Is 3D Printing Being Overused Now?

[msleeper]

I find it absolutely hilarious that the people who are claiming that 3D modeling and 3D printing is "lazy" turn around and admit they have no experience with modeling, don't know the amount of technical and artistic skill required in making a 3D model, and think that because you can download Blender for free and look up videos on Youtube that every average Joe out there can become a master modeler. It can take hundreds of hours to produce a perfect model, and without actual artistic talent, you won't end up with a final product you're really happy with. To say that "all you do is click save and print" makes me think you have a serious disconnect about what the process actually is, and why you have no respect for it.

 

[brandomack]

It can take hundreds of hours to produce a perfect model, and without actual artistic talent, you won't end up with a final product you're really happy with. To say that "all you do is click save and print" makes me think you have a serious disconnect about what the process actually is, and why you have no respect for it.

Spend a thousand hours in a 95 degree shed covered in bondo dust, developing tendonitis from sanding and scribing and come talk to me about a serious disconnect... We've earned the right to our opinions.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.

 

[nitrox]

Spend a thousand hours in a 95 degree shed covered in bondo dust, developing tendonitis from sanding and scribing and come talk to me about a serious disconnect... We've earned the right to our opinions.

Back off.

Dude, Take it easy.

I can understand why you are entitled to your opinion and I'm not taking anything away from you. But, you can't simply have the the attitude of "way way is harder therefore its the only way and the right way" that would be an incredibly narrow viewpoint.

I have tried going the manual labor way and I agree it's not easy, but neither is creating a 3D model in all it's fine detail sitting in front of a monitor for hours and hours on end. At the end of the day if you chose to "Spend a thousand hours in a 95 degree shed covered in bondo dust, developing tendonitis from sanding and scribing" then thats your choice to do so. But don't complain at others for having a different approach to the same subject.

We are all friends taking different paths to the same destination.

 

[msleeper]

I also think you're assuming that any of the current or next generation of 3D printers can output a complete and 100% finished product. Or even an 80% finished product. While there are printers that can output nearly finished results, they cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars at minimum. Far from something a hobbyist could dream of owning. A printer like the Formlabs 1, which uses UV curing resin to print in a fidelity that is 10x finer than extrusion type printers, will make a printed object closer to finished right out of the machine, but even then you're still going to need to put manual labor hours in to a piece.

And then of course let's not forget that, like any major power tool, 3D printers need maintenance and calibration and they aren't 100% perfect, 100% of the time. If you think that using a 3D printer is the same as using an inkjet printer then, again, it sounds like you have a major lack of understanding for the actual process that goes on. It will be years before people can "simply" print a model, and have it remotely compare to an actual finished piece.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

I don't think it was meant that utilizing 3D printing as a method is lazy, utilizing 3D printing as a method for finished pieces to sell rather than mastering, molding, and casting is lazy and rather cost inefficient.

 

[brandomack]

I don't think it was meant that utilizing 3D printing as a method is lazy, utilizing 3D printing as a method for finished pieces to sell rather than mastering, molding, and casting is lazy and rather cost inefficient.

Thank you Kevin, That's what I was trying to get at.

 

[nitrox]

OK, I agree with this in that case. 3D printing is great to make a master very quickly with little mess, for doing a production run of course making a mold and using resin is always going to be financially better for the maker.

 

[Bimmer]

As someone who has primarily models for the purpose of 3d printing, i feel i can weigh in on this.

I 100% agree that using printed models as finished pieces (or even kits) is a rather lazy and expensive approach. Profit margins are going to be very slim and depending on the product, people will be paying quite a bit for still unfinished piece(s). Maybe i haven't been strolling the junkyard too much lately, but i can only think of 1 or 2 projects offering prints through shapeways for people to order,s o i'm not seeing this as a huge problem just maybe not the most efficient method to get the best bang for your buck as a consumer.

As far as people complaining about offering castings and work with print lines still in it, i dont think is an issue strictly tied to printed objects. I can't tell you how many clay sculpts, pepakura/bondo pieces, foam builds etc that still have a far from finished look that needed hours of sanding or other finish work. On each one of my 3d rings i sell, i spend upwards of 5 to 6 hours per ring making them as perfect as possible so that there is no need for further work to be done by the end user. At this point, its all about the person who's making the object. If they are good and make superb quality work it will show in the finished product, so just be wary of who you buy from and know what you're getting. I know that this forum caters from beginners all the way to professionals and the various skill levels will be apparent. I do think if a piece is going to offered for sale, it should be pristine though. Sanding marks gone. Printing lines gone. Machine marks gone. Thats how i see it at least.

