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  1. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2017, 9:45 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #101

    It’s a joke from Mean Girls you heathens.
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    Nov 11, 2017, 9:54 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #102

    Darn these ads! They keep jumping me up to them and I keep forgetting why I logged in to this thread in the first place...

    I liked Rogue One, but I knew I was there to see the lead in story to A New Hope. But I don't think you can have Star Wars without having lightsabers and the Force.

    Otherwise, isn't it all just Star Trek?
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    Nov 11, 2017, 10:00 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #103

    SethS said: View Post
    Itís a joke from Mean Girls you heathens.
    Drat! Does this mean my MGIQ is exceptionally low? It's not my fault really, I've never seen that movie. And here I thought I was entering into some sort of really heavy debate about the English language that I didn't really want to get into.

    Thanks for the clarification @SethS ! I'm seriously so relieved.

    ARGH!! THESE ADS THOUGH!!!
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    Nov 12, 2017, 12:25 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #104

    The Wook said: View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. In order for someone to embrace the concept of SWIQ, they must believe that absolutes can exist, even in artistic mediums such as film. It all comes down to this question: Is Citizen Kane absolutely a better movie than Transformers 4: Revenge of the Fallen? The key word being, "absolutely". I say Citizen is absolutely a better film than Transformers 4: Revenge of the Fallen.
    By that reasoning, do you consider Citizen Kane to "absolutely" be a better movie than Star Wars?
  5. Inquisitor Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Nov 12, 2017, 1:57 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #105

    I think, first of all, everyone needs to agree on what is meant by "better". I can appreciate the cinematic importance of Citizen Kane. I can appreciate the way the narrative was constructed. I even like it to some degree. But given a choice, there are hundreds more movies I'd rather watch. *thinks* Any of the Bay-Formers films are not among them. But using such a catchall term as "better" I feel is kinda sloppy.

    doctorDWwho said: View Post
    The problem with "SWIQ", aside from sounding pretentious and exclusive, is that it's entirely subjective. Your opinion on what makes a good star wars movie could entirely differ from the next person. So, if they both know how many t tracks are on each lightsaber hilt, or the names of every known planet in the outer rim, what's the standard for which to measure their so called "SWIQ"?
    This is where I actually have some notion of where the "SWIQ" concept would come in. What I've pointed out and aspired to for over twenty years now, is the sort of storytelling that can be appreciated on many levels. Deep subtle nods that only really hardcore fans would get, complex themes that people of a philosophical bent would notice and appreciate, and superficial linear narrative and compelling action/dialogue/characters that casual moviegoers would appreciate. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a good example, IMO. There are a lot of things that only a life-long comic reader like me would pick up on, but they enrich the experience for me. They are not, however, essential to understand what's going on, so people less familiar with those elements aren't left in the dark. They can still follow the narrative, without the added layers of meaning.

    Star Wars had this right from the get-go, by building in backstory. The Jedi Knights, the Clone Wars, the Old Republic... There were hints being dropped all over the place to a complex history leading up to the present we were seeing. That added a lot more bandwidth to an otherwise very spare narrative. That richness is where I feel things sort of went awry with later offerings. I won't cite chapter and verse here. But what it comes down to, for me, is that two people can have very different opinions about what makes good Star Wars and both be right -- from a certain point of view. There are people who are fine with lightsaber duels and space battles and don't care about the "why" of it all. Others like having the layers of context, motivation, and history that can be gleaned from a well-constructed fictional universe. Just because they're responding to different levels doesn't make one more right than the other... But I'd argue that not having the depth there would make for bad Star Wars, as it could then only be enjoyed on a more superficial level.

