kelly heroes costume

[Sliper8]

hi , I'm trying to find out what the uniforms where in Kelly's mainly for Kelly and oddball. If anyone has any expertise in ww2 - 1970s uniforms it would be really helpful with tracking down parts and what the uniforms where.

so far I know that Kellys jacket is a ww2 style tanker jacket

kellys helmet would just be a m1 pot helmet with netting

no idea on boots pants and shirt tho

and for oddball his jacket is an A2 style jacket but it appears to be a 60s or 70s remake as the pocket buttons are different to original A2 jackets. I have heard that the 1960s/ early 70s Schott jacket is similar but I'm not sure if there's different versions of them.

as for his flight cap I have no idea on the model

pants and boots for oddball I am also unsure of.

if anyone has a good knowledge of kellys heroes costumes/ uniforms or ww2 uniforms please let me know if you can tell what some of the uniform parts are, any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

here's some photos of Kelly and oddball that may help to identify what there uniforms parts are.

 

[CT1138]

A lot of 60s and 70s, and even some 1980s movies set in WWII used old WW-era surplus gear, a lot of it unissued surplus that never got issued before the war ended. So it's entirely possible that they're wearing surplus gear that wardrobe fitted for them. Kelly looks like he's wearing plain old pinks for pants, and roughout boots with heavy dubbing. The undershirts all look like your standard GI OD shirt.

Can't say for certain about Oddball's helmet, but but it looks RAF judging by the ones I'm finding online. Closest match I can find is the Type-C, but that also has some differences.

A pain about WWII uniforms is they were horribly inconsistent, and not just from soldiers tinkering with them to make them more comfortable or customized. Different manufacturers put different seams in different places, added buttons, removed buttons. The end result was "technically" close enough for the War Office, but if you looked beyond the line up, you'd see all sorts of discrepancies.

 

[Sliper8]

A lot of 60s and 70s, and even some 1980s movies set in WWII used old WW-era surplus gear, a lot of it unissued surplus that never got issued before the war ended. So it's entirely possible that they're wearing surplus gear that wardrobe fitted for them. Kelly looks like he's wearing plain old pinks for pants, and roughout boots with heavy dubbing. The undershirts all look like your standard GI OD shirt.

Can't say for certain about Oddball's helmet, but but it looks RAF judging by the ones I'm finding online. Closest match I can find is the Type-C, but that also has some differences.

A pain about WWII uniforms is they were horribly inconsistent, and not just from soldiers tinkering with them to make them more comfortable or customized. Different manufacturers put different seams in different places, added buttons, removed buttons. The end result was "technically" close enough for the War Office, but if you looked beyond the line up, you'd see all sorts of discrepancies.

thanks for the info , so basically there's lots of different variants of the same gear so there would be a couple of dozen different versions of tanker jackets , same with boots , pants and shirts so it would be really hard to find accurate versions ?

as far as oddballs jacket goes there seems to be so many variants that its going to be hard to find one that is the same pattern with the right buttons

also as far as kellys boots what are roughout boots with heavy dubbing ?

 

[p51]

• Oddball is wearing a USAAF A-11 helmet without the radio receivers. His "A2 jacket" is some type of postwar civilian made one
• He is wearing M1943 HBT trousers and a tan t-shirt
• Kelly and a few of the officers are wearing some production-made copy of a tanker jacket (actually known as a winter combat jacket) made from OD green material. They're not WW2 ones. I've seen similar jackets in the "Patton" movie
• Most of Kelly's soldiers are wearing wool uniforms, M43 double buckle boots and M1945 field packs (which could not be seen in Normandy). They also are wearing some manner of eastern European leather magazine bags, which are NOT from WW2

I've been collecting WW2 stuff for over 30 years. This is one of my favorite movies. Though a lot of stuff is wrong, it's still far more accurate than other films from the time.

 

[Sliper8]

• Oddball is wearing a USAAF A-11 helmet without the radio receivers. His "A2 jacket" is some type of postwar civilian made one
• He is wearing M1943 HBT trousers and a tan t-shirt
• Kelly and a few of the officers are wearing some production-made copy of a tanker jacket (actually known as a winter combat jacket) made from OD green material. They're not WW2 ones. I've seen similar jackets in the "Patton" movie
• Most of Kelly's soldiers are wearing wool uniforms, M43 double buckle boots and M1945 field packs (which could not be seen in Normandy). They also are wearing some manner of eastern European leather magazine bags, which are NOT from WW2

I've been collecting WW2 stuff for over 30 years. This is one of my favorite movies. Though a lot of stuff is wrong, it's still far more accurate than other films from the time.

oh wow , thanks for all the info , so the jacket Kelly wears , is that an available jacket or only made for production ? if so what would you need to look up to find one ? , also any idea what brand oddball's A2 jacket is ?

