Yup, thats about where id sling it now, its NOT studio scale, its all very pretty, but just stating the facts, its a very expensive blinky toy.
lee
QMX Enterprise?
- Thread starter Aquaman
- Start date
Yup, thats about where id sling it now, its NOT studio scale, its all very pretty, but just stating the facts, its a very expensive blinky toy.
lee
SD Studios
Well-Known Member
I don't like to bag on licensee's products as I (obviously) am kinda sensitive to this issue. So I will just state some clarifications as I have learned them. It IS the PL model. I was told by someone working on the project. So let's put that to rest. WHY do a whole new one if you have access to a very good kit? I would probably do the same thing.
When I did the P&Ls for QMx, there were EIGHTY other cost-line-items that get attached to each product, so the raw product cost is actually not the biggest factor in a P&L. So I understand the $5k price. I would never PAY it, but I understand it.
There are a ton of corrections that have to be done to the PL model to make it look like the filming model from TMP. A TON. I have been researching this project...collecting reference images, reading what others have done, talking to other modelers for opinions, for almost three years.
One guy documented the corrections here:
Polar Lights Enterprise Refit WIP 12
This is the most-thorough re-do on this model I have seen documented to-date and has been a God-send reference on my build. I would hug that guy if I could. But it is STILL not 100%. I have found more...
I am currently at about 70% completed on my model and I have been working on it (on and off) for two years. If I was building this for someone, I would have to charge $10,000 to $15,000 and it still wouldn't cover my time. Seriously.
I have almost completed all of the corrections that the gentleman above noted PLUS a bunch more he missed. When I get this done, I will probably have 400 to 500 hours into it. And I am sure I have missed some details...
This is a VERY hard model to get "right". You CANNOT replicate the paintjob on the original, so forget it. You can do a GREAT job and it will look very nice, but you can't match what the original guy did. If you don't believe me, head over to Hobbytalk and read the gazillion pages of documentation that folks have done on their models PLUS an interview with the artist man who painted the filming model. And then just CRY. :cry
The aztec changes wildly with lighting, angle, etc. It is NOT a set pattern. It is NOT what you think you see. It is different in every picture. I had no idea what was actually there until I spent a couple of hours reading the Hobbytalk forum threads. Wow. My head hurts.
I actually changed my plans after reading through those 50 pages of discussion. Very interesting. The best you can do is use the available decal sets and sorta-copy the look, OR use the Aztec dummy set and ditto. I have seen a few custom-paintjobs that are absolutely staggering, but STILL not exactly like the original.
So, what have I found?
-If you plan to do a full-tilt, balls-to-the-wall model of this ship, using the PL kit, you will need to spend about $600 to $700. JUST for parts.
- You can't replicate the lighting scheme as seen on-screen. Forget it. They used 50 dental mirrors and millions of dollars of lighting equipment to do the lighting. Doug T has an interview on the TMP deluxe DVD. Watch it and learn. Some folks have "faked" the "light blossoms" around the markings, by lighting the model from inside through the plastic. I have seen this effect in-person and I think this looks BAD up-close, so I am not doing it. That is just MY opinion. You can do what you like.
-You CANNOT make the model "accurate" if you don't use the aftermarket photo-etch set and resin upgrade parts. Some of the kit parts are just TOO off and some details are completely missing. Period.
-You will also need the Acreation decal set. You have to use a combination of BOTH the kit and aftermarket decal sets to get it accurate.
-The aztec colors on the Acreation decal set are much better than the PL decals (which are mono-tone) but are still too "intense". I knocked them down with a clear-white overspray and then will pick out specific areas with the airbrush once applied... and then pearl over-coats on top of that.
I am still going to apply about 20% of the aztecing by airbrush as neither decal set is "absolutely complete". And IMO, applying decals in some locations would look "goofy".
If you want the TMP model, the engineering section is GREEN. If you are doing the 1701-A, (or later) it is BLUE. I am trying to match the colors as accurately as I can. My biggest disagreement with some of the finished models I have seen (and the FX model) is that the colors are too "garish". The key here is "subtlety". The colors used on the 8-foot model MUST be toned down on the 3-footer. Or it will look like a toy. Sorry. eg; the bridge is NOT gold! It is platnium. It has a very subtle gold-tone. The blues used must be subtle as well. Lighten those colors people!!!