    That's been my problem, to some degree, with all the Star Wars films, but to a much greater extent from RotJ on. The more I think about it, the more holes or problems I see. Do I still enjoy them? Yes. Could they have been better-crafted so as to avoid such things? Also yes. That was the point of my rewriting exercise. The advice one of my scriptwriting professors gave us was, "A lot of learning the craft means seeing what others have done before you. But there's a lot of s*** out there. If you ever find yourself being jolted out of the movie by what just happened, don't just sit there b****ing about it -- get a copy of the script and see if you can do better." So I undertook to see if I could write my way out of the corners George found himself written into. And I could. Easily. And drawing from stuff in the EU (and, more recently, the ancillary canon) allowed me to give it those additional layers that I so love, while still keeping the surface narrative a tense swashbuckling adventure or a taut suspense thriller or a chair-gripping psychodrama or...

    So that's what I take from The Wook arguing that there can be an objective standard. An important point to make, though, is that establishing such a standard does not negate people's enjoyment of things, neither does it mean people who analyze and rate things according to said standard are incapable of enjoyment themselves (me, I like understanding why I enjoy something, but I'm more introspective than a lot of people), nor does it mean that the standard can't change as new data is introduced. I think SethS did a good job of running down some of the key points of what makes something "Swarzy". There are, after all, only seven stories. The rest is how any given one is told.

    Ridire Firean said: View Post
    I liked Rogue One, but I knew I was there to see the lead in story to A New Hope. But I don't think you can have Star Wars without having lightsabers and the Force.

    Otherwise, isn't it all just Star Trek?
    No.



    Star Trek is (or, at least, should be) an entirely different storytelling mechanic. Opera deals with big, sweeping archetypal high-concepts. Star Trek is essentially an encounter group for Humanity, holding a mirror up to better understand ourselves through meeting strangers. There's a reason the original pilot got dinged for being "too cerebral".

    --Jonah
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    Nov 12, 2017, 10:25 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #106

  7. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 12, 2017, 1:36 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #107

    Great read.

    I feel the frustration though that the line between educated critic and fanboy with a blog is nonexistent. I wrote a movie that hovered in the mid 80s on RT when it was purely reviewed by professional outlets. Once it went went wide and fanbloggers could see it we plummeted to the 30s.
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    Nov 12, 2017, 7:17 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #108

    Ridire Firean said: View Post
    Darn these ads! They keep jumping me up to them and I keep forgetting why I logged in to this thread in the first place...

    I liked Rogue One, but I knew I was there to see the lead in story to A New Hope. But I don't think you can have Star Wars without having lightsabers and the Force.

    Otherwise, isn't it all just Star Trek?
    Star Trek is about big capital ships.
    Star Wars has little fighters and no transporters.
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    Nov 12, 2017, 8:53 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #109

    SethS said: View Post
    It’s a joke from Mean Girls you heathens.
    All my friends are heathens...

    Ridire Firean said: View Post
    Darn these ads! They keep jumping me up to them and I keep forgetting why I logged in to this thread in the first place...

    I liked Rogue One, but I knew I was there to see the lead in story to A New Hope. But I don't think you can have Star Wars without having lightsabers and the Force.

    Otherwise, isn't it all just Star Trek?

    I don't know if SW without lightsabers would work for the general audience . For fans, I can think of one Legends series, the X-Wing: Wraith Squadron series, where it worked great and there were no lightsabers or Force. I think one member had some minuscule Force ability, but she never/can't use it and it wasn't enough to train according to Luke. It was one of the best series of books IMO.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 10:21 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #110

    SethS said: View Post
    My 12 year old son, who is intelligent, has decent taste, and a big interest in film, would choose Transformers over Citizen Cane every time. There can be no absolutes when you're talking about subjectional material.

    Either way though, Revenge of the Fallen was the SECOND transformers movie, not the FOURTH. So your entire argument is now invalid.
    A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better. An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather. Kids are an audience with an undeveloped sense of, or even the frame of reference, to be able to recognize or relate to what makes a movie, or a song, etc. good for the ages.

