Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

After thinking a lot about Rey and her being a possible Skywalker or Kenobi. Here is my take. If Rey is a Kenobi, it is a beautiful piece of symmetry at the end of TFA. Follow me around the room here... In ANH Luke is offered the Skywalker Graflex from Ben, he is reluctant at first and then embraces his hero journey and the events of the OT unfold. Fast forward to the end of TFA and we find Luke a broken man who is trying to run from his destiny. He is then presented with the exact same lightsaber again by Rey...a Kenobi. The look on his face tells it all... The last time he accepted that saber led him to where he is. Now he must decide what to do with his destiny.
 
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I understand and don't mean to imply the same viciousness of hateing a movie to a person but same time can't think of any other comparison that makes sense . I guess for PC reasons I Will delete the post to try to keep the peace.

Also was not trying to be insulting but understand I suppose.
as I " feel insulted" by others when they talk about how if you like the prequels at all you are obviously an idiot . and you opinions are therefore nill and void and you should never be heard from again. But as that is a popular view it is never challenged.

See why I can't find another comparison that makes sense.?

Hey, I love the Prequels. And I will also edit my quote post above.
 
Was not talking about any one person in particular but the fact that mention of the prequels gets a we dont discuss that they means nothing and in no way are even remotely related to star wars kind of response.
 
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Was not talking about any one person in particular but the fact that mention of the prequels gets a we dont discuss that they means nothing and in no way are even remotely related to star wars kind of response.

I used to be a lot more like that. Discovering the Clone Wars cartoon really softened my attitude on the Prequels. I still wish the story had been different, but I'm also at a point where I just kinda ignore them for the most part. I have plenty of criticisms about them...but, you know, the franchise is moving on. There's really no need to dwell on it.


The Plagueis thing, however, is just so obscure that I don't see any real benefit in using it at all. It's really just fan service, and not even all that great fan service. But that whole rumor has been pretty much shot down, so, no real need to dwell on it, either.


I'll be honest here. For a very long time, I was very conflicted about Star Wars. I loved the OT, hated the PT, and it seemed like the franchise just wasn't doing anything I was interested in. Over time, my attitude softened, but also the Disney sale happened, and the new films were announced. I was cautiously optimistic, but didn't get my hopes up. After seeing TFA, the whole thing feels familiar and new all at once to me. There's still the OT, and I treasure that, and I can take or leave the PT and bits of it, but on the whole, I'm just...glad to have the franchise moving forward.

I'm sure some of my vehemence about the prequels and such was also rooted in where I was in life, what was going on for me, etc. I'm married now, I have a kid on the way, and while I still think the PT is generally not that well done...honestly...life's too short and there's too much other great stuff to be enjoyed to waste your time being perpetually pissed off at a movie.

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Sharing this bit of awesomeness that Daisy Ridley accomplished:

http://thenerdybird.com/watch-daisy-ridley-deadlift-176-pounds/

Props to her getting into the best physical shape that she can! Also, it's nice seeing her doing weight and not the Yoga or Pilates.

Good form, too! :thumbsup
 
The only thing that would bug me about that is that throughout the entire OT that means there was another Kenobi running around somewhere and Ben/Yoda weren't trying to get that Kenobi to help them out? Help Luke out? Do anything?

I've thought about this, and what I'm coming up with makes me chuckle. What if Kasdan is bringing back a story point that was altered in the forshortening of the last four intended films into ROTJ as delivered. The other Yoda referred to was meant to be Luke's sister, but Luke's sister wasn't meant to be Leia. She was going to be revealed to have been being trained somewhere far away simultaneous with Luke on Dagobah.

Now... That obviously got altered during the writing of ROTJ, but what if? What if the other was Kenobi's daughter, not necessarily being trained (else there would be a disturbance in the Force from it), but out there nonetheless. And Obi-Wan didn't know about her when Yoda said that. Can be fudged many ways. Maybe Yoda told him after Luke left, and Obi-Wan was lying to Luke when he said the other was Luke's sister. He's lied to Luke before, and Leia doesn't seem to be anywhere near as strong with the Force. That might also let us retcon in the cut line in that exchange that's in the novelization about Owen being Obi-Wan's brother. Just another layer of obfuscation, for whatever reason hiding that Owen was Anakin's step-brother.

So if, after ROTJ, Obi-Wan came to Luke again and said "hey, sorry, I knew they'd be able to pick up your thoughts and we needed to keep her safe". And Luke went looking and they hit it off and boom. Maybe, if she was Satine's daughter, Bo-Katan would've taken her in and kept her safe in the backwaters of the Mandalore Sector...

All speculation, but it could happen.

And I still think Finn is either a Sloane or a Leonis.

