concerning Steve Neisen aka SWProp Builder

[Boba Debt]

I want to make it clear that Steve never said "I shipped your model"

He always said something like "I will ship it on Monday" or "I'm taking it to the UPS store tomorrow"

But this is why I consider his behavior to be a lie.

He said he was going to do something, he didn't do it and then he ignored me.

That is a lie of omission.

In fact, I have had to post 3 public threads on the RPF to get him to respond and then he would contact me via email or PM and promise to ship my model.

Normally he would say he had to add a few more details or he did some more painting, etc.

Then I would wait for a week or so and no PD.

After that my emails and PMs would be ignored for months and I would give him the benefit of the doubt since I know he's in the reserve and could have shipped out.

But eventually I would go public and get the same old story.



I'm not perfect myself, I've delayed projects and I even told one person I just wasn't in the mood to work on their blaster.

But I tried to keep in communication with the them. Even when I knew my reason sounded like a hokey excuse, I knew it was the truth and I hope the person trusted me enough to believe I just wasn't making stuff up.

If Steve had emailed me and said "I'm in way over my head" I would have told him to put my model on the back burner.

But he didn't. He said it was done and that he was going to ship it.

How hard is that to do.

When my father died I had to drive to PA for the funeral, but I used the time before we left to finish and pack up a few things so I could get them to the PO.

I could have emailed the people and said "Hey my dad passed away I'll mail your stuff when I get back" but I didn't.

It's all about work ethic and I don't think Steve's is very solid.

He's loaded with talent but that only gets you so far.

 

[juno]

God, I've read three pages of this stuff and I just can't believe it. And rather than post the usual "I don't have a dog in this fight" disclaimer, I believe that everyone is affected when this kind of behavior is allowed to continue.

I think if most of us purchased an item for even $20 from a catalog and saw the same behavior as seems to be accepted in this community, we'd be mad as hell.

Case in point: the brow-beating of Master Replicas when the quality is bad or the service sucks.

It blows my mind that someone can post something like: it took him two years to deliver, and he wasn't very communicative, but he's still a great guy so I'd do business with him.

IMHO, when you take money for something, it doesn't matter if it's a hobby or not, you just made a BUSINESS transaction. Nowhere in this thread has SWP said he was offering these items at cost.

I can understand where waiting is involved with many projects -- especially those that are done as a commissioned work or as a kit build up. But again, it isn't difficult to send an update.

Boba Debt's posts weren't rude or flaming. He's not saying Steve isn't a nice guy, he's saying Steve didn't deliver. For anyone to side with SWP on this is just plain crazy (and I have some stuff I'd just LOVE to sell you, can't guarantee a delivery date though).

Ever since I've been on the RPF I've noticed a trend of second, third, and fourth chances. Wasn't it '03 or 04 that Wrapofcons performed his / her first "take-the-money-and-run" act? Yet it happens all over again. Why? Because this place is a community of relatively nice people with a tendency to forgive. While this makes it a great place to hang around, it also makes the place ripe for a professional scammer to come in and clean house with a well-presented project. The only way to prevent this is to protect those who are victimized.

I think there should be zero tolerance for those who fail to come through for multiple customers.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Very well put, Juno. I am of the mind that if I can deliver money when it is supposed to be there, and have bought a couple of things from the fine crafters here, then my product should be shipped in just as timely a fashion. You are right that there seems to be a lot of this going on lately.

Sorry, if you take that long to deliver, then maybe you are in the wrong business. That is what it comes down to, when you decide to sell the things you have crafted here, you are now in business. We all know that in the world of business, the customer doesn't much care that your dog is sick or what have you, they only care about the end product...period. We are all an online community of friends here, but we forget that once we start selling or buying, we set the "friend" aside and become Buyer and Seller. We fail to make that line between friendship and business completely clear.

Not every seller is guilty of that, as some are all about business when business is called upon. If you, as a seller, cannot do that, then maybe it is the wrong business for you. Just a thought, and sorry to echo Juno, but she rang so true.

 

[JP05]

OldKen...lock this thread? Why? Because someone got called a name?

No. This is an important thread.

Its shows the importance of communication.

SWP: I know him. I have spoken with him on the phone, exchanged emails etc.

Did he deserve what was said? Not my call.

Did he drop the ball on the deal? Yeah.

And that ball could have been picked up by communication.

All will work out in the end, and hopefully the IMPORTANCE of just dropping a quick one or two sentence email or PM will be understood by ALL who deal on this board.

