Is 3D Printing Being Overused Now?

I knew this was going to pop up...

So?

Unless your business is losing money because of it, i can't see how it matters? If it is, buy a 3D printer to compete i guess...

It's the same debate as 'do i sand this by hand or use an orbital sander?', 'Mac vs PC', and a bunch of other's... at the end 'use what you want'.

Some people will still do it the old fashion way, while other move to the latest tech/way to do it. I think it's called evolving with times or something.

If 3D printing is being lazy... then what about e-mail and texting? Those are lazy... get those pigeons flying! :lol :lol :lol

It's called efficiency, not being lazy... YES the tech needs to evolve more, but how will it if no one uses it? Maybe one day you can do a run on 3D printers quickly and for cheap (and with little to no finishing required). This won't happen until more and more people use the technology and motivate companies to put money in the R&D (and drive prices down!).

I'm off to go watch Pacific Rim (forced 3D... yay...).

You guys have fun... :)
 
Oh but you have to model it in a computer, big deal....

If every tom dick and harry is doing it it can't be that hard.
...
It is a lazy way to make a prop.

Whoa. I've made lots of stuff by hand over the years, so I too feel justified in chiming in here . I've spent weeks on commissioned prop builds, making things out of styrene, resin, cast metal, sculpting clay, machining on lathes, sewing and casting latex. I'll toot my own horn here and say that each and every one of my "hand made" props has garnered a lot of praise.

BUT

These days I do a LOT of 3d printing as well... and I spend just as much time, energy and creative though putting those models together. Sometimes even more so, because on the computer I can make things with more precision... and I make an even harder effort to get it perfect. Also, since printing IS very expensive at the moment, I spend extra time making sure things are done right before ordering a print.

The biggest advantage? Printing enables us to do props that would be impossible to do without access to a fully equipped machine shop... and sometimes to make things that would practically impossible even with access to such a shop.

One doesn't need to exclude the other either. Take a look at the Lawgiver project I did with Morganthirteen. First I spent weeks making the master model for printing, then he took over and made a basically flawless resin kit out of it. Being able to print TWO identical master models (one for me, one for M13) helped as well, since it saved me having to send my master over the atlantic and risk damage or loss. The perfect blend of old and new techniques- and people are saying they've never seen a kit as clean or nice to work on.

You use the best tool for the job at hand, to get the desired result, plain and simple. Would I use 3d printing to build a Proton Pack? HELL NO! There's no point to it. But to build, say, the Oblivion pistol (like I'm currently doing)... 3d printing is the best way to do it- especially if you want screen accuracy since the originals were printed as well!

3d prints need manual work to look good to, as has been said already. You can't (in any practical way, yet) 3d print decals, paint and so on. You have to take it project by project.

I will admit that I've become spoiled and very particular about quality lately. Having gotten kits from master casters such as Morganthirteen, Matsuo and others... as well as having 3d printed a lot with very fine precision, has soured me to wonky basement cast props in cheapo white resin with air bubbles. I find joy in building and creating, not cleaning up casting errors. Actually, I've never enjoyed fixing wobbly casts because it feels like I'm wasting time that could have been saved if I had gotten a proper casting instead. One thing I WILL admit to being "lazy" about is that I freakin' hate having to clean every single surface in my hobby room (or mess up the kitchen or bathroom) because I had to do lots of sanding on something that could have been avoided.

There are of course certain props that I would want to be "wonky" because of how they were presented on-screen. I'd never want a symmetrical TK bucket, for example. There is a certain appeal to preserving the crazy things prop masters have "gotten away with"... but printing doesn't have to stop that either.. you don't have to model symmetrically if you don't want to!

Then there's the whole "interest" thing when doing runs. Frankly, some runs don't justify the work, expense and health-risks involved in making a kit. I myself don't have a garage or ventilated den, so the less I can expose myself, my GF and our cats (with their sensitive little lungs) to chemical fumes in the apartment, the better! Resin and silicone in the US may be cheap, but here in Sweden a batch of silicone enough for a pistol can easily run up to $80-100... and that's not for the good stuff! If you only have maybe 5 people interested in a prop, it's better to just have 1st generation masters printed of the prop in question. There's a thread going right now in the JY where I'm modeling a conversion kit to turn a Beretta 93R into Robocop's Auto-9. It's a "simple" build to do manually really, except for the grips. But at the same time it's a kit that would better lend itself to machining if you want perfectly straight edges in the cuts for a "machined" look. The grip, on the other hand, really needed to be done either by printing or machining and as much as I'd want to... I don't have access to the latter... so 3d printing it is. As to if it's "lazy"... well... I DID spend a couple weeks learning to model in an entirely new way JUST to be able to model those grips (and I've been 3d modeling off and on for years). The Auto-9 kit is also one of those instances when the demand for a kit many not justify making molds and casting.