--Jonah
 
Solo4114 The Plagueis thing said:
While being obscure is kind of true I guess and having no benefit is subjective.

My point was and is all the afore mentioned evidence leads that direction.
will it actually go in that direction who knows?

The way GL used musical Que's you would think.
but maybe Disney is using them for misdirection or just liked that piece of music and put it in there .
And as for the rumor being shot down .
Again we have been bald faced lied to so many times it is impossible to say .

Since it is not set in stone either way as of yet.
I would not be surprised if Disney is not paying attention to all the diffrent theorys and will go with what they deem will make the most people happy and put the most butts in seats.
Although I was surprised they had no cool new ship to make into a toy and sell . so maybe they are actually letting the writers do there own thing.


And I kind of missed not having a cool completely different ship to see that was one of the things I loved about the prequels. Along with the quick background shot of the falcon in ROTS presumably with lando at the helm
Although I understand why both the Resistance (ohh I wanna call em rebel's soooo bad )
And first order have the same or very similar ships as the OT I think they missed a great opportunity with both Leia's troop ship and especially the ship Finn was going to hitch a ride to the outer rim on.

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Ahh I messed up the quoty thing lol
 
The reason I want Snoke to be Plagueis is because they went out of their way to distance themselves from the prequels with TFA that it almost leaves those of us who liked them (or me, at least) with a sense of "you don't matter because those who didn't like/hated them are so much louder and more numerous." It would be nice for them to acknowledge that we're out here in a major way, and I don't think its too much to ask for. And since Plagueis was such an almost thrown-away mention in RotS, it would go a long way to bridge the gap, so to speak, without being overt about it. Those of us who care about the PT will instantly recognize and appreciate the reference and those who didn't or don't remember will be none the wiser.

As for Rey, yea, I want her to be either an Organa-Solo or a Skywalker. To change the saga films from the Skywalker story to the random characters story after 6 films would be "doofy" (to steal another poster's word; sorry, but I don't remember who right now). If, however, in the end, Ren turns good and the story becomes his moving forward, I would accept her as a random force-user.
 
The reason I want Snoke to be Plagueis is because they went out
of their way to distance themselves from the prequels with TFA that it almost leaves those of us who liked them (or me, at least) with a sense of "you don't matter because those who didn't like/hated them are so much louder and more numerous." It would be nice for them to acknowledge that we're out here in a major way, and I don't think its too much to ask for. And since Plagueis was such an almost thrown-away mention in RotS, it would go a long way to bridge the gap, so to speak, without being overt about it. Those of us who care about the PT will instantly recognize and appreciate the reference and those who didn't or don't remember will be none the wiser.

As for Rey, yea, I want her to be either an Organa-Solo or a Skywalker. To change the saga films from the Skywalker story to the random characters story after 6 films would be "doofy" (to steal another poster's word; sorry, but I don't remember who right now). If, however, in the end, Ren turns good and the story becomes his moving forward, I would accept her as a random force-user.

I was opposed to the easy answer of her being a Skywalker but when I think about it it has ALWAYS been the Skywalker story .
And Luke never had the " no woman" dogma fed to him as far as we know either. They just need to come up with a good reason he abandon her there on Jakku .
Him being somehow stranded at the Jedi temple would go a long way in forgiving both his leaving of her and leaving the fight completely. As both would have been ment to be temporary while he retrieved what ever it was he was looking for at the first Jedi temple.

It would be cool if snoke followed him there and in there fight snoke got his wounds and Luke lost his ship .
Although it has not been brought up in a while here is My opinion on Luke's all metal hand I seem to remember him being shot in the hand in the beginning off ROTJ and putting a glove back on the partially skinned hand so in my opinion he probably never got it fixed . Anakin just wore a glove and gauntlet to cover his .
 
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While being obscure is kind of true I guess and having no benefit is subjective.

My point was and is all the afore mentioned evidence leads that direction.
will it actually go in that direction who knows?

The way GL used musical Que's you would think.
but maybe Disney is using them for misdirection or just liked that piece of music and put it in there .
And as for the rumor being shot down .
Again we have been bald faced lied to so many times it is impossible to say .

Since it is not set in stone either way as of yet.
I would not be surprised if Disney is not paying attention to all the diffrent theorys and will go with what they deem will make the most people happy and put the most butts in seats.
Although I was surprised they had no cool new ship to make into a toy and sell . so maybe they are actually letting the writers do there own thing.


And I kind of missed not having a cool completely different ship to see that was one of the things I loved about the prequels. Along with the quick background shot of the falcon in ROTS presumably with lando at the helm
Although I understand why both the Resistance (ohh I wanna call em rebel's soooo bad )
And first order have the same or very similar ships as the OT I think they missed a great opportunity with both Leia's troop ship and especially the ship Finn was going to hitch a ride to the outer rim on.