    There are absolutes in life. This is good. That isn't. There's a standard that things are held to, and rightly so. I'm sure there are people out there that think that Mack and Me was better than E.T., but it isn't. They're not right. Maybe a little "special", but absolutely wrong. It may be getting harder and harder for audiences to filter detritus from greatness by virtue of the fact that they've been drowned in a flood of sewage out of Hollywood for at least 20 years. Their filters may need calibrating. But, a faulty filter doesn't change the fact there's a ton of crap flowing through it.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 11:22 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #111

    Jedi-72 said: View Post
    A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better. An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather. Kids are an audience with an undeveloped sense of, or even the frame of reference, to be able to recognize or relate to what makes a movie, or a song, etc. good for the ages.

    There are absolutes in life. This is good. That isn't. There's a standard that things are held to, and rightly so. I'm sure there are people out there that think that Mack and Me was better than E.T., but it isn't. They're not right. Maybe a little "special", but absolutely wrong. It may be getting harder and harder for audiences to filter detritus from greatness by virtue of the fact that they've been drowned in a flood of sewage out of Hollywood for at least 20 years. Their filters may need calibrating. But, a faulty filter doesn't change the fact there's a ton of crap flowing through it.

    Let me show you a magic trick. Once you see how it works, you won't believe how simple it is:

    "A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better."
    In this case, yes it does. McD's is better to that person. It doesn't matter that you and I think there are better tasting options available.

    "An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather."
    That's right and again, in your example, Cars would be the better movie. Not for you or me, but for that kid.

    All of the thinking that goes into those decisions is 100% subjective to emotional and intellectual experience and that applies to both kids and adults. Personal taste changes and evolves all the time, there are no "one size fits all " absolutes. Never have been, never will be.

    If you tell me the spark plugs I'm putting in my car are the wrong kind, there's a good chance you're absolutely correct. But just like the arrogant adults in 1977 who thought Star Wars was nothing more than sugar-coated junk food, you don't get to decide for someone else that the movie, music, novel or food they enjoy is substandard. It's your opinion, not fact.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 11:30 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #112

    I watched Citizen Kane in film class, only because of this I have seen it. Was bored to tears. I have no interest in the subject matter, same for Godfather movies.
    One can simply have such a high level of disinterest in subject matter that nothing can make you appreciate it, no matter the acting or how technologically cutting edge it was at the time. I get that Citizen Kane introduced a ton of film making methods that carry on to this day. I get that. But I didn't grow up with back then so there was nothing revolutionary to me watching it. and no amount of greatest movie ever made comments from critics matters. Maybe how it was made was great, introducing new narrative methods for instance, Yet I would put the first Godzilla film (Original Japanese edit) leagues ahead of it as far as being considered a grand classic, certainly enjoyment factor for me.
  13. The Wook's Avatar
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    Nov 13, 2017, 11:51 AM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #113

    Jedi-72 said: View Post
    A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better. An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather. Kids are an audience with an undeveloped sense of, or even the frame of reference, to be able to recognize or relate to what makes a movie, or a song, etc. good for the ages.

    There are absolutes in life. This is good. That isn't. There's a standard that things are held to, and rightly so. I'm sure there are people out there that think that Mack and Me was better than E.T., but it isn't. They're not right. Maybe a little "special", but absolutely wrong. It may be getting harder and harder for audiences to filter detritus from greatness by virtue of the fact that they've been drowned in a flood of sewage out of Hollywood for at least 20 years. Their filters may need calibrating. But, a faulty filter doesn't change the fact there's a ton of crap flowing through it.
    Dem Bones said: View Post
    Let me show you a magic trick. Once you see how it works, you won't believe how simple it is:

    "A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better."
    In this case, yes it does. McD's is better to that person. It doesn't matter that you and I think there are better tasting options available.

    "An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather."
    That's right and again, in your example, Cars would be the better movie. Not for you or me, but for that kid.

    All of the thinking that goes into those decisions is 100% subjective to emotional and intellectual experience and that applies to both kids and adults. Personal taste changes and evolves all the time, there are no "one size fits all " absolutes. Never have been, never will be.

