vintageslant
Active Member
Oh come on was that really what you wanted to type! :lol
STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
Nice prequel joke there. Although I would argue that the six-legged arena beast in Attack of the Clones and a couple of Clone Troopers in Revenge of the Sith guarding the Jedi Temple won't be telling any tales.
Well we don't really know where Ahsoka went after she left the Jedi. If she was far out in the Outer Rim she may have not heard anything for a while. So she would most likely assume Anakin was killed as well. It would be interesting if she was around Vader because I'm guessing she would sense something about him was familiar, if she didn't sense that it was Anakin. I think most people know he's a former Jedi though.
Ever since the CW, I have contended Ahsoka is far too a beloved character and a strong female character to boot, that she will never be killed off. She can appear in various forms of media and merchandise and is far too valuable.
Solo4114
Master Member
This actually leads me to wonder what's going to happen to Kanan and Ezra, especially since Yoda is apparently in contact with them through the Force. Surely Yoda would've mentioned them to Luke when training him. The only other option I can see is that they give up their Jedi powers somehow so that Yoda's "Last of the Jedi will you be" thing isn't false after all. Or maybe his attitude is "Whatevs. Padawans they are, and not fully trained Jedi like Luke." Or something. Otherwise...I think our heroes are doomed to die.
I think working to be affiliated with any group of Force Users is overrated. Why do you need a title to do what you want to do? I remember in the original Clone Wars series how Dooku berrated Asajj Ventress how she was no Sith despite having all the qualifications of being one. You've got dark robes, Sith markings, red lightsabers, abilities that the Sith use and you hate the Jedi with a vengeance... But you are no Sith.
It's just annoying.
Maybe she went to find Lux. But I hope there will be some kind of flashback or explanation in the near future.
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Riceball
Master Member
I agree, the Sith are always supposed to be only 2 yet we're always seeing all of these Force using people in the employment of the Emperor and his cronies yet none of them are Sith. Given how powerful some of these non-Sith are I don't see why they need to be called Darth whatever.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Sith are Sith and Jedi are Jedi because of they followed a strict and demanding training program. The training is based on thousands of years of gained knowledge pasted on from Jedi to Jedi or Sith to Sith.
Someone like Ventress is like have a person who has gone through medial training like EMT, Nursing, etc.. and then buys a lab coat and calls themselves a doctor. Sure they have a stethoscope, a little hammer, and some tongue depressors, but they are no doctor.
Now there could always be something like a Jedi who believed the way of the Jedi was not the best way and not the dark side either. They could come develop their own teachings that reflected their beliefs. Much like how the Lutherans developed from Catholicism. Or the way Edward William Barton-Wright studied jujutsu in Japan and creates Bartitsu upon returning to England.
Someone like Ventress is like have a person who has gone through medial training like EMT, Nursing, etc.. and then buys a lab coat and calls themselves a doctor. Sure they have a stethoscope, a little hammer, and some tongue depressors, but they are no doctor.
Now there could always be something like a Jedi who believed the way of the Jedi was not the best way and not the dark side either. They could come develop their own teachings that reflected their beliefs. Much like how the Lutherans developed from Catholicism. Or the way Edward William Barton-Wright studied jujutsu in Japan and creates Bartitsu upon returning to England.
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I think it is a combination of:
a. They are off fighting side battles.
b. The writers not thinking everything through.
Also, was Lucas still in charge when the show was being set up? Maybe he was having another bout of revisionism. Which seems to be an actual word.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
They are aware of what has been said in the movies. We just need to see how things play out.
As far as I know, Lucas had nothing to do with Rebels. If I understand correctly, when Disney took over, they shutdown Clone Wars because that show was flushing out the prequels, an area that Disney was not in their future plans, The wanted to do a show that would help support their new projects and Rebels was developed out of that need.
As far as I know, Lucas had nothing to do with Rebels. If I understand correctly, when Disney took over, they shutdown Clone Wars because that show was flushing out the prequels, an area that Disney was not in their future plans, The wanted to do a show that would help support their new projects and Rebels was developed out of that need.