 

[CT1138]

also as far as kellys boots what are roughout boots with heavy dubbing ?

Roughout boots, as in the standard issue WWII boot worn by GIs during WW2. The "roughout" refers to the sueded leather outer of the boots. The US Army needed a field boot that could act as both adequate footwear in battle and still stylish enough to be cleaned up and worn in uniform, thus saving on leather instead of issuing soldiers two different kinds of boots. Early years issued gaiters for the boots, while later years issued a version with a leather, double buckled extension to the top.

The "dubbing" is a kind of protective wax put on the boots to waterproof them, and gave them the distinct dark color you see on the boots.

 

[p51]

so the jacket Kelly wears , is that an available jacket or only made for production ? if so what would you need to look up to find one ? , also any idea what brand oddball's A2 jacket is ?

Costume houses seemed to have issues finding the winter combat jackets (incorrectly called by collectors as "Tanker Jackets" for decades) in the 60s and 70s, and you see a few movies with these ones made at that time. They vanished in subsequent years, and I've always assumed the costume houses made them. Good luck finding into on more than that.
As for Oddball's A2, I'd bet a decent amount that it was something they found commercially made, as costume houses had plenty of real A-2 jackets in that timeframe (someone in the 70s or early 80s hit a few of them with a fake ID for a fake movie, rented as many as they could, then vanished into the night. I know one of two have turned up over the years but most never were found). Again, good luck finding the vendor, as countless companies made A-2 look-alike jackets over the ages.

 

[Sliper8]

Costume houses seemed to have issues finding the winter combat jackets (incorrectly called by collectors as "Tanker Jackets" for decades) in the 60s and 70s, and you see a few movies with these ones made at that time. They vanished in subsequent years, and I've always assumed the costume houses made them. Good luck finding into on more than that.
As for Oddball's A2, I'd bet a decent amount that it was something they found commercially made, as costume houses had plenty of real A-2 jackets in that timeframe (someone in the 70s or early 80s hit a few of them with a fake ID for a fake movie, rented as many as they could, then vanished into the night. I know one of two have turned up over the years but most never were found). Again, good luck finding the vendor, as countless companies made A-2 look-alike jackets over the ages.

ah yeah right so with the oddball one its just a matter of waiting and trying to get one with the correct pattern , and as for the Kelly one I most likely won't be able to find that ?

 

[p51]

ah yeah right so with the oddball one its just a matter of waiting and trying to get one with the correct pattern , and as for the Kelly one I most likely won't be able to find that ?

Essentially, yes to both.
As there are limitless copies of the A2 jacket made since the 40s, you're talking about a needle in a haystack situation. If you truly wanted one like that, I'd suggest going with some company who could custom make such a jacket from screen captures.
And as for the production made light OD green 'tanker' jackets, well, I've been into this stuff since the 1980s and not only have I never seen one turn up anywhere, I've never even heard of one even in someone’s collection. You'd probably be better off having someone tailor make one as well, but that would be tough to find someone as dedicated to copying it as close as you'd probably want for a screen match.
Such a jacket in either case would not be cheap.

 

[19narvik40]

So I did a Google search for WW2 Tanker Jacket and came up with a whole slew off hits. After comparing some images from the movie with the Google hits it would appear that Kelly's jacket is or was styled after this jacket. The slanted hand pockets are the give away.

Original WWII GI Winter Combat Jacket - Tanker Jacket
Jacket, Tankers; Jacket, Combat

I found some shops that do some reasonable copies of the jacket,
Buzz Rickson U. S. Army 2nd-Model Tanker Jacket 1942 BR15146 | History Preservation
https://www.wwiiimpressions.com/products/443
Jacket, Winter (Tanker), Luxe
Winter Combat "Tanker" Uniforms

I hope this is helpful.

 

[p51]

So I did a Google search for WW2 Tanker Jacket and came up with a whole slew off hits. After comparing some images from the movie with the Google hits it would appear that Kelly's jacket is or was styled after this jacket. The slanted hand pockets are the give away.
View attachment 1712211

Those are pretty close. The production-made jackets were clearly copies of the winter ("tanker") combat jacket, but the production used replicas made out of a light OD green material that the real ones were never made with. The OP, I think, wanted something that was screen-accurate. Sadly, nobody makes something that'd match those production made jackets and you're very unlikely to find one made for the film.