-If you are making the TMP model, do NOT use the current photos of the "A" for complete reference. It was changed a number of times. There are differences!
-Some people are mixing the movie models up. Do what you like I guess, but it drives me crazy! Don't put the A paintjob on the TMP model. Don't put the Trek 5 hangar in the TMP model!!! Insanity! :lol TWOK is a combination of a LOT of stock footage from TMP PLUS a re-worked, repainted, toned-down model, so that is a toughie to copy. Not worth the effort. It is a contradiction.
-I am up to about 170 LEDs and still going. Oy. I used the TREK modeler lighting kit PLUS Gerry Mros made me some custom boards. PLUS I rigged up some things myself. PLUS I am using fiber-optics for some of the teeny lights. This thing is HARD to do. It is the most difficult model I have wired up in my 35 years of model-making.
-The formation lights on the top/back of the saucer don't blink. That's why they are FORMATION LIGHTS. Stop making them blink. They are static in he movie, as they should be.
-There is NO WAY the FX guys could pad-print the models they are making. That is silly. They don't have millions of dollars of pad-printing equipment on-hand. They are using the kit decals. It just makes sense. It won't be completely accurate...but This is a semi-mass produced model. They CANNOT spend 400 hours on each one. They would go bankrupt.
For $5000, you will get a very nice model. It will not be super-accurate, but it WILL be nice.
It will be good-enough for most of the folks who will buy one.
For me...I am doing my own thing.
When I did the P&Ls for QMx, there were EIGHTY other cost-line-items that get attached to each product, so the raw product cost is actually not the biggest factor in a P&L. So I understand the $5k price. I would never PAY it, but I understand it.
There are a ton of corrections that have to be done to the PL model to make it look like the filming model from TMP. A TON. I have been researching this project...collecting reference images, reading what others have done, talking to other modelers for opinions, for almost three years.
One guy documented the corrections here:
Polar Lights Enterprise Refit WIP 12
This is the most-thorough re-do on this model I have seen documented to-date and has been a God-send reference on my build. I would hug that guy if I could. But it is STILL not 100%. I have found more...
I am currently at about 70% completed on my model and I have been working on it (on and off) for two years. If I was building this for someone, I would have to charge $10,000 to $15,000 and it still wouldn't cover my time. Seriously.
I have almost completed all of the corrections that the gentleman above noted PLUS a bunch more he missed. When I get this done, I will probably have 400 to 500 hours into it. And I am sure I have missed some details...
This is a VERY hard model to get "right". You CANNOT replicate the paintjob on the original, so forget it. You can do a GREAT job and it will look very nice, but you can't match what the original guy did. If you don't believe me, head over to Hobbytalk and read the gazillion pages of documentation that folks have done on their models PLUS an interview with the artist man who painted the filming model. And then just CRY. :cry
The aztec changes wildly with lighting, angle, etc. It is NOT a set pattern. It is NOT what you think you see. It is different in every picture. I had no idea what was actually there until I spent a couple of hours reading the Hobbytalk forum threads. Wow. My head hurts.
I actually changed my plans after reading through those 50 pages of discussion. Very interesting. The best you can do is use the available decal sets and sorta-copy the look, OR use the Aztec dummy set and ditto. I have seen a few custom-paintjobs that are absolutely staggering, but STILL not exactly like the original.
So, what have I found?
-If you plan to do a full-tilt, balls-to-the-wall model of this ship, using the PL kit, you will need to spend about $600 to $700. JUST for parts.
- You can't replicate the lighting scheme as seen on-screen. Forget it. They used 50 dental mirrors and millions of dollars of lighting equipment to do the lighting. Doug T has an interview on the TMP deluxe DVD. Watch it and learn. Some folks have "faked" the "light blossoms" around the markings, by lighting the model from inside through the plastic. I have seen this effect in-person and I think this looks BAD up-close, so I am not doing it. That is just MY opinion. You can do what you like.
-You CANNOT make the model "accurate" if you don't use the aftermarket photo-etch set and resin upgrade parts. Some of the kit parts are just TOO off and some details are completely missing. Period.