    If you tell me the spark plugs I'm putting in my car are the wrong kind, there's a good chance you're absolutely correct. But just like the arrogant adults in 1977 who thought Star Wars was nothing more than sugar-coated junk food, you don't get to decide for someone else that the movie, music, novel or food they enjoy is substandard. It's your opinion, not fact.
    And this debate is why I've said ever since I introduced SWIQ to this site, that in order to accept SWIQ, you must not only accept that absolutes exist in this world, but that they can exist even in artistic mediums such as film. Jedi-72 and I say they can, and Dem Bones and Bryancd say they can't.

    But Dem Bones and Bryancd are mistaken. Absolutes exist. An absolute standard of Star Wars' essence and excellence exists, as defined by the theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. And one's SWIQ is a measure of how keenly he recognizes and understands what things do belong and don't belong in new Star Wars films. (The other component of SWIQ being how much factual stuff he knows, such as names, places, and dates, etc.)

    So, you may deny SWIQ all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that SWIQ exists, and the fact that you have a SWIQ, and the fact that you routinely make judgements in your mind about the SWIQs of others...even though you refuse to call it SWIQ.

    The Wook
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    Nov 13, 2017, 12:00 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #114

    Also, let's point out that if you're showing an 8 year old The Godfather, you have serious judgement issues.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 12:04 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #115

    I'm 39 and I loved Cars.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 12:30 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #116

    The Wook said: View Post
    And this debate is why I've said ever since I introduced SWIQ to this site, that in order to accept SWIQ, you must not only accept that absolutes exist in this world, but that they can exist even in artistic mediums such as film. Jedi-72 and I say they can, and Dem Bones and Bryancd say they can't.

    But Dem Bones and Bryancd are mistaken. Absolutes exist. An absolute standard of Star Wars' essence and excellence exists, as defined by the theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. And one's SWIQ is a measure of how keenly he recognizes and understands what things do belong and don't belong in new Star Wars films. (The other component of SWIQ being how much factual stuff he knows, such as names, places, and dates, etc.)

    So, you may deny SWIQ all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that SWIQ exists, and the fact that you have a SWIQ, and the fact that you routinely make judgements in your mind about the SWIQs of others...even though you refuse to call it SWIQ.

    The Wook

    Yeah, the funny thing is that you and I would probably agree more than disagree about some of the particulars when it comes to movies. But saying that subjective interpretation is absolute is a concept I just can't get behind.

    But it's a good conversation to have. Like you said once before, wouldn't the world be a pretty dull place if we all agreed all the time. That I absolutely agree with.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 12:57 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #117

    Jedi-72 said: View Post
    A 12 year old will choose fast food over a 5 star restaurant. That doesn't magically make McD's better. An 8 year old will also choose Cars over The Godfather. Kids are an audience with an undeveloped sense of, or even the frame of reference, to be able to recognize or relate to what makes a movie, or a song, etc. good for the ages.

    There are absolutes in life. This is good. That isn't. There's a standard that things are held to, and rightly so. I'm sure there are people out there that think that Mack and Me was better than E.T., but it isn't. They're not right. Maybe a little "special", but absolutely wrong. It may be getting harder and harder for audiences to filter detritus from greatness by virtue of the fact that they've been drowned in a flood of sewage out of Hollywood for at least 20 years. Their filters may need calibrating. But, a faulty filter doesn't change the fact there's a ton of crap flowing through it.
    Settle down Grandpa, we'll get off your lawn.

    (though if the 72 is your birth year, you're not much older than I)

    But thanks for the lesson in film history and child rearing. Going to film school and having a kid didn't prepare for your level of insight.

    Obviously, Citizen Kane is better than Transformers. And even as somebody who works in Hollywood, I fully agree we've dumbed down the movie going public by giving them crap after crap to enjoy so long they are afraid to move away from it. That's why the Emoji Movie made more money than Blade Runner.