Concering 3d modeling, is personally my favorite form of artistic expression. Whether you're an old fashioned hands on type of person or not, i think as makers/artists and prop enthusiasts we should all respect the different forms and methods out there. Some ways work better for others. I've used many different medias out there from pencil, pen, colored pencil, paint, clay, photoshop, 3d modeling etc. Modeling is what i'm best at, but i don't think it makes me any less of an artist or less skilled than someone who does something a different way. I also am not suggesting it makes me superior to any other methodologies. 3d is the most challenging media i've worked with but its what i find the most rewarding.

As with all artists, there will be some with greater skills than others though. Suggesting that "save and print" and that any joe schmoe can do that is disrespectful. Sure anyone CAN do it, but doing it well is a whole different ball game. Anyone can sculpt or paint too, but that doesn't make them a Michelangelo or Monet.

 

[Darth Lars]

They're printing something, and then selling it without cleaning up the print lines. To me, that's not even a kit-ready product.

Even worse is when someone prints a master that he moulds without cleaning up the print lines, and then and sell casts in a material (such as foam), where it is practically impossible to clean up the print lines yourself.

When I am about to mould something, I spend several days of sanding and priming to make ****ed sure that my master has a perfect surface before I pour silicone over it.

 

[Vampiel]

I don't think it was meant that utilizing 3D printing as a method is lazy, utilizing 3D printing as a method for finished pieces to sell rather than mastering, molding, and casting is lazy and rather cost inefficient.

If you go to school for years and spend tens of thousands of dollars learning how to master Autocad then start a business using this method isn't being lazy. It's just the particular skill set you chose. As is very clear from many of these posts, not many have mastered 3D printing but a different method. So why not go master that to, or are you just being lazy?

Also if you print your own models as opposed to using a service such as Shapeways, the cost for printing can be very low even for larger prints after the initial printer investment (depending on the method). It's also much more efficient time wise. I think you're equating efficiency with laziness.

 

[Shades]

Its a tool. Who cares how the job gets done if it produces great props.

As a bonus I get perfect symmetry which ever some of the best sculpts in have bought dont have.

Anyone that looks at my 3d printed deathstroke and tells me I am lazy clearly has no understanding of the process.

Some work with rakes and fingers. Others with mouse clicks. Its still art.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[curlyhairedboy]

at this stage in time, 3D printing is just another arrow in the quiver of rapid prototyping of basic forms.

say i'm trying to build a replica gun from Mass Effect.

I can:

-assemble a cardstock version using pepakura
-craft the basic parts using MDF and glue
-carve the gun using foam
-use a wooden/bondo buck with vac-forming to make a hollow shell
-3D print the basic shapes

none of those methods produces a finished product. all of them require hours of sanding, shaping, detailing, painting, general inspection and "hmmm" moments to produce a really nice prop.

maybe we'll eventually reach the stage when 3D printers can construct things on a molecular scale - then we'll have no more need for sanding/painting/etc.....but that's a LONG way off right now.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

If you go to school for years and spend tens of thousands of dollars learning how to master Autocad then start a business using this method isn't being lazy. It's just the particular skill set you chose. As is very clear from many of these posts, not many have mastered 3D printing but a different method. So why not go master that to, or are you just being lazy?

Also if you print your own models as opposed to using a service such as Shapeways, the cost for printing can be very low even for larger prints after the initial printer investment (depending on the method). It's also much more efficient time wise. I think you're equating efficiency with laziness.

So let's say you're modeling and printing an Iron Man helmet. You think it's less expensive to offer your customers each a printed helmet rather than molding and casting it?

Again, nobody is saying that modeling is lazy, or printing those models is lazy. Printing that model each and every time you sell it? That seems like you're taking the easy way out

 

[Vampiel]

So let's say you're modeling and printing an Iron Man helmet. You think it's less expensive to offer your customers each a printed helmet rather than molding and casting it?

Again, nobody is saying that modeling is lazy, or printing those models is lazy. Printing that model each and every time you sell it? That seems like you're taking the easy way out

And again, different skill sets. It would take time to mold and cast it as opposed to creating a 3D model for it in autocad and they may not even know how to do that.

Not everyone can do both. I don't see how mastering autocad and using that to "print models every time" is taking the easy way out. Why doesn't everyone that knows how to cast learn printing as well? Doesn't have anything to do with taking the easy way out as it does with what skills you have acquired.

 

[Kerr Avon]

And again, different skill sets. It would take time to mold and cast it as opposed to creating a 3D model for it in autocad and they may not even know how to do that.

