Which was a reference to Leia, she was the other.
STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!
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Which was a reference to Leia, she was the other.
Wait, I'm confused. If the line of dialogue was foreshadowing Leia as Luke's sister how do we infer it also implies there are others beyond that? It not vague.
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cboath
Master Member
Yeah, the it was clearly a reference to leia.
However, i can see how others could be out there, though. Are we also to infer that from his mud hutt on dagobah that Yoda can reach out and detect every single force capable person in the entire galaxy? A galaxy is billions of planets. I'd venture he's not that strong with the force.
However, i can see how others could be out there, though. Are we also to infer that from his mud hutt on dagobah that Yoda can reach out and detect every single force capable person in the entire galaxy? A galaxy is billions of planets. I'd venture he's not that strong with the force.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
The last hope, there is another lines, does not automatically mean that Luke, and if not him, Leia are the only potential jedi. It could mean that only a child of Anakin can defeat him or that it is someone they can locate.
Remember that Kanan is invisible to Yoda for some time, this would seem to indicate using the force is a important factor in knowing if anyone is out there. So if there are a lot more jedi or padawans staying under the radar... Well then.. They are under the radar. Sort of like using messenger, to be detected online, you need to be online. Don't think jedi have "set away" button.
Another thing about yoda's detection of Kanan, it happened in a jedi temple. Could the temple act as an amplifier/conduit? I say maybe.
Additionally, the Jedi had stated in the prequels that there control of the force had been deteriorating. Since things for the Jedi have only gotten worse, could Yoda's abilities kept decreasing over time? And does his increased age factor in in as well. Once again, I say maybe. If so, then it would be really hard for Yoda to know of other jedi by the time of The Empire Strikes Back. I also feel obi wan is limited of what he knows of the living universe. I would speculate he is only able to appear in places where he has very strong person ties like where Luke and Yoda are.
After all, individuals strong with the force were being born all the time. Although there is some reference in Rebels to hunting children down it is not part of the tasking of the inquisitor till 4-5 YBANH. So there is no way the empire has the resources to scour the complete Galaxy finding potential jedi trainees and wipe them out in 5-8 years. Especially when you consider that the Rebellion has been a new priority.
Remember that Kanan is invisible to Yoda for some time, this would seem to indicate using the force is a important factor in knowing if anyone is out there. So if there are a lot more jedi or padawans staying under the radar... Well then.. They are under the radar. Sort of like using messenger, to be detected online, you need to be online. Don't think jedi have "set away" button.
Another thing about yoda's detection of Kanan, it happened in a jedi temple. Could the temple act as an amplifier/conduit? I say maybe.
Additionally, the Jedi had stated in the prequels that there control of the force had been deteriorating. Since things for the Jedi have only gotten worse, could Yoda's abilities kept decreasing over time? And does his increased age factor in in as well. Once again, I say maybe. If so, then it would be really hard for Yoda to know of other jedi by the time of The Empire Strikes Back. I also feel obi wan is limited of what he knows of the living universe. I would speculate he is only able to appear in places where he has very strong person ties like where Luke and Yoda are.
After all, individuals strong with the force were being born all the time. Although there is some reference in Rebels to hunting children down it is not part of the tasking of the inquisitor till 4-5 YBANH. So there is no way the empire has the resources to scour the complete Galaxy finding potential jedi trainees and wipe them out in 5-8 years. Especially when you consider that the Rebellion has been a new priority.
when did they say this?
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I'd to look up the exact wording but it was Attack of the Clones and Mace was suggesting to Yoda that they might need to inform the senate. I'll see if I can get the exact line.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Ok, here it is...
Windu: I think it is time we informed the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished.
Yoda: Only the Dark Lords of the Sith know of our weakness. If informed, the Senate is, multiply, our adversaries will.
(src: Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones)
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Right. There was a good scene in the Vader book where Obi Wan is listening to the news on Tatooine and hears the name Vader. Before that he assumes Vader died on Mustafar. Yoda can only tell what's going on by the limited ability he has to tap into the Force. I don't think the Force is like Cerebro in X-Men, he can't find all the Jedi just bits and pieces of info here and there. I think in Rebels he may have only detected Kanan and Ezra because it may have been a place where the Force was really strong.