    I don't like it either.

    That said-- once you wave your hand and say the masses don't count, you've become elitist. And in your own mind that's no problem-- but when you start dismissing the opinions of people it's a slippery slope to dismissing the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you. And that makes you into a different kind of person. The kind that is rude to people on the internet. The kind that that becomes a jerk to everyone in public. You know the kind of person I mean.

    I may not agree with the masses, I may even think they're idiots-- but that doesn't give me the right to judge them.
    Last edited by SethS; Nov 13, 2017 at 1:16 PM.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 2:24 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #118

    SethS said: View Post
    Obviously, Citizen Kane is better than Transformers.
    I accept your apology.

    SethS said: View Post
    I may not agree with the masses, I may even think they're idiots--but that doesn't give me the right to judge them.
    But in "thinking they're idiots", you ARE judging them. It's human nature. We all make judgements about each other, online and in the real world, countless times every day. That's very different from judging someone and then following it up with a harsh insult. No one's condoning that.

    But don't pretend we don't all judge, all the time. With every post we read on this site about Star Wars, we're making micro-judgements about the author's SWIQ.

    In the words of The Emporer...it is unavoidable.

    The Wook
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    Nov 13, 2017, 2:34 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #119

    Absolutes in experiencing art don't exist and to suggest they do equates your SWIQ with fascistic thinking.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 4:57 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #120

    JoeG said: View Post
    Also, let's point out that if you're showing an 8 year old The Godfather, you have serious judgement issues.
    I beg to differ. I saw it when I was 9 and was entranced by it. The Godfather is relatively tame. No gratuitous sex. Hardly a swear word. And, not a whole lot of violence. Just enthralling characters. JAWS is far worse and you'd show that to an 8 year old without a thought. It hooked me. My friends were watching these idiotic super hero cartoons and I preferred The Godfather. Kids are much smarter than parents give them credit for. They can handle and appreciate films like The Godfather and Cuckoo's Nest, etc. We just insist on feeding them simple Disney stuff non-stop.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 5:11 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #121

    The full and complete version of that Asimov quote is a good read and worth seeking out. It's too bad it doesn't quite apply to what we're talking about here, which is not a strictly fact-based body of knowledge. We're specifically talking about how different individuals emotionally process the things that bring them joy and satisfaction — art, if we need to slap a label on it.

    Sorry, fellas, but that's an area of life which is partly subject to intuitive opinion and can't simply be fact checked or graphed on a spreadsheet. I'm afraid there's some pesky gray between all that black and white you insist on seeing everything in.


    Edit: This was in response to some posts that appear to have been deleted by the mods.
    Last edited by Dem Bones; Nov 14, 2017 at 8:05 AM.
  22. Inquisitor Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Nov 13, 2017, 5:23 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #122

    To boil the topic of the last dozen or so posts down: Not everyone likes every story. This in itself does not make one good or another bad. I also learned early on that just because something might be a "great" movie, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one. There are a lot of movies I've watched where I can point out all the ways in which they're important ot the evolution of the medium, of our ability ot tell and take in stories, etc. But for most of them, they're not my go-to when I'm wanting to actually be entertained. Similarly, "simple" or "complex" do not, by themselves, indicate whether something will be good or not.

    So yes there's a lot of subjectivity in the arena.

    But one thing I also learned from my study of film -- both official and amateur over a lifetime -- is that the best movies are complex without being impenetrable, engaging without being frivolous, exciting without being nonstop action and explosions... They make you care about the characters and what happens to them (in this one context, I do like Bayformers for giving the military unit personality and -- shockingly -- having them survive not just one but multiple films)... And, I feel, there should be a good and memorable and well-applied score -- I strongly respond to a good interplay of music and visuals.