 

[Sliper8]

Those are pretty close. The production-made jackets were clearly copies of the winter ("tanker") combat jacket, but the production used replicas made out of a light OD green material that the real ones were never made with. The OP, I think, wanted something that was screen-accurate. Sadly, nobody makes something that'd match those production made jackets and you're very unlikely to find one made for the film.

yeah right so the most accurate way t get one would be to get one made in the od green ? , also do you think they made oddballs jacket especially for the film too ?

 

[p51]

yeah right so the most accurate way t get one would be to get one made in the od green ? , also do you think they made oddballs jacket especially for the film too ?

Yeah, I'm not aware of any winter combat ("tanker") jacket made in that shade by anyone other than for those movie and perhaps some made for "Patton" which look quite similar.
As for Oddball's "A2" looking jacket, I strongly suspect that was a commercial off the rack one. Plenty of real ones could be had at costume houses at the time and Sutherland was not an usual size to find an original for him to wear then.

 

[Sliper8]

Yeah, I'm not aware of any winter combat ("tanker") jacket made in that shade by anyone other than for those movie and perhaps some made for "Patton" which look quite similar.
As for Oddball's "A2" looking jacket, I strongly suspect that was a commercial off the rack one. Plenty of real ones could be had at costume houses at the time and Sutherland was not an usual size to find an original for him to wear then.

after more research ( only like half an hours worth tho ) I have found 2 different pretty close but not 100% accurate jacket both In an olive green colour one is a civilian purchase jacket made between between ww2 and the Korean War roughly tho its pockets appear slightly too small. the other was made in the 70s ( this one is after the movie was made probably they could have made them is the late 60s tho but idk ) this one has an incorrect collar to kelly's jacket tho ( I will draw up what his collar should look like from bits of the movie , its hard to tell as its often folded in a bit. , the lighter one is the Korean War one

 

[p51]

after more research ( only like half an hours worth tho ) I have found 2 different pretty close but not 100% accurate jacket both In an olive green colour one is a civilian purchase jacket made between between ww2 and the Korean War roughly tho its pockets appear slightly too small. the other was made in the 70s ( this one is after the movie was made probably they could have made them is the late 60s tho but idk ) this one has an incorrect collar to kelly's jacket tho ( I will draw up what his collar should look like from bits of the movie , its hard to tell as its often folded in a bit. , the lighter one is the Korean War one

Those both look like nylon. The Kelly's Heroes/Patton 'tanker' jackets were clearly not nylon if you watch them in either film.
I will always be of the opinion that they were made by costume folks with the studios.

 

[Sliper8]

Those both look like nylon. The Kelly's Heroes/Patton 'tanker' jackets were clearly not nylon if you watch them in either film.
I will always be of the opinion that they were made by costume folks with the studios.

what material do you think they where made from ?

 

[p51]

what material do you think they where made from ?

Well, watch those movies. There's no sheen to the fabric, so my money is on a twill of some kind, probably lighter than the stuff the real ones were made from back in the day.
While I applaud you trying to find the right thing, I still think they were made by a studio costume house (for what reason, I have no idea, as the production clearly had plenty of M-41/Parson's jackets in use).

 

[Sliper8]

Well, watch those movies. There's no sheen to the fabric, so my money is on a twill of some kind, probably lighter than the stuff the real ones were made from back in the day.
While I applaud you trying to find the right thing, I still think they were made by a studio costume house (for what reason, I have no idea, as the production clearly had plenty of M-41/Parson's jackets in use).

yeah I'm think beginning to think the best option is for me to carefully watch it and Draw up some jacket patterns and get one made , dunno how soon thats gonna happen tho

 

[p51]

I posted the question on Oddball's A2 jacket here.
If anyone could ID it, it would be those on that forum.
Turns out, someone commercially made a replica of Oddball's jacket!

 

[19narvik40]

I posted the question on Oddball's A2 jacket here.
If anyone could ID it, it would be those on that forum.
Turns out, someone commercially made a replica of Oddball's jacket!

The jacket in your link is way too light for Oddball's jacket. This jacket, Men Type A-2 Repro Real Leather Brown Aviator flying Pilot Jacket is the closest in colour and this one, MEN'S TYPE A2 BRONCO MILITARY FLIGHT REAL GOATSKIN LEATHER JACKET is the next best match.