Not everyone can do both. I don't see how mastering autocad and using that to "print models every time" is taking the easy way out. Why doesn't everyone that knows how to cast learn printing as well? Doesn't have anything to do with taking the easy way out as it does with what skills you have acquired.

So just printing the final product each and every time, at a cost that is double or triple what could be managed by just casting a master isn't the easy way out? Seems exactly that to me.

 

[KramStaar]

3D printing is to models and props what Photoshop is to art. Its a modern tool for a modern world that has distinct advantages over doing things by hand and eye.

Most times it works but sometimes it fails and this is because it can be TOO perfect - take the Vader lid done for EP3, its perfectly balanced detailing looked wrong and it in turn ultimately undermined our perception of the character (ignoring the fact that the actor in the Vader suit was also not Prowse).

As with all tools, there is a choice and for some people using digital solutions 3D printing is a great solution. What should not be forgotten is that when you're sculpting or painting something physically, there is no "undo" button if you make a mistake, there are no layers you can remove/hide and there are no easily accessible chunks of plastic you can drag out of the cupboard if you're either unhappy with the result or you screw up the sculpt or painting completely - you have to physically correct any issues that arise. You are also required to navigate a surface physically - i.e. no matter how big a monitor is its a far cry from actually moving a paint brush over a 6ft x 12ft canvas or your sculpting tool over the endless surface of a car sized sculpt.

It is easier and more efficient? - yes.
Is it cheating? - in my opinion no.

Its a different tool just like a big paintbrush is vs a pencil and any artist is free to select the tool he/she prefers to use. For the rest, it becomes a subjective thing IMO. The artist is either comfortable with the digital alternative or he/she is not and from experience, I can say that the happiest artist is one who has found a way to embrace BOTH solutions.

Regards
MARK

 

[Art Andrews]

Overused?!? How can it be overused? A new, fantastic technology has come along that is far superior to the previous way of doing things, for certain applications. Why would anyone fight the future? That is like arguing that driving a car is lazy when you could just walk. Or, bring back the telegraph... this whole internet thing... lazy and overused... why would anyone want it?

A number of studios are now using direct prints as the props we are seeing in movies (as opposed to using the 3D print for mastering cast copies). Why shouldn't we? The materials and print quality have reached a level that it is feasible so why do it the old way? Just to maintain some level of nostalgia?

Nope. I am all for forward and upward. As print quality continues to improve I won't miss the old days of warped, airbubbled, poorly mixed castings at all...

 

[Kerr Avon]

Its a different tool just like a big paintbrush is vs a pencil and any artist is free to select the tool he/she prefers to use. For the rest, it becomes a subjective thing IMO. The artist is either comfortable with the digital alternative or he/she is not and from experience, I can say that the happiest artist is one who has found a way to embrace BOTH solutions.

AGAIN, this is NOT about mastering your replica with 3D printing. This is about the production of the replica, just using 3D printing to print the actual item you are selling each time, rather than using 3D printing to generate a master which is then cast.

I think there are many times 3D printing is the way to go for making a master. And in some cases, such as making metal parts, even has a place for finished products. But I'm seeing a shift in the JY where people are developing a 3D file and then just providing items for sale that are 3D printed, at a much inflated cost that could easily be abated by using traditional mold techniques, and that is just lazy especially since they're usually shopped out to something like Shapeways.

 

[Vampiel]

The price isn't necessarily that much more expensive if you own your own printer. Printing out copies has it's advantages over casting in some situations. Printing a model is more difficult than throwing some resin in a cast so I'm really not seeing as to how the term lazy is involved at all. There's a lot that goes into printing a successful model. You don't just click print like on an inkjet printer, you have to make sure it's aligned correctly and a lot of different variables come into play for even ones you've already printed. Even Shapeways has to re-print some things because of a model that wasn't printed correctly. Have you ever printed multiple 3D models of your own? I agree that it doesn't make sense if you know how to do BOTH and the molds are cheaper.

If your talking about ordering/selling one from Shapeways that's different, then you are also getting someone else to do the work for you which means it costs more. The same could be said if you got someone else to do your molds for you, it would end up costing more and being easier on you because your paying someone else to work. Same scenario.

Not everyone is good or knows how to make casts/molds but they may be good with autocad.

That is like arguing that driving a car is lazy when you could just walk.

Hahahahaha!

 

[Streetrocks]

I think it is important as prop makers and artists to use every tool at your disposal, and to try and incorporate as many new methods as possible. 3d printing will always have its place in the prop and costuming community, it is definitely here to stay. If we let ourselves be threatened by new approaches and technology we limit ourselves and what we can do. I think it is important to see it for what it is, a new and unique tool that helps us to expand our horizons.