STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

They most definitely shouldn't be called "Darth".

I certainly wasn't suggesting that, by saying that I didn't see why they'd need to be called Darth has to do with the fact that these acolytes/apprentices or whatevers are Sith in everything but in name so it really doesn't matter if they get a name starting with Darth or not. At the same time I can certainly see why one of these non-Darth Sith would want the title of Darth, it would be a confirmation of all they've done and their abilities and skills, sort of like earning a black belt in a martial art. Still, at the end of the day it's only a name but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . .
 
I certainly wasn't suggesting that, by saying that I didn't see why they'd need to be called Darth has to do with the fact that these acolytes/apprentices or whatevers are Sith in everything but in name so it really doesn't matter if they get a name starting with Darth or not. At the same time I can certainly see why one of these non-Darth Sith would want the title of Darth, it would be a confirmation of all they've done and their abilities and skills, sort of like earning a black belt in a martial art. Still, at the end of the day it's only a name but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . .

Yeah totally, Duck Vader :lol :lol I was agreeing with you by the way :)
 
Yeah totally, Duck Vader :lol :lol

You're desthpicable! :lol

6ppsGTX.jpg
 
We constantly bring up what Yoda said to Luke in regards to how many jedi are left. We have been assuming that Yoda said Luke was the only one. But what yoda actually said was:

...the last of the Jedi will you be.

not "the last jedi".

When Yoda Refers to Jedi, he could be referring to the last group of remaining Jedi.
 
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i have this debate with all my friends, yoda telling luke hes the last of the jedi. we all have to realize that lucas had no idea of what the prequels were going to be like, and if they were every going to happen at that time. heck i dont believe lucas even knew what jedi looked like in the prequels, hence uncle owen and obiwan almost looking alike.. even wuher the cantina bar tender looked dressed in a semi jedi attire

now all these star wars storys have to "blend" into the old trilogy, that is until someone starts editing the films dialog... thats all we need next, every one dubbed over like fett..

i take this new rebels series 2 ways

way 1: kanan and ezra along with ashoka end up dead before rotj

way 2: kanan, ezra and ashoka never pasted the trails from the jedi council, meaning they are not jedi and just real strong force wielders. luke was trained by yoda and obiwan, 2 of the remaining jedi council members, and by that granted the title of the last jedi

i came up with way 2 to ease my mind if the rebels crew survives... i am still very interested in where this story is going to go, and how long (in canon time) it will continue
 
We constantly bring up what Yoda said to Luke in regards to how many jedi are left. We have been assuming that Yoda said Luke was the only one. But what yoda actually said was:



not "the last jedi".

When Yoda Refers to Jedi, he could be referring to the last group of remaining Jedi.

It doesn't matter what Lucas meant when he wrote it. The fact is that the wording is vague and therefore it would tend to allow for other surviving jedi.

Actually, it's not quite as ambiguous as all of that.

You have to look at Yoda's full statement to Luke. He tells him to pass on what he has learned. Why? Because he says "When gone am I, last of the Jedi will you be."

"When gone am I" is the real key here and why people interpret the statement as meaning the "last remaining Jedi."

If we assume that the statement is meant to suggest that Luke is the last in the sequential order of Jedi trained, then the statement still doesn't make sense because Yoda himself was trained way before the vast bulk of the Jedi around the fall of the Republic. The implication of his statement, if meant that way, would be that Yoda was the last trained before Luke, and now Luke is the last trained when Yoda dies. Logically, it just doesn't make sense. Even if we ignore the prequels and Rebels entirely, it still doesn't make sense within the OT framework where we have literally three Jedi total. Why? Because Obi-Wan would've been the "second to last" of the Jedi. Yoda's death would have no impact on the sequence of Jedi training. Logically, the only reason Yoda's death matters is if Luke is the last remaining Jedi.


Now, this still leaves room for ambiguity, but I think the ambiguity only works in terms of the definition of "Jedi" within the statement. In other words, Luke could be the last fully trained Jedi. Or the last actively practicing Jedi. Or Yoda could've meant "Last of the Jedi who will actually have a chance at winning and restoring peace and justice to the Galaxy, which is their job anyway, so I'm not mentioning all those other guys hiding in Dark Side hotspots." Or maybe just "our last Jedi hope."

Personally, I think it only really makes sense, especially given the context of Clone Wars and Rebels being kids shows, if characters like Asokha, Kanan, and Ezra end up "renouncing" their Jedi ways and going into hiding, or being viewed as "merely Padawans who never made the leap to full Jedi." But basically, I don't think Luke being the last remaining Jedi is up for much debate, except insofar as "what constitutes a 'Jedi', then?"


Or we just accept that Yoda was wrong or he just flat-out lied to Luke. "Pep talk, you needed. Liberties with the truth, I took. Get over it, you should."
 
...If we assume that the statement is meant to suggest that Luke is the last in the sequential order of Jedi trained, then...