Ok.. this has been a long-winded rant that still basically just boils down to the fact that both old and new ways of doing things will always have their place. Due to the evolution of techniques and building methods, digital and analog, we're seeing stuff made here on the RPF that are astounding... and I don't see anyone being "lazy".

(Well... except maybe those people that sign up and make ONE post in the prop section saying "where can i buy a protonpack with light and sound fast, i have $300 to spend?")
 
Like it or not the technology is here to stay. It's in it's infancy now, but wait a few years and it will be in almost every hobbyist's home. For those people who want to keep doing things the way they are now, that's great. For those who have a different skill set but still want to make their own props this is great too.
There is a finite supply of models that builders use for greebles. Like it or not, those that do things the "old way" will eventually need the help of a 3d artist. So lets work together and keep the hobby going strong.

TazMan2000
 
It looks as though no matter how many times it is restated here, the gist of the argument is being overlooked and lost.

As stated, making a master and putting in the resin can be easier to do than building a print yourself from an already made 3D computer model, which also in turn needs sanding/painting itself just like a mold. There's nothing "lazy" about printing out multiple copies of the print as opposed to the molding method. There's more to printing a good quality copy than just clicking print.

I agree that it isn't always the best way to do it as far as cost is concerned (although sometimes it's negligible), but again not everyone is interested in casting/molding when they can continue the skill they've already acquired and print it instead. That would be like saying "why don't you just learn to use autocad!" to someone who's been doing it the old way forever. They may just have no interest in learning it.
 
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Yeah, I think 3D printing is being somewhat over used. I think it's just so new and cool, that people want to find a reason to use it. I think the technology is great for printing masters and/or prototypes, but actually printing every object is absurd. It's also way more time consuming than casting out of a mold. if you print a multiple objects in one sheet, you're looking at hours depending on the size and complexity of the design, but smoothcast 320 takes like 5 minutes before it can be demolded. I think the rapid prototyping applications are great, but yes, I think 3d printing is being abused.
 
Then there's the whole "interest" thing when doing runs. Frankly, some runs don't justify the work, expense and health-risks involved in making a kit.

I agree on this point. A few months back, I modeled the hotel key chain from Dexter, intending on molding it and selling a few castings. Despite the interest before I ordered the print, no one wanted the copies. Instead of letting it go to waste, I put it up for sale on my shapeways store, and still have only sold 2 of them, and they were to the same guy... So, it can make sense to print the end product, but I agree that most things should be cast from a master.
 
I've spent the better part of the last month working on plans (2D layouts and 3D models) for my next major project. Its simple, but complicated at the same time. Lots of parts that have to fit just right. A lot of slots, pockets, curved parts and holes that need to be concentric. Rather than spend time hand machining the parts, or working up the G-Code to CNC the parts, I plan on 3D printing the parts for my initial testing. Get the kinks worked out, then take my time to work up the G-Code to have the final parts milled in a CNC.

Would it be cheating using a CNC since I didn't break out the dremel/router to carve out the part?

This is something for me, I don't plan on selling it at this point in time. Now, I finish it and people go nuts over it and could figure a way to make it worth the hassle, I would design and CNC a mold.

3D printing is a tool, like any other tool needs to be used properly.
 
I don't even consider printing every part as being lazy, it just doesn't make financial sense in most situations. As such, the issue will take care of its self. If someone offers a part straight from the printer for 100 and the buyer has to do all the finish work and someone else offers casts from a cleaned up master for 50, pretty simple who will be selling and who won't.
 
Just a side note -Please look at this model I made in 3D and tell me how "Lazy" it was....

Screen Shot 2013-07-12 at 12.25.14 PM.png

Anyone who owns one:

Universal Monsters - Fossilized Creature Hand Limited Edition Prop Replica

... can probably attest to how tiny the details are, which 3D sculpting really advances.

*Sorry - I just get really mad when people say digital sculpting is lazy. The 2 years I spent learning 3D art and 12 years I have spent honing it sure haven't felt "lazy" to me.
 
Lets not forget. For someone whos no pro and cant sculpt. Its more accurate. Pepakura always has human error. Theres too much work for it all to be perfect and symmetrical. And those talented enough to do it perfect would probably sculpt it. Machines are more accurate then the average joe.

J

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
 
Just a side note -Please look at this model I made in 3D and tell me how "Lazy" it was....

