibly with Lor San Tekka?? anyway while he's out on his mission the knights of rend decide this is the time to make the purge. with the leader away they can sweep clean all the young jedi.. likes wife/girlfriend/mother of his child may have over heard this plan? or had a force vision (i believe reys mother will also be a super force sensitive) and she decides to hide rey just incase this purge is true. while she hides rey the purge happens, she cannot contact luke because he's on his secret mission and when she returns home is ambushed and killed... now rey has been hidden and luke doesn't know where she is.. he may even think she's dead.. reys mother will never return to jakku to get her because she is now dead.. leaving rey abandon...
thats what i keep telling myself to make myself feel more comfortable about the whole abandonment on jakku... if we learn in episode 8, luke dropped her off there i will totally be pulled out of the film... i can't see his character doing that
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Could be. I kinda like the theory that Kylo Ren couldn't bring himself to kill his powerful sister/cousin/friend/whatever, wiped her mind and dumped her on Jakku to be forgotten. Out of sight, out of mind. Might explain why he was so bothered when he was informed by the officer that a girl was also on board the Falcon. The only way I can really accept Luke/Han/Leia abandoned her there is if they arranged for old family friend Lor San Tekka to surreptitiously keep an eye on her from a distance, even as she lived a hardscrabble life.
oh ho! i like that theory... maybe the light side was talking to him at the time... and if that theory is true it sure makes the scene in TFA where Ren is using the force on reys mind and they are pushing each other back and forth much more in depth... maybe he learns rey is the girl he dropped off?!
Oh my God, your still carrying on with this, Jason?! I told you months and months ago to accept that Luke in TFA was not going to have other Jedi running around and the Temple and all the EU trappings and you refused to accept it. Now that everything I told you has come to pass you still struggle with this. Listen, we don't know what the circumstances were regarding Luke's efforts to train new Jedi and we don't know what or who the Knights of Ren are and how they with Ben destroyed Luke's New Order. But we will, it's part of this new Saga and we have only seen part One. Let the story be told and forget the EU Luke. We have a far more interesting Luke to learn about.
KrangPrime
Master Member
I don't even think they thought that far. My crazy theory is I think Rebels was a testing ground to see how well people reacted to episode 4 nostalgia, and when that seemed to be a big hit, they went full on for episode 7...and they where probably planning a little of that already by that point.
star wars at this point is more made by commitee. at least until they feel they safley got their investment back. maybe once that time passes, they will take a little more risk in the story telling department. Rebels is no Clone Wars series, that's for sure.
jkno
Legendary Member
A bit off topic but still nice:
Behind the Scenes of a Star Wars TFA Portrait Shoot for TIME Magazine
Behind the Scenes of a Star Wars TFA Portrait Shoot for TIME Magazine
astroboy
Master Member
Over the past few days I watched the entire mandalore/maul arc. God I love that so much. I can't believe how low-budget rebels feels compared to the clone wars
KrangPrime
Master Member
that's a good way to put it.
but another way is nothing really HAPPENS in rebels that makes you want to rewatch the episodes again. the characters are kind of one note.....they don't get to do much except run around and swing a lightsaber. it's just...something is missing that made clone wars so much better than the prequel movies.
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