Steve

 

[saintg]

Well, I wanted to add this before the thread gets locked. I have a few of Steve's kits and recieved all of them within a few weeks. The casting on all of them look fantastic and I eagerly await anything else that Steve makes/casts. Honestly I can't relate to what is being said here. Well, just my 2 cents.

George

www.tmeslipcreations.com

 

[DrStranglove]

<div class='quotetop'>(swpropmaker @ Sep 4 2006, 03:22 AM) [snapback]1312614[/snapback]</div>

Where I screwed up is I never followed through with what I said I was going to do and if you call that Lieing so be it. I conceed.
[/b]

Yes. This is lying.

You lied to him. Plain and simple. Anyone who is mad at me for calling you a liar either has not been victimized in this hobby (yet) or is a cause of the problem. IE Condoning seller misdeeds.

You screwed up. You admit it. You HAD TO BE OUTED HERE TO EVEN THINK ABOUT MAKING IT RIGHT.

Tell me, if David had not outed you would he have gotten his kit this month or would you simply have said, "I'll take it to the PO tomorrow?" (Again.) Because obviously NOT outing you last month got all kinds of results.

And I do agree that members should speak to each other in a respectful manner. And I should follow that rule. I am just tired of seeing people like SWP get away with it.


Oh and it is not “slander” as you so put it. In print it is libel. (Didn’t you see Spiderman??)

 

[swpropmaker]

"when you take money for something, it doesn't matter if it's a hobby or not, you just made a BUSINESS transaction."

Never took a red cent from David. So the whole "mail fraud crime" is out as some of the legal Eagle attorneys here have tried to acuse me of. Trade's in kind are very diffferent transaction than a cash sale. Considering I never recieved anything as part of the trade the only crime I commited is lack of communication and missed deadlinesand thats just poor practice, nothing I'm going to jail over.

"It blows my mind that someone can post something like: it took him two years to deliver"


Out of the 2 Years everyone keeps throwing up there I'll let you know, I had not said anything so far but I got to. I was deployed 14 months of those. 7 of which were combat related. If you have noticed in this thread I have not made or used any excuses to plead my case. I'm standing here taking it on the chin and a few crotch shots too. This is getting out of hand. It took 4 months to get the thing, 14 months deployed out of country with the military in wonderful laces like Kosovo, South America and Iraq. I screwed up. I took on to much. I have good intentions but got overwhelmed. I appreciate the constructive criticism some RPFers have offered. It's not fun to read but if it helps i'm all for it.

Some of you are jumping on to show your solidarity to Boba Debt which is cool. The problem I see is if you have not done business with me and I feel you should keep your two cents to yourself. This thread does not need any more "Yeah burn him anyway" insight the riot postings.

Some of you well educated members have decided to go get hotmail acounts and drop me a few nasty emails on my personal Email account so the Mods here cant trace you. Very clever in that you cancel the account so I cant respond. What? Are some of you still in Jr High? I will contacted Hotmail to see if I can trace the source. Whoever liarliar@hotmail.com is I will have some choice words with if I find out its someone here.

What makes this behavior any better than what I did? They did away with public lynching years ago. Yet I have swung on the rope dead, dead, dead for almost two days. Standing up is what I thought I should do but now I see why others retreat and you never hear from them again. So not only no communication, no product ever. I think some of you just like seeing folks hurt. In Iraq we called them "lookee Loo's after an IED attack folks would gather around to see the carnage. Some of you enjoy the "carnage" of threads like this. Like Sharks to bloody water.

I've posted a picture of the model that I have held hostage for so long and will ship it on Tuesday. There is nothing more I can do or say. If you dont want to do buisness with me FINE. If you still want what I do even better. Other than that what else is there?

I have sent a few PM's to folks on this thread that have mentioned dissatisfaction with product I had made years ago. I hope they will PM me back and I can make it right. My phone number and address have not changed in 6 years. Ive never ran and hid on anything in life and I will not here. Most everyone I do buisness with has my number. In the past I used that as my communcation tool but see that its not the customers resposibility to contact me its vice versa. I have put steps in place to rectify that problem that has clearly been identifed here. Limited projects take one order at a time.

I also liquidated my entire collection last month. I think that had created problems with the buisness too. Trading for stuff sometimes took away from paying customers. My prop collecting was out of control. I had to have something i did nything to get it an obsession if you will. I was like a Crack Adict trying to be a Crack Dealer and I was using up all the product on my own. So now that I have focused my collecting to Studio Scale Star Wars only allows me to concertrate on things. So I had done this last moth knowing I had a problem. I should of shipped the darn thing when I said I was going to.