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Ahh I messed up the quoty thing lol

JJ's Khan misdirection has been acknowledged by the man himself as a mistake. Also, JJ isn't solely in control of the story narrative of this trilogy, a lot of people are making those decisions. Disney had no reason to lie or to use Pablo as a proxy to lie on Twitter. Same with Larry Kasdan and Andy Serkis. There is no massive conspiracy wherein all these folks are trying to obfuscate the truth. The multiple comments about Snoke being a new character should be taken at face value.

in regards to the music cue rabbit hole, GW wrote that likely to be evoquative of evil as opposed to trying to mimic the opera music from ROTS. I'd bet $100 JW has no idea who Plagueis is. So yes, I feel very sure it's not him based on the actual evidence.
 
The reason I want Snoke to be Plagueis is because they went out of their way to distance themselves from the prequels with TFA that it almost leaves those of us who liked them (or me, at least) with a sense of "you don't matter because those who didn't like/hated them are so much louder and more numerous." It would be nice for them to acknowledge that we're out here in a major way, and I don't think its too much to ask for. And since Plagueis was such an almost thrown-away mention in RotS, it would go a long way to bridge the gap, so to speak, without being overt about it. Those of us who care about the PT will instantly recognize and appreciate the reference and those who didn't or don't remember will be none the wiser.

As for Rey, yea, I want her to be either an Organa-Solo or a Skywalker. To change the saga films from the Skywalker story to the random characters story after 6 films would be "doofy" (to steal another poster's word; sorry, but I don't remember who right now). If, however, in the end, Ren turns good and the story becomes his moving forward, I would accept her as a random force-user.

Just out if curiosity, exactly how does TFA disavow the events of the PT?
 
JJ's Khan
misdirection has been acknowledged by the man himself as a mistake. Also, JJ isn't solely in control of the story narrative of this trilogy, a lot of people are making those decisions. Disney had no reason to lie or to use Pablo as a proxy to lie on Twitter. Same with Larry Kasdan and Andy Serkis. There is no massive conspiracy wherein all these folks are trying to obfuscate the truth. The multiple comments about Snoke being a new character should be taken at face value.

in regards to the music cue rabbit hole, GW wrote that likely to be evoquative of evil as opposed to trying to mimic the opera music from ROTS. I'd bet $100 JW has no idea who Plagueis is. So yes, I feel very sure it's not him based on the actual evidence.

Not talking about JJ specifically but star wars has always had the cone of silence around it . we also have Daniel Creig saying why would he be in star wars and acting offended but there he is when questioned out right they have to lie it is written into there contract which by definition makes it as conspiracy .

SPOILER about hateful 8 don't continue if you care .don't know how to hide or I would

And it is not just star wars just recently we have had QT denying Channing Tatium's involvement in the hateful 8 and acting almost bewildered about why anyone would think that he was in the movie. that was to protect the secret that it there are 9 people in the cabin . a lie to protect his secret. And the list goes on and on
 
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Not talking about JJ specifically but star wars has always had the cone of silence around it . we also have Daniel Creig saying why would he be in star wars and acting offended but there he is when questioned out right they have to lie it is written into there contract which by definition makes it as conspiracy .

SPOILER about hateful 8 don't continue if you care .don't know how to hide or I would

And it is not just star wars just recently we have had QT denying Channing Tatium's involvement in the hateful 8 and acting almost bewildered about why anyone would think that he was in the movie. that was to protect the secret that it there are 9 people in the cabin .
a lie to protect his secret. And the list goes on and on

Like this.

[ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] but with no gaps.
 
I didn't say disavow, I said distance, there's a big difference. I just meant that aside from a passing mention of clones, we didn't get a single reference or nod to the PT era, whereas the movie was chock full of those things in OT. I get it, the timeframe of TFA is far removed from the PT, but you can't tell me that's the only reason.

Just as a note, it may sound like I'm dumping on TFA, but nothing can be further from the truth. I adored the movie as much as everything else SW.
 
I didn't say disavow, I said distance, there's a big difference. I just meant that aside from a passing mention of clones, we didn't get a single reference or nod to the PT era, whereas the movie was chock full of those things in OT. I get it, the timeframe of TFA is far removed from the PT, but you can't tell me that's the only reason.

Just as a note, it may sound like I'm dumping on TFA, but nothing can be further from the truth. I adored the movie as much as everything else SW.

I see, but the events of the PT were 60+ years previous to these events vs. the OT at 30, so story wise it makes sense. I just don't get the vibe watching the film that it's trying to distance itself from the PT.
 