    I'd have to think for a while, over all the movies I've seen, which few I feel are perfect or close to it. And why. But one I know is near the top is The Princess Bride. Characters, dialogue, acting, wardrobe, timing, story, music... The few things that ding it from being truly perfect for me (not quite long enough, obvious actors in rubber suits as the ROUSes, occasional difficulty understanding Andre through his accent) I can easily forgive because of all the rest that makes it so wonderful.

    I can, if I felt like taking the time and making the effort, sit down and express over pages of symbolic logic how and why it is objectively a very good film (even if some people don't like it -- and I'd consider that more a psychological reflection of something amiss with them than I would a valid counterargument to my thesis)... But I won't. It's enough for me to know inductively that it's a good film and to know that, if challenged, I could elucidate as to why, without needing to lay it all out deductively to "show my work". It's enough to know there are sufficient metrics to be able to come up with at least pseudo-objective standards for what makes a good movie (absent experimental greatness), and that it can be refined further to establish what makes a good film in this or that fictional setting (I, personally, feel like I have a very high Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers IQ, in this sense ). I think where The Wook and I are in agreement on this is that we haven't sat down to enumerate all the line-items of what does or does not make a decent-to-good Star Wars film, but we have enough of a gestalt sense of it that we feel able to assert that such a standard baseline can be established.

    He and I do differ in our conclusions, however. I can appreciate the Prequels and TFA and R1 for what they were trying to do, even as I can rattle off all my structural and stylistic complaints and things I'd recommend as changes for the better. But I can still compartmentalize both of those and have re-watched both newer films several times since acquiring them on home-video. Whereas his enjoyment suffers from his appraisal of what's missing. That, then, enters the realm of subjectivity. I don't feel I'm a fool for enjoying them despite their faults, and I don't feel he's a fool for not enjoying them for the same reason. I'll leave it to a higher power to determine which of us is suffering more...

    ..But where I see him coming from (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that -- leaving out whether one enjoys the newer films or not -- they could have been done better, and I agree. And I'm pretty sure he and I would likely agree on the broad strokes of what that would look like, and there the balls got dropped. I can appreciate him not giving the makers a pass, and wanting to somehow force them to rise to the quality of the universe they're fortunate to be playing in. And, like me, he hates being dismissed as a crank and gets more strident when treated thus. I, also, would like a better term than "SWIQ", but I also can't think of a better and equally succinct one. *sigh*

    --Jonah
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    Nov 13, 2017, 5:43 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #123

    Jedi-72 said: View Post
    I beg to differ. I saw it when I was 9 and was entranced by it. The Godfather is relatively tame. No gratuitous sex. Hardly a swear word. And, not a whole lot of violence. Just enthralling characters. JAWS is far worse and you'd show that to an 8 year old without a thought. It hooked me. My friends were watching these idiotic super hero cartoons and I preferred The Godfather. Kids are much smarter than parents give them credit for. They can handle and appreciate films like The Godfather and Cuckoo's Nest, etc. We just insist on feeding them simple Disney stuff non-stop.
    Lighten up, Francis. I was joking around. Sorry I didnt dumb it down for you by adding some inane emoticon.
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    Nov 13, 2017, 5:59 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #124

  25. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Nov 13, 2017, 6:24 PM - Re: Rian Johnson to write and direct a new trilogy of films.. (Star Wars Universe) #125

    Inquisitor Peregrinus said: View Post
    T I think where The Wook and I are in agreement on this is that we haven't sat down to enumerate all the line-items of what does or does not make a decent-to-good Star Wars film, but we have enough of a gestalt sense of it that we feel able to assert that such a standard baseline can be established.
    But it will still be a baseline standard of two, or three, or thousands but it will still be entirely subjective. There's nothing unique about STAR WARS as a film, specifically ANH, that is actually unique at all beyond the visuals. Any attempt to create a baseline is just parroting all of the genres and influences that GL had in mind while making the first film. There will come a day, possibly sooner then later, when there will be new films created that are entirely devoid of your baseline but they will still be STAR WARS films, just ones not for you. And that's ok, because there are no objective truths in art.

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