No, no, no. Not what I said. I did not say anything about seniority, or ranking, or etc... Just since Jedi is also the plural of Jedi, Luke was now part of that group considered "the last of the Jedi".

Sequential order has nothing to do with who can train people. It is every Jedi's responsibility to train (take on a padawan) future Jedi. Look at Obi Wan, a few minutes after he became a Jedi Knight, he had a padawan,

All Yoda is saying is something like this: "Hey Luke, I'm about to die and I cannot train Jedi anymore. It is important for the survival of our order that as the last of the Jedi, you know, you and a few others, that you guys pass on your knowledge so others may also become Jedi."

Now... what I am trying to say here is that the wording allows for other Jedi to exist that Yoda knows about. I am not saying that what I proposed is fact in the Star Wars universe. Luke could at that time be the only person to be a full fledged Jedi Knight. Also remember that even if Kanan and Ahsoka are still alive, neither of them made it officially to the Status of Jedi Knight. Ashoka walked away and Kanan was a padawan during Order 66. At times, the term Jedi is used the same as Jedi Knight. Luke has gone through all his training and even when Yoda is about to die, he tells him that he is not yet a Jedi even though Luke has been openly using the title.
 
As I see it, there's basically 2 ways to look at Yoda's statement about the last of the Jedi. Both involve not taking Yoda literally and assume that he's speaking figuratively.

One theory, my personal theory, is that what Yoda means is that Luke will be the last of the Jedi . . . that he knows of. The way I always saw it was that while Yoda believes himself to be the last of the Jedi he really doesn't know that for certain but he's clearly a glass half empty kind of being. Not to mention that it just sounds a lot more heavy when you tell someone that when you're gone they'll be the last of the Jedi as opposed the last of the Jedi, that I know of.

The other theory, the one being proposed by MJF, is that Yoda is being very literal in speaking figuratively. By last of the Jedi he means the last good Force user that has been given the title of Jedi (Knight) by the council. Kanan, Ezra, & Ahsoka don't count because none of them were ever officially made Jedi; Asohka walked out before that happened, Order 66 happened before Kanan could get "knighted", and in Ezra's case there was no longer a council to officially declare him a Jedi.
 
The way I see it, for all Yoda knows, Luke is the last of the Jedi. A galaxy, especially the SW galaxy, is an exponentially huge place, there is no effing way he could have known how many Jedi, whatever your definition may be of that, in the entirety of the galaxy. I mean, come on, he's powerful, but not that powerful.
 
The way I see it, for all Yoda knows, Luke is the last of the Jedi. A galaxy, especially the SW galaxy, is an exponentially huge place, there is no effing way he could have known how many Jedi, whatever your definition may be of that, in the entirety of the galaxy. I mean, come on, he's powerful, but not that powerful.

That's always been my theory. As I've said before, it's like Yoda brought a complete roster of every Jedi, Padawan, and Youngling there was before Order 66 with him to Dagobah then listened to/watched the galactic news every night and checked names off the list as he heard about everyone that's been killed or captured.
 
That's always been my theory. As I've said before, it's like Yoda brought a complete roster of every Jedi, Padawan, and Youngling there was before Order 66 with him to Dagobah then listened to/watched the galactic news every night and checked names off the list as he heard about everyone that's been killed or captured.

He did have a list but it's really hard to read in that hovel . That is why he wanted that lamp that he and R2 were fighting over so bad.
 
I always took what Yoda said to mean Luke was the last Jedi , period. No one else had any knowledge of the force and it was up to Luke to bring back the Jedi.

But what MJF has said made me think about what Obi Wan said to Luke. "Now the Jedi are all but extinct."
But extinct.... So does that mean Obi Wan knows there are other Jedi in hiding or was he referring to himself and Yoda?
 
I always took what Yoda said to mean Luke was the last Jedi , period. No one else had any knowledge of the force and it was up to Luke to bring back the Jedi.

I'm not saying that the original intent of the words when written weren't to mean exactly what they said. I'm just saying in the presence of new knowledge (i.e. story) that it can easily be worked around and explained to mean different things in a way that makes total sense and without making a liar out of the Jedi characters.
 
But what MJF has said made me think about what Obi Wan said to Luke. "Now the Jedi are all but extinct."
But extinct.... So does that mean Obi Wan knows there are other Jedi in hiding or was he referring to himself and Yoda?

In the context of the OT before The Clone Wars and Rebels came out, I'd say that the answer would be a definite yes. Now with The Clone Wars and Rebels it could be taken to mean that Obi-Wan is thinking of primarily himself and Yoda but doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of a few others that might have survived Oder 66 and the subsequent campaign against them but Yoda and himself are the only ones that he can really account for.
 
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As written in ESB/ROTJ it meant there wasn't anyone else period.

Today, it means whatever LF decides they want it to be going forward. George gave them all the leeway you could want with the way he explained things in the prequels.
 
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