Now if the five planets they had blown up were Naboo, Coruscant, Mustafa, Genosis and that one with the sinkholes, then maybe you would be onto something.
 
The reason I want Snoke to be Plagueis is because they went out of their way to distance themselves from the prequels with TFA that it almost leaves those of us who liked them (or me, at least) with a sense of "you don't matter because those who didn't like/hated them are so much louder and more numerous." It would be nice for them to acknowledge that we're out here in a major way, and I don't think its too much to ask for. And since Plagueis was such an almost thrown-away mention in RotS, it would go a long way to bridge the gap, so to speak, without being overt about it. Those of us who care about the PT will instantly recognize and appreciate the reference and those who didn't or don't remember will be none the wiser.

Uh...you've had, what, a solid 15 years of PT-focused stuff to tell you that you are valued. You have a six-season cartoon, plus the Tartakovsky cartoon, plus toys, video games, books, etc., all of which focus on the PT and PT era.

The PT is a mixed bag. Some people like it, others loathe it, and I'd bet that the bulk of casual audience members who saw it basically thought it was nothing special. Maybe they even thought it was kinda bad. Regardless, I don't think the PT fans need any special fan service to "acknowledge" them. You've been acknowledged. You were acknowledged for over a decade.

I don't get the sense that TFA was trying to crap on the PT aside, perhaps, from the "This will begin to make things right" comment that some people are interpreting as snark thrown at the PT (which I think is pretty unlikely).

If anything, I'd say the goal of TFA -- to the extent there is any goal with respect to the hardcore fans -- is to simply move beyond the rift created by the PT and make a movie that hopefully PT-fans and OT-fans can get behind equally (again, to the extent that there are distinct camps).

JJ's Khan misdirection has been acknowledged by the man himself as a mistake. Also, JJ isn't solely in control of the story narrative of this trilogy, a lot of people are making those decisions. Disney had no reason to lie or to use Pablo as a proxy to lie on Twitter. Same with Larry Kasdan and Andy Serkis. There is no massive conspiracy wherein all these folks are trying to obfuscate the truth. The multiple comments about Snoke being a new character should be taken at face value.

in regards to the music cue rabbit hole, GW wrote that likely to be evoquative of evil as opposed to trying to mimic the opera music from ROTS. I'd bet $100 JW has no idea who Plagueis is. So yes, I feel very sure it's not him based on the actual evidence.

Almost certainly. I know that, to us, it's common knowledge, but for most people who aren't hardcore fans (and that would include Williams, I suspect), the name Darth Plagueis is totally meaningless.

I see, but the events of the PT were 60+ years previous to these events vs. the OT at 30, so story wise it makes sense. I just don't get the vibe watching the film that it's trying to distance itself from the PT.

Yeah, me neither. And, as you say, story-wise, it makes a hell of a lot less sense to have some never-before-seen-but-briefly-referenced guy pop up as the big baddie in this new film, particularly when he is from before the Prequel era. Plagues -- if what Palpatine said was true -- existed at some time before Sidious took Darth Maul to be his apprentice, meaning it was at least 63 years before the events of TFA.


Otherwise, there's no need to reference the PT for purposes of telling the story that TFA tries to tell. You might as well complain that they are intentionally trying to distance themselves from Rebels, because nothing from that show appears in the new film, either.
 
Uh...you've had, what, a solid 15 years of PT-focused stuff to tell you that you are valued. You have a six-season cartoon, plus the Tartakovsky cartoon, plus toys, video games, books, etc., all of which focus on the PT and PT era.

Things all released before the Disney acquisition by the same guy who created and will defend the prequels to his death. And during that time, there was plenty of OT and beyond material being released beside them (EU that is, but it still counts). And I drank it all up.

I don't get the sense that TFA was trying to crap on the PT
Never said or implied that it was. "Distance from" and "crap on" are 2 completely different things.

(again, to the extent that there are distinct camps).
I don't believe there are. I daresay most if not all who liked the prequels also loved the OT, including myself.


story-wise, it makes a hell of a lot less sense to have some never-before-seen-but-briefly-referenced guy pop up as the big baddie in this new film, particularly when he is from before the Prequel era.
. Explained properly, it could make perfect sense. Besides, I've heard the TFA novelization says Snoke was born hundreds of years before then. (I will admit I haven't read it yet for myself, so that info could be wrong for all I know)

Otherwise, there's no need to reference the PT for purposes of telling the story that TFA tries to tell. You might as well complain that they are intentionally trying to distance themselves from Rebels, because nothing from that show appears in the new film, either.
Except that that show has a direct connection to the OT, so I would argue that referencing one, references the other.
 
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