For the thousandth time I am sorry David for making you have to post this thread and treating your project like it was not important. Please show a bit of mercy here. The dogs have barked, the Lions have had their feast and I'm a wreck. I'll try to do better in the future using this as the ultimate learning event.

Thanks for the emails of support guys and I do understand why one would hesitate posting stuff here in fear of attack. I know most of you were taken care of but some of you were not especially David.

Tracking Numbers will be posted first thing Tuesday Morning.

I had to add this as I'm still getting the Liar accusations

In the world of Military Law Enforcement Lieing is by definition "willfully depart from the truth in an effort to deceive." I never departed from the truth. I was planning on shipping it but things came up. I’ve admitted failing in that department but the liar accusations are unfounded. Bad business practices, breaking a promise is what I did. I am not a liar. I had every intention of shipping. It was two guy’s bartering and I dropped the ball. I received no money or compensation for my labor by choice because of my failure. How many of the folks Ive been compared to do that?

I've showed pictures of the item.. What more do you guys want me to do? Ive been beaten down, clubbed, hanged, excecuted and drawn and quartered with no end in sight on this thread. Folks I dont even know or had anything to do with have chimed in.

I'm not going to run and hide, so if that what your trying to achieve your wasting your time.

I would ask for resolution here.

The problem has been addressed and I have stated publicly my failure and have identified the steps I'm taking to fix it.

I have shown photographic evidence that the item exists and I will mail it Tuesday.

Seriously what more do you want from me?

 

[Boba Debt]

<div class='quotetop'>(swpropmaker @ Sep 4 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1312741[/snapback]</div>

"when you take money for something, it doesn't matter if it's a hobby or not, you just made a BUSINESS transaction."

Standing up is what I thought I should do but now I see why others retreat and you never hear from them again. So not only no communication, no product ever.

[/b]

Steve, the only thing you can do now is follow through on your promise to ship my model.

Until I post that I have received it or until this thread is locked you will have to take your shots and bear it.

I did not want this to become a public lynching, I was hoping I was one of the few people you've disappointed but apparently there are others.

 

[JP05]

<div class='quotetop'>(swpropmaker @ Sep 4 2006, 11:30 AM) [snapback]1312741[/snapback]</div>

Some of you well educated members have decided to go get hotmail acounts and drop me a few nasty emails on my personal Email account so the Mods here cant trace you. Very clever in that you cancel the account so I cant respond. What? Are some of you still in Jr High? I will contacted Hotmail to see if I can trace the source. Whoever liarliar@hotmail.com is I will have some choice words with if I find out its someone here.

[/b]

Your kidding? Liarliar? I think this person may still be in gradeschool. Nice that we can show such maturity here.

 

[DrStranglove]

Damn, that is pretty low.

 

[ralphee]

Yeah the e mail thing is very pathetic, ive responded maybe unwisely to this thread maybe my mouth should have stayed shut, so whatever certain parties may think so be it, ive made my bed, As for stooping so low to send malicious mails, public stoning should be brought back for those involved.......lee

 

[Darth Kukiman]

Steve,

Take heart my brother, I wish all would be well and peaceful again for you, and for your "business clients" as well. And I still trust you.

Your friends are all here, though we are not vocal nor eloquent nor influential, but we are all here. Some of us may have already gotten your great piece of art, and some are still waiting for it with a friendly heart. But likewise, we know your strengths and your weaknesses when we first placed our bets on you, and we long for the day to receive the goods.

I know my limits in skills. I knew I can never come close to possess the magic, and Steve was proven to be one of the magicians, so I took the dive.

As for those hate mails, Steve, just let them go. Tracing them won't bring peace to your heart but more sufferings. If you find in your heart to forgive him or them, the better you would feel already. What does it make you if you publicly lynching them afterwards?

I feel sorry for both BD (another magician whom gave me the ring, still beautiful to behold) and Steve. I only wish their conflict would end soon.

kk

 

[juno]

Why send malicious e-mails when you can post what you think publicly .

Pretty crappy.