I think it's as simple as turning away from the Jedi Code. If you're not wearing the uniform and following the club rules, you don't belong any more. *shrug*
As for the Sith... I never had any problem with that, actually. They spelled it out fairly early on in the Prequels. Mace specifically says Maul was a Sith Lord, and Yoda says always two there are, Master and Apprentice. The credo that got incorporated later sums up that relationship -- the Master to wield power, the Apprentice to crave it. Whenever the Apprentice could succeed in overthrowing the Master, they became the new Master. But either could and usually did have a stable of other apprentices (small 'a'), acolytes, disciples, etc., running around vying for promotion and trying to thwart their opponents. Maul was Palpatine's Apprentice. He got killed (killed, dammit!) and Palpatine replaced him with Dooku, then -- following his master plan -- replaced Dooku with his golden boy, Anakin. Bane did a smart thing with the Rule of Two. With all their energy directed inward -- all ultimately aspiring to the one lone Master Dark Lord slot -- it kept any number of would-be Sith Lords from trying to carve out their own little pocket empires.
In theory. We'll see eventually if any of those EU Sith Lords who carved out their own little pocket empires survive the appraisal and culling of the Story Group.
I get what you're saying here, but I gotta interject that, after so long, the Jedi are mainly focusing on not being Sith and the Sith are focusing on not being Jedi. To such a ridiculous extreme it's kinda sad.
--Jonah
As for the Sith... I never had any problem with that, actually. They spelled it out fairly early on in the Prequels. Mace specifically says Maul was a Sith Lord, and Yoda says always two there are, Master and Apprentice. The credo that got incorporated later sums up that relationship -- the Master to wield power, the Apprentice to crave it. Whenever the Apprentice could succeed in overthrowing the Master, they became the new Master. But either could and usually did have a stable of other apprentices (small 'a'), acolytes, disciples, etc., running around vying for promotion and trying to thwart their opponents. Maul was Palpatine's Apprentice. He got killed (killed, dammit!) and Palpatine replaced him with Dooku, then -- following his master plan -- replaced Dooku with his golden boy, Anakin. Bane did a smart thing with the Rule of Two. With all their energy directed inward -- all ultimately aspiring to the one lone Master Dark Lord slot -- it kept any number of would-be Sith Lords from trying to carve out their own little pocket empires.
In theory. We'll see eventually if any of those EU Sith Lords who carved out their own little pocket empires survive the appraisal and culling of the Story Group.
I get what you're saying here, but I gotta interject that, after so long, the Jedi are mainly focusing on not being Sith and the Sith are focusing on not being Jedi. To such a ridiculous extreme it's kinda sad.
--Jonah
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I don't see that at all. I see the Sith staying on target of their beliefs. However the Jedi have strayed over time. Not sure if it was something recent but I would be willing to guess it was a slow modification over a hundred or so years. I think they go complacent with there powers and their mission and let themselves become to political and in the end, tools that led to their own defeat.
The main problem for the Jedi was that it seems like if a Jedi became aware of this corruption, they left themselves open to the Darkside as a way of fighting against the corruption. I some cases, the jedi created their own enemy (Bariss and Dooku for example). Ashoka took another path. I wonder if anyone else did. If I remember correctly, Dooku left with a group of Jedi but there is no canon word on what happened to those Jedi.
The main problem for the Jedi was that it seems like if a Jedi became aware of this corruption, they left themselves open to the Darkside as a way of fighting against the corruption. I some cases, the jedi created their own enemy (Bariss and Dooku for example). Ashoka took another path. I wonder if anyone else did. If I remember correctly, Dooku left with a group of Jedi but there is no canon word on what happened to those Jedi.
Well, depending on how much of the ancient EU gets re-incorporated versus utterly purged (I'm still hopeful for the distant past staying relevant, partly due to the large amount of intervening time allowing plenty of room to smooth over any continuity issues, and partly because Dartth Bane made it into the Clone Wars series)...
The original Sith species partly metabolized the Force and held sway over a comfortably-sized chunk of space on the back side of a remote nebula that there were no charts to navigate past. The Jedi had been dinking around in the Old Republic for a while, had gotten in good with the Republic government to the point that they'd moved their HQ from Ossus to Coruscant. Then there was the first Jedi Schism, when a group of Jedi dabbling into Things Unnatural™ you-can't-fire-me-I-quit from the Order and eventually found the Sith.