-You will also need the Acreation decal set. You have to use a combination of BOTH the kit and aftermarket decal sets to get it accurate.
-The aztec colors on the Acreation decal set are much better than the PL decals (which are mono-tone) but are still too "intense". I knocked them down with a clear-white overspray and then will pick out specific areas with the airbrush once applied... and then pearl over-coats on top of that.
I am still going to apply about 20% of the aztecing by airbrush as neither decal set is "absolutely complete". And IMO, applying decals in some locations would look "goofy".
If you want the TMP model, the engineering section is GREEN. If you are doing the 1701-A, (or later) it is BLUE. I am trying to match the colors as accurately as I can. My biggest disagreement with some of the finished models I have seen (and the FX model) is that the colors are too "garish". The key here is "subtlety". The colors used on the 8-foot model MUST be toned down on the 3-footer. Or it will look like a toy. Sorry. eg; the bridge is NOT gold! It is platnium. It has a very subtle gold-tone. The blues used must be subtle as well. Lighten those colors people!!!
-If you are making the TMP model, do NOT use the current photos of the "A" for complete reference. It was changed a number of times. There are differences!
-Some people are mixing the movie models up. Do what you like I guess, but it drives me crazy! Don't put the A paintjob on the TMP model. Don't put the Trek 5 hangar in the TMP model!!! Insanity! :lol TWOK is a combination of a LOT of stock footage from TMP PLUS a re-worked, repainted, toned-down model, so that is a toughie to copy. Not worth the effort. It is a contradiction.
-I am up to about 170 LEDs and still going. Oy. I used the TREK modeler lighting kit PLUS Gerry Mros made me some custom boards. PLUS I rigged up some things myself. PLUS I am using fiber-optics for some of the teeny lights. This thing is HARD to do. It is the most difficult model I have wired up in my 35 years of model-making.
-The formation lights on the top/back of the saucer don't blink. That's why they are FORMATION LIGHTS. Stop making them blink. They are static in he movie, as they should be.
-There is NO WAY the FX guys could pad-print the models they are making. That is silly. They don't have millions of dollars of pad-printing equipment on-hand. They are using the kit decals. It just makes sense. It won't be completely accurate...but This is a semi-mass produced model. They CANNOT spend 400 hours on each one. They would go bankrupt.
For $5000, you will get a very nice model. It will not be super-accurate, but it WILL be nice.
It will be good-enough for most of the folks who will buy one.
For me...I am doing my own thing.
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TiberiousST
Member
SD Studios, wow a very insightful post, thanks for that! Having been a lurker here for years and a participant on Hobby Talk for over ten I'm always looking for thoughts on the TMP ship. I have two of the original releases of the PL movie Ent, neither of which has the extra parts released later which has dissuaded me from building one (PL isn't likely to send me the extra parts and I can't justify buying a 3rd kit when I haven't built one of the first two.) QMX's 5k wonder seemed like a decent (expensive, but decent) alternative. When I asked about what kind of 'personalizations' they'd consider, they told me that they didn't list them as they wanted people to do their own thing....which is cool, but I can't see how they could deal with someone's specific requests (the Officer's lounge like TMP, not like they show on their site; the specific green color on engineering rather than the later-used blues; getting the gold/brown deflector color of TMP right rather than just the blue used more commonly, etc...) but I'm thinking of testing the waters.
I'm very impressed with the eye for detail so many of you have here (inspiring me to finally make an account) so thanks very much for sharing your perspectives!
Tib
I'm very impressed with the eye for detail so many of you have here (inspiring me to finally make an account) so thanks very much for sharing your perspectives!
Tib
Proper
Well-Known Member
I have no ties whatsoever to QMx. I am "defending" the product because I like to give the Devil his due and I like fairness and the free market system.
"Uninformed opinions"? My points express my simple preference for the QMx build for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts. I have mentioned that I don't care that much about small "inaccuracies." I acknowledge that this a 1/350 scale replica, a replica of the studio model and it is not the studio model itself. I'm a Star Trek fan, not a modeling guru. The PL/QMx accuracy is good enough for me. I'm more interested in workmanship and peace of mind as a buyer.