That said, I would like to note the trends in threads like these:

1. Buyer posts that another member has failed to deliver
2. Seller posts an apologetic reply with one or more of the following reasons:
a. Overwhelmed
b. Family problems
c. Self problems
3. Some will chip in demonstrating that seller has done this many times
4. Others will chip in and say the seller's a great guy / gal and is just stressed
5. Seller becomes self-righteous at those who question their business practices
6. Repeat 1-5 until seller eventually cuts off all communication and is eventually banned

If you don't believe me, take a look at these threads:
http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=111312
"I am aware of all props that I hve outstanding, and am getting all of them out as soona s I am able, I have prop projetcs going on in 2 states now because of my job with allstate"
"I allways amazes me when stuff like this happens and is the major reason I dont go to the RPF anymore, the only people that seem to be concerned about my my buisness practices are you and a bunch of people that do not have any dealings with me."

http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=96604
"Well, the witch hunt is on I see. That's OK, I understand. I give no quarter and ask none so I expect this."
"I do not have any intentions of screwing anybody here. Believe what you will, let the bashing begin, whatever. I will deliver goods and be done with it. Those receiving can post when they get there items."

Will SWP be the one to break the trend? I don't know.

SWP: If you are serious about making good, get off this thread and make good. Once you've made good, if Boba Debt doesn't post about it, post it yourself. Continuing to come back to this thread and attempt to defend yourself just makes you look bad. As you stated, "I've posted a picture of the model that I have held hostage for so long and will ship it on Tuesday. There is nothing more I can do or say. If you dont want to do buisness with me FINE. If you still want what I do even better. Other than that what else is there?"

There's nothing left for you to do but finish up your orders. This thread has become less about you and more about situations like yours.

Now, let me give you an example of the way a problem like this SHOULD be handled:
http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=111068

That thread made me MORE likely to buy from Matsucorp rather than less.

 

[rocketeer25]

Excellent points, Juno. :thumbsup

I hope that email didn't come from one of our members. :angry Don't forget that the Prop Forum is viewable by the public, so it could be from someone on the outside.

As for this thread, lets please keep the conversation civil. When deals go bad, it is easy for tempers to flare up and people to lose their cool. I think BD has done a great job of bringing this issue to the public's attention. He's stated his case calmly and cooly. It's some of the other comments that have been over the top. :unsure

Sometimes, these "call-out" threads are necessary to get the attention of dealers who've hit a rough patch. We've all known dealers who've seen threads like this and have disappeared. They go and hide or try and sell their stuff in other places. We've also seen dealers who see the light and take the necessary steps to right the ship and take care of their customers. It's how the dealers decide to react that makes all the difference. IMO, his fate and reputation lie squarely in his own hands. Hopefully Steve will follow-up on his commitment to get some help returning emails and shipping stuff out.

I'd recommend anyone that has received unusable parts from Steve to contact him and see about getting replacements.

As for this particular issue, Steve has chimed in here and has promised to ship the item tomorrow. We'll all be looking for that tracking number.

 

[Jedi Bailinkski]

SWP

I still trust you, and will continue to deal with you. I look forward to the coming project we have spoken about. Chin up.

George

 

[moffeaton]

I'd like to chime in also, as someone who has received kits from Steve, free parts/help from Steve, and am still waiting for things from Steve. In my case, and I'd like to clarify that I only speak for my deals, and not BD's or anyone elses. I have experienced delays, but always with a phone conversation and the understanding that I would get my stuff. More importantly in my case, I have always told him "no rush" because frankly, I have a basement full of stuff to build in the meantime. Steve has always been full of the best intentions, and I have never been given a reason to doubt his word. Again - from my experiences.

I have paid for kits, and I have received them. Sometimes under the timetable he specified, but sometimes delayed - and when they were delayed, I just called him up and he apologized, didn't make excuses, and explained the situation. Sometimes he employs other molders and casters, and is then at their mercy. Sometimes he is called away to defend our country or help natural disaster victims, and I can understand how that disruption in life can delay a hobby. He also has a family, and I'd hate to have someone put resin before children. So again - I've always told him "take your time"... and even when it took a longer time than he quoted, he's never deceived me. Just my experiences.

Heck, one time we were just chatting and I told him I was building a model, and was wondering if he knew where I could find a part or two, and he not only ID'ed them from me, he sent me a couple casts. Most importantly after reading this thread, I can honestly say that I have no doubt I'll get my hero TIE wings from him, because he said I would. I believe him. There have been a lot of delays with those parts, and again, a simple phone call and I knew all about the finicky mold and backlog. No sweat. It's not like he's sipping a margarita by the pool, chuckling at the dopes on the rpf, you know?