Everything I see in the EU over the next few thousand years has been Sith emphasizing the things they do differently than the Jedi, and the Jedi emphasizing the things they do differently from the Sith. By the time we get to the Prequels, the Sith wallow in sensualism and emotion and generally seem to like rubbing the Jedi's face in it, while the Jedi have eschewed emotion and attachment to such an extreme that it's unhealthy and unsustainable in its own right -- and largely out of fear (but don't tell them it's fear) that they might be tempted to the Dark Side. There's a lovely aphorism that sums up the pointlessness of both sides' philosophies: "What you resist, persists." The harder you push on a wall, the more counterforce is pushing back against your hand (unless you're strong enough to overcome the structural integrity of the wall, but that's another matter...).
Qui-Gon seems more and more like a throwback to the Old Republic Jedi, who weren't afraid to feel and experience the universe and understood that the balance of the Force was something each individual Jedi had to find for themselves.
Besides him, I see that "another path" you mention being a probable plot for the upcoming Ventress/Vos novel, which I'm rather looking forward to.
--Jonah
The original Sith species partly metabolized the Force and held sway over a comfortably-sized chunk of space on the back side of a remote nebula that there were no charts to navigate past. The Jedi had been dinking around in the Old Republic for a while, had gotten in good with the Republic government to the point that they'd moved their HQ from Ossus to Coruscant. Then there was the first Jedi Schism, when a group of Jedi dabbling into Things Unnatural™ you-can't-fire-me-I-quit from the Order and eventually found the Sith.
Everything I see in the EU over the next few thousand years has been Sith emphasizing the things they do differently than the Jedi, and the Jedi emphasizing the things they do differently from the Sith. By the time we get to the Prequels, the Sith wallow in sensualism and emotion and generally seem to like rubbing the Jedi's face in it, while the Jedi have eschewed emotion and attachment to such an extreme that it's unhealthy and unsustainable in its own right -- and largely out of fear (but don't tell them it's fear) that they might be tempted to the Dark Side. There's a lovely aphorism that sums up the pointlessness of both sides' philosophies: "What you resist, persists." The harder you push on a wall, the more counterforce is pushing back against your hand (unless you're strong enough to overcome the structural integrity of the wall, but that's another matter...).
Qui-Gon seems more and more like a throwback to the Old Republic Jedi, who weren't afraid to feel and experience the universe and understood that the balance of the Force was something each individual Jedi had to find for themselves.
Besides him, I see that "another path" you mention being a probable plot for the upcoming Ventress/Vos novel, which I'm rather looking forward to.
--Jonah
Let's see that knowledge and code in action.
"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."
Because if your wisdom can apply to anything, why shouldn't it fix everything?
Jolee Bindo.
I'm really going to miss him.
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I'm not sure, but I don't think anything was ever fleshed out about the Lost Twenty. They were the twenty Jedi who voluntarily left the order over differences, and have their busts in the Jedi Library. There were also things written about the old EU basically just saying an unspecified number of Jedi left when the Jedi decided to become generals in the war. So they're out there. I also seem to remember someone at Lucasfilm, maybe Leland Chee or Pablo Hidalgo, saying an exact number of Jedi believed to have escaped Order 66. At least as of ROTS. So I guess now Yoda is in that "from a certain point of view" territory in his "Last of the Jedi will you be" speech. I guess now we have to take that as Yoda meaning that since he and Obi Wan were training Luke, that Luke is the last official Jedi.
Kyle Katarn
They most definitely shouldn't be called "Darth".
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Victor3
Sr Member
Or chronologically the last Jedi. There might be others out there, but Luke will be the last to be trained by official members of the old Jedi Order.
His next line is to "Pass on what you have learned." So he might not have really been saying "You're the last one, anywhere." But "You'll be the last officially trained Jedi (fast track, not-withstanding), it's your job to pass it on and keep the Jedi going. Oh, and BTW, your sister should be your first student."
Retcon, ftw!
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