Remember that Yoda in ROTS says the Dark Side is clouding their ability to use the Force. That could mean that Yoda couldn't sense all the Jedi that escaped and a lot of those were certainly hunted down by ANH. So again, it's true from a certain point of view.
dude i have watched that film over 100 times, i NEVER noticed that! thanks for pointing that out! this changes a few things now in my mind
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i always felt using the force was like using the internet like someone already suggested. i figured back then that if some one was using the force it could be felt from other force users, a force user is close with the force, and the force being inside every living thing you have connection with everyone. example tarkin blowing up the alderan and obiwan feeling everyone dying, same at the temple purge and yoda feeling it.
i also thought that if yoda or obiwan used the force vader and the emperor could feel it because they use the same internet.. example, the emperor telling vader there is a great disturbance in the force, skywalker. luke started to tap into the force much more and stronger and sent ripples which vader and the emperor could feel...
i always thought by yoda and obiwan not using the force they can stay hidden in the universe, as long as they were using large amounts. once luke came along, obiwan and yoda decide to use the " a new hope" plan and say screw it, vader will find us sooner or later time to crank up those mediclorians!! lol
i bet him being so close with the force could sense any other life form out there using the force... then again the dark side clouds everything.. this could be clearly ruled out with this example, ghost obiwan had to inform luke to go hunt down yoda, if yoda could communicate with every jedi, why didnt he just do it like he did kanan and ezra, i too believe being in the temple is a amplifier or a direct connection to force users...
i love this stuff!!!
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
if you are going to compare the using the force to ripples (which is a valid anology), then I think you have to factor in proximity as well. Imagine the Galaxy as huge lake. Someone does something with the force, it can be alike a pebble. The ripples only go so far. So even if luke is using the force one one planet, then Vader is not going to sense it on another planet. You blow up Alderaan, it's like its like a small meteorite crashing into the lake. The ripples will be larger and go a lot further. Obi Wan sensed the planet destruction but also remember that they were heading in that direction as well.
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cboath
Master Member
How did TWO sith lords diminish the ability all jedi had to use the force? You'd think it'd take a rather large effort if it was them causing the problem.
As for how far they can sense, if it was infinite or even a fairly good distance, you'd have thought that Darth and the emp would have tracked luke down post ESB PDQ. They wouldn't have to even look, just kick back in his mediation chamber, think about it, and poof! There he is....
As for how far they can sense, if it was infinite or even a fairly good distance, you'd have thought that Darth and the emp would have tracked luke down post ESB PDQ. They wouldn't have to even look, just kick back in his mediation chamber, think about it, and poof! There he is....
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
i think you have it backwards, it was the jedi's deminished use of the Force that allowed the Sith to go undetected for so long.
as far as why their abilities are deminished, I refer back to my earlier posts where I believe it has been something going on for a long time as the Jedi have strayed away from their true path and allowed themselves to become a political tool.
Then you have Anakin's son, whose Force powers are almost as immense as his own, it's like dropping a boulder in that lake. I think that's why the Emperor and Vader immediately felt Luke.
The almost complete power of the Dark Side is only being used by two people whereas there were 10,000 Jedi at the time of AOTC. So those two Sith Lords wield infinitely more power than the Jedi. That's how the Emperor beat Yoda, who has hundreds of years of practice, study, knowledge, etc. on him. There are other Force users, but I'm guessing they weren't using the same levels of Force power that a fully trained Jedi or Sith would use.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
If that were true, then the Sith would never had been defeated. There two system had been well established and there have always been a lot more Jedi. Or how did Obi kill Maul, Anakin kill Dooku, Obi defeat Anakin. Also remember that Mace had defeated Palpatine in their duel. So the math is not there to substantiate that claim. Now I believe the rule of two make Sith stronger in wilding the dark side than if their were more. However, the light side would tend to be utilized differently.
The reason why the Jedi were defeated was that they became too content and too political. They assumed that whatever they did was the best way without questioning it. A lot of what Palpatine started saying about the Jedi prior to order 66 to sway public opinion or to Anakin was somewhat true. That's the real rub. The Sith was able to exploit the weakness and in turn it was the Jedi who brought upon their own defeat. Remember, it was mentioned that Anakin's attitude as a padawans was indicative of many of the padawans those days. In the prequels, we see the Jedi making mistake after mistake, they fail to realize the Sith returned, they fail to understand the true nature of the chosen one, they allow Palpatine to use them as pawns to bring about the destruction of the republic and the rise of the empire. Even in the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi tell Luke he must kill vader and that there is no way to bring him back from the dark side and that there is no good left in him.