Threads like this can be really dangerous to reputations. I hope we can all walk away from this thread with cool heads, and I hope Dave gets a satisfying resolution - in my opinion he will. I really don't want to see Steve give up on something he has a tremendous talent in, and if he feels he needs to hand some duties over to someone else, I hope the transition goes well and that it means smoother sailing from here on out.

 

[Apollo]

<div class='quotetop'>(juno @ Sep 4 2006, 01:13 PM) [snapback]1312788[/snapback]</div>

That said, I would like to note the trends in threads like these:

1. Buyer posts that another member has failed to deliver
2. Seller posts an apologetic reply with one or more of the following reasons:
a. Overwhelmed
b. Family problems
c. Self problems
3. Some will chip in demonstrating that seller has done this many times
4. Others will chip in and say the seller's a great guy / gal and is just stressed
5. Seller becomes self-righteous at those who question their business practices
6. Repeat 1-5 until seller eventually cuts off all communication and is eventually banned
[/b]

You mean you have noticed this Pattern too? :lol

Whenever one of these threads come up, I expect you to cut and paste this post Juno.

 

[OldKen]

heres the only prob with what you said juno (yes, you made some very valid points in trends) but when a thread pops up to let a prop maker know that you are getting tired of waiting turns into a namecalling lynchmob flamefestival...

its kinda pointless, unless the point of said thread is to get said propmaker to leave the community capiche?

give the guy a minute, just because there has been a noticeable pattern with bad transactions, doesnt meant that the man hasnt fell on hard times...

hes not jeff parks for F's sake.

hes built up a HUGE model, and im sure when you have a sick WIFE, that models just fall to the wayside,

now did he do the best thing buisness wise, by not running out to his garage dropping everything in his life to carefully package this huge item and run down to the post office and send it ASAP???

no.

but as far as i can tell, he is a human being, that doesnt deserve to get lynched and his buisness destroyed over a trade transaction...

i mean, did i miss something?

wasnt it a trade thing?

i mean, what have you sent him BD???

are you waiting to get whats yours before you even begin on his blaster?

just curious, cause i think if all of his personal buisness is being laid on the table then ALL of the facts should be.

now, i understand when someone promises something and then doesnt come through its very annoying, and can cause your temper to flair... im just not sure if this public hanging was all that nescessary

basically if these things CAN be avoided... then they should.

i deffinately dont want to step on your toes boba debt, you are a well known and respected guy in this community, but ask yourself if you had an ailing wife, and a project to finish for a trade deal in which you hadnt recieved your half, how high on the priority list would the frickin PD modle REALLY be to you?

and BTW i dont apprectiate being made out to be a sissy by trying to keep my nose out of others buisness, and this RETORT is purely driven by that...

so yay childishness... :unsure

 

[Boba Debt]

<div class='quotetop'>(oldken @ Sep 4 2006, 11:59 PM) [snapback]1312965[/snapback]</div>

i mean, did i miss something?

wasnt it a trade thing?

i mean, what have you sent him BD???

[/b]

Yes, you missed a lot

1. I originally offered to pay him to do it, but he offered to do the trade and I accepted

2. He never sent the parts and if he had I would have built his blaster and sent it to him in a timely manner

3. He felt so bad and he could not get the parts so he decided that I did not have to do the build for him, I offered to pay him and he declined, he also declined my offer to pay for the shipping.

Now, if you had read this entire thread I would not have had to explain it to you and you would not have to pull your foot out of your mouth to apologize to me.

 

[OldKen]

wow, :unsure

no, i read it...

so hes not making you pay for shipping or anything, and your still complaining that his real life probs are getting in the way of your PD display or somethin? :unsure

wtf man?

your actin like he just ran over your dog or something. :confused

so basically he was trying to hook you up, but because he has family issues THAT COME BEFORE PROPS, your going to publically burn him at the stake?

now im even more confused. :confused

i do apologise for saying anything, cause i realise that you are focused on one thing... getting exactly what was said when was said, you arent open to any excuses or reasoning, you were told you were getting your PD at a certain time, you didnt. my ONLY point, is that maybe JUST MAYBE, that the guy does have very serious REAL LIFE ISSUES that are prohibiting him from getting the PD to you in a timely "as promised" manner...

but appearently you either think he is lying about his situation, or just dont think that family matters should come before the bond of a mans word...

got it, im out.

hope it works out for the both of you.

:angel