For most Star Trek fans this is a wonderful opportunity to own a great model of the refit (and the Abrams ship)! QMx makes this widely possible for those who don’t feel comfortable and secure with private contracting. I know enough about modeling to know that $5K is a lot of money but not unreasonable for the the PL refit build if it’s done professionally. I don’t doubt that someone can do it for less. Again, I like having the option of saying, “You know what, this thing doesn’t cut it. It looks nothing like the pics. It falls way short of my expectations or what was promised and I want my $5K back including all shipping costs. Thank you very much.” My MR experience was a learning one. I don't need to have an extensive knowledge of model building or be a seasoned RPF politician to form common sense opinions.
As SD Studios suggested in post #182, in reality one would have to get their hands on a much more expensive model to "eliminate" the inaccuracies. Good luck.
I have neither the $5K (or $3K for that matter) to invest or the space for another 1/350 model. The TOS ship is my favorite and only baby! I’m just opining because I felt that many here were bashing QMx unfairly. Licensing issues and other politics are really irrelevant; their price is their price. One can take the ship home and put it on their shelf, or they can leave it on the shelf at the QMx warehouse. Folks will do either one or the other.
I have a life outside RPF. Maybe when I get to 5,000 posts I'll know.
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Wait a minute, I only have 2,020 posts (at the time of this post) and I know who they are. But I'm a fast learner.
The should have a less featured build for under $2K.
Skip the hanger, skip some of the lighting.
Good enough azteking. Don't sweat the accuracy details as much.
Skip the hanger, skip some of the lighting.
Good enough azteking. Don't sweat the accuracy details as much.
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
******, what an a$$hole!
Proper
Well-Known Member
Ah, yes... the "high and mighty." I see you've put your "$$" where your "hole" is. You are clever.
But don't you mean: -.-. .... .-. .. ... - / .-- .... .- - / .- -. / .- ... ... .... --- .-.. .
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I think that Proper as a casual modeler and Star Trek fan is entitled to his opinion as a person that is not a modeler. In that light his opinion is perfectly reasonable - However this is a forum of pretty serious modelers... all the way to the seriously hardcore modelers... I think Proper has mistaken accuracy nitpicking for bashing. Many on this forum are equal or greater in talent than the QMx employees. That is NOT a bash on QMx. Many of the modelrs here can do as good or better... again not a bash of QMx. Many here would charge less for the same or better quality of work than what QMx is is offereing, not a bash of QMx... All of these things are statements of fact.
To Propers point about piece of mind... If someone were to commission a model form one of the "regulars" here - piece of mind is all but guaranteed... and he'd know that if he were also a regular here.
To us that ahve a reasonable level of skill with modeling a 5K model is something we don't even consider (espercially if we can get the exact same base kit to start from) since we know we can get the results we desire for much less - for the casual modeler or strictly a "fan" it might be their only choice to get a model if this quality. For them it might be worth it.
So to all invovled - Peace... its all good. just this forum is the wrong place to "defend" this pricetag since many people here see that price tag as way too much for what they were getting compared to what they can do themselves... in another forum - not hardcore modelers the reaction and logic might be better received... its all about the audience
Jedi Dade
To Propers point about piece of mind... If someone were to commission a model form one of the "regulars" here - piece of mind is all but guaranteed... and he'd know that if he were also a regular here.
To us that ahve a reasonable level of skill with modeling a 5K model is something we don't even consider (espercially if we can get the exact same base kit to start from) since we know we can get the results we desire for much less - for the casual modeler or strictly a "fan" it might be their only choice to get a model if this quality. For them it might be worth it.
So to all invovled - Peace... its all good. just this forum is the wrong place to "defend" this pricetag since many people here see that price tag as way too much for what they were getting compared to what they can do themselves... in another forum - not hardcore modelers the reaction and logic might be better received... its all about the audience
Jedi Dade
I do not believe that Qmx is obilgated to refund the entire $5K or the shipping costs.
On their Customer Service/Returns page ...
As for refunding the shipping charges, Qmx goes on to state
While the out of pocket risk is much less with Qmx, you still could be out $1000 plus $100+ in shipping, if you return the Enterprise.