So what you're saying is, you didn't bother to read anything in the thread. Ok.

So tell me, what production method was used to produce those that are all being sold? Were they all 3D printed or was traditional and more cost efficient methods used?

But you'd have been able to answer that already if you had RTFT.
 
Kerr - ummm - actually quite the opposite -

I was the first person to thoughtfully respond to this post, and I was more replying to how I interpreted Zorg's comment about Being able to just download and sculpt, and how its "Lazy".

If I missread that, my mistake.
 
So what you're saying is, you didn't bother to read anything in the thread. Ok.

So tell me, what production method was used to produce those that are all being sold? Were they all 3D printed or was traditional and more cost efficient methods used?

But you'd have been able to answer that already if you had RTFT.

read my FIRST REPLY where I say traditional methods are cheaper.....
 
Sorry, annoyed how many people are so hung up on a total and complete misinterpretation of the question due to absolute incomprehensible inability to read some words on a page. This isn't "huh-huh.. 3D printing bad.. me go make things with sticks now" or fear of technological progress. I am really excited by the ability to make masters with 3D printing, but I am really concerned how people are using so heavily as a crutch to produce final products for sale when there are much better and more cost effective methods to produce the final product.
 
I totally agree - Its another tool - and an AWESOME tool - to use in your arsenal -

If you look on the same Factory site, I also sculpted to wolfman Cane - Albeit, its a bad picture -

The wolfcane itself was sculpted in Clay, the pentagram was 3d - it just worked better that way...

Economically, for large things, you cant beat silicone and resin....

Like you said, if you make something the size of a blade runner blaster (example) the 3D print might cost anywhere from 1000$ to 1500$ (Not including makerbots, etc.. which dont give a clean enough print to use as a master...)

So even if you spend 300$ making a mold ... You can probably run casts for 15$ each....

so you have 15$ vs $1500.... And I dont see that changing any time soon!!!


BUT - I CAN see someone -- like if they have a small part thats 10$ each to print, just doing prints VS silicone / resin for a lot of reasons. A) silicone is messy and not everyone can make molds. B) resin fumes suck, etc.... I wouldnt call that lazy though.. just a different set of priorities in cost vs. profit.
 
I do not use 3D, I am not able to.
Still I don't think it's being overused. People should use it AS MUCH AS they want.

I take myself as an example on this.
I used to do all by hand.
Then I bought a laser cutter.

The laser cutter does by no mean give me finished pieces, but it helps me making more accurate and more precise props.
It's not the tool, but who uses it.

- I've seen so MANY 3D printed things on here that were not accurate,
- AND if they were enough, the person who prepped it for molding didn't do a good job,
- AND if they did a good job, the cast wasn't up to par or had no way a quality justifying a freaking high price only because it is a 3d printed model.

So as you see, there are SO MANY variables in order to make a good quality prop here.
So, it's always up to people to decide.

Everybody now is 3D printing stuff. Few do good stuff.
So what's new!? :D
 
3D printing is the new pepakura! The old school folks complain about how the new way is ruining things! ;)

As it stands now today, I agree that selling 3D printed pieces vs. molding/casting them seems inefficient. A couple of years from now people will be rolling their eyes at the old dude who still slings resin and saying "why are you doing that... 3D printing is so much cheaper!"

One dimension I haven't seen in all of this that is of particular interest to me is the cash value of prop maker time.

I sculpt a lot of things, make a lot of molds, and very rarely sell any of it anywhere. I don't think I've ever posted a run here, despite being responsible for several hundred helmets, suits of armor and toy guns in the wild. The reason? I don't have time to do it. There isn't enough money in the sale of items to justify the time I would sink into offering kits. As a result, those silicone molds of mine sit on shelves and rot (seriously! I've got a clone trooper helmet mold that after almost a year of life has done 2 castings!)

If I was using a 3D printing service and drop-shipping to customers that would be a whole different animal. A helmet would take me 10 minutes at work to "produce" vs. 30 minutes at home and a trip to the post office. So what if I only make $5 on the helmet? That's $5 more dollars than I'd have otherwise and more importantly, that's a helmet someone else never would have had. If the customer and seller are both satisfied with the cost and product, good for them!
 
Sorry, annoyed how many people are so hung up on a total and complete misinterpretation of the question due to absolute incomprehensible inability to read some words on a page. This isn't "huh-huh.. 3D printing bad.. me go make things with sticks now" or fear of technological progress. I am really excited by the ability to make masters with 3D printing, but I am really concerned how people are using so heavily as a crutch to produce final products for sale when there are much better and more cost effective methods to produce the final product.

Heres your dummy lol

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
 
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