As far as vader and emperor feelling Luke as adistubance in the force. I don't think its like, he using the force and he is over that way. I think it is more like that Luke represents a pivotal factor in the empires future.
The reason why the Jedi were defeated was that they became too content and too political. They assumed that whatever they did was the best way without questioning it. A lot of what Palpatine started saying about the Jedi prior to order 66 to sway public opinion or to Anakin was somewhat true. That's the real rub. The Sith was able to exploit the weakness and in turn it was the Jedi who brought upon their own defeat. Remember, it was mentioned that Anakin's attitude as a padawans was indicative of many of the padawans those days. In the prequels, we see the Jedi making mistake after mistake, they fail to realize the Sith returned, they fail to understand the true nature of the chosen one, they allow Palpatine to use them as pawns to bring about the destruction of the republic and the rise of the empire. Even in the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi tell Luke he must kill vader and that there is no way to bring him back from the dark side and that there is no good left in him.
As far as vader and emperor feelling Luke as adistubance in the force. I don't think its like, he using the force and he is over that way. I think it is more like that Luke represents a pivotal factor in the empires future.
And yet fans still regard Yoda as the pinnacle of what makes an awesome Jedi. Why is that? Also, I want a source on that prophecy. I want to know what it says, where it came from, why it was worth preserving through the generations, why the Force being unbalanced is a detriment to the Jedi when no one appears hindered and more importantly, why was it a good idea to introduce at all? Every time someone brings up the prophecy I always think of two words. Citation needed.
At least the LEGO movie had the decency to have Vitruvius admit he made his 'chosen one' prophecy up.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Well I am a fan and I just told you Yoda has his flaws. Awesome is an opinion. Yes, he is a strong, powerful, and often wise jedi. I could call him awesome. That doesn't mean he is prone to mistakes. Jackie Robinson is one of the greatest baseball players of all time although from time to time he struck, grounded, and flew out. Still awesome in my opinion.. But if you ask me who are the best jedi, I would not base it on their ability to think and feel in order to give them a better understanding of the Galaxy. Those jedi would be Qui Gonn, Ahsoka, and Luke.
Qui because he did not except the council as the ultimate answer to questions, it was also Qui who was able to first communicate from beyond. Something that Yoda and Obi probably would not have figured out.
Ahsoka, technically not a jedi as she left the order, but it was that decision to leave the order that I put her on the list. She saw that the Jedi were not following the true path. Something Anakin saw as well but his insecurities led him to the Darkside. It took a lot of wisdom and courage for Ahsoka to walk away.
Luke was insightful enough to know that Vader could turn back to the light. a feeling in the force that even Vader and Yoda could not see. Becaise of this, Anakin fulfilled his final part of the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.
As stated above, the Jedi influence in using the force had deminished...that was the imbalance. Unfortunately the fix for the Jedi is sort of like a herd of cow with anthrax, you can't give them a pill, you got to wipe them out and start over.
Well the Sith never revealed themselves to the Jedi openly until Maul appeared since the two Sith Lord system was established. By that time the tide is unavoidably turning to the Dark Side so their power base is at full. I think it also has to do with how much power the Sith amassed and that may have made them more powerful as the balance shifted. Clearly it had a major effect on the Force because Yoda says so. Obi Wan killed Maul because Maul was overconfident and left himself open to attack. Anakin killed Dooku because Dooku was a new Sith Lord with only a few years Sith training. Either that or Anakin was simply a better duelist by the time of ROTS. I don't know. Vader lost to Obi Wan because he was also overconfident and attacked from an inferior position. As to Mace winning the duel, we won't really know that unless Lucas answers it. I tend to think that Sidious was playing possum. Maybe. Just my two cents.
Right. I think a lot of people don't give the story of how the Emperor took over enough credit. Even though it parallels some of how Hitler came to power, it really is a pretty masterful setup that he pulled off.
BTW, I finally got my 7yo. niece to watch ESB today and I totally forgot Yoda's line to Luke about "A long time have I watched..." speech to Luke. So Yoda is telling the audience he does have the ability to specifically keep track of a person through the Force.
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