Foam Latex vs Latex

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I've started gathering the supplies to cast my head, sculpt a mask (New 52 Joker in this case), and I would then need to cast it. What I'm asking from the insanely knowledgeable, talented, and well sometimes insane folks of the Sculpting and Makeup Effects forum is for a little direction as to what I use to cast the mask.

I do not want it to be simply a mask but more of an appliance/prosthetic, as in attach to the subjects face but still allow for jaw movement for speaking. My concern is I know foam latex must be hot cast with an oven which poses its' own certain set of obstacles. Essentially it comes down to look, if I can achieve the same look and standard latex pull will allow for the jaw movement I require I would like to go that course. I'm hoping you fine folks will be able to lead me in the right direction. IF POSSIBLE, I would like the prosthetic to stand up to removal in order to be applied a few times before having to make another cast. Thanks everyone!

Edit: To add on, or would something like silicone or Dragon Skin from Smooth-On be a better fit for what I'm going for. I do want it to resemble the cut off skin of Joker's face as much as possibly.
 
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While I have not doen anything quite this elaborate, my goto place for stuff like this is "Smooth-on". No latex or foam latex. Go silicone. Its a better feel and more realistic. It will also last longer. Here is a video showing how to do something similar to what you want. It assumes you already have the positive cast of the face and the negative mold of your custom sculpt.

How to Make a Dragon Skin Silicone Mask - YouTube
 
Foam will only last a couple of applications at most. I'd say silicone is the way to go. Dragon Skin, Platsil Gel10 is also an industry standard. You could encapsulate Gel 10 with Super Baldiez for paper thin edges if you're familiar with doing cutting edges etc. Or you can cast it without encapsulant and just accept that the edges won't be as good but it'll last for more applications.
 
TheKingaSwing said:
Foam will only last a couple of applications at most. I'd say silicone is the way to go. Dragon Skin, Platsil Gel10 is also an industry standard. You could encapsulate Gel 10 with Super Baldiez for paper thin edges if you're familiar with doing cutting edges etc. Or you can cast it without encapsulant and just accept that the edges won't be as good but it'll last for more applications.
Click to expand...

Well I think a benefit of what I'm actually doing is not having the need for paper thing edges, as the goal is to look like it was a face cut off that was turned into a mask. So having some sort of ridge would give the appearance of the thickness of skin sitting on the muscle tissue. I do appreciate the information, I don't understand how to encapsulate the Gel 10 with the Super Baldiez but it is a technique in the future I would love to learn. Is there any resource aside from the videos Smooth-On provides that could possibly start pointing me in the correct direction?
 
At the moment I think the only videos for making encapsulated prosthetics are Neill Gorton's. Well worth the money but quite expensive.

If you don't mind reading, he started a help group on Facebook and theres a photo album dedicated to the process:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.409803372391634&type=1

What you could do is make your mask then use liquid latex and cotton of the areas around it to simulate the exposed flesh, then any rough edges to the mask will look like skin as you mentioned before. The more complicated way would be to sculpt all the detail in, including the torn edge and underlying muscle structure but make it with thin edges for blending. Kind of like the RoboCop makeup (still mind blowing to see) but that's the long and complicated way lol
 
TheKingaSwing said:
At the moment I think the only videos for making encapsulated prosthetics are Neill Gorton's. Well worth the money but quite expensive.

If you don't mind reading, he started a help group on Facebook and theres a photo album dedicated to the process:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.409803372391634&type=1

What you could do is make your mask then use liquid latex and cotton of the areas around it to simulate the exposed flesh, then any rough edges to the mask will look like skin as you mentioned before. The more complicated way would be to sculpt all the detail in, including the torn edge and underlying muscle structure but make it with thin edges for blending. Kind of like the RoboCop makeup (still mind blowing to see) but that's the long and complicated way lol
Click to expand...

Much appreciated, I don't mind actually going the long and complicated way just to get a better understanding of the materials I'm working with. I'd like to know the hard way and the rules before I attempt to break them. I think having as full of an understanding as possible, regardless of time/effort will benefit me more in the future, and probably save me money compared to not knowing what I'm doing and attempting to "cheat". I use the word cheat simply in the manner of knowing shortcuts and how to achieve certain effects.
 
Personally, i'd go with latex, even though it doesn't last very long compared to silicone. Then again, I've yet to have a pleasant experience working with the stuff. For me, silicone works the best in small portions; large one piece appliances and silicone can get heavy (that's just my experience).

Despite my saying, go with what you think is going to work best for your project and don't worry if it sucks; that just lets you know what to do and what not to do next time.
 
PoopaPapaPalps said:
Personally, i'd go with latex, even though it doesn't last very long compared to silicone. Then again, I've yet to have a pleasant experience working with the stuff. For me, silicone works the best in small portions; large one piece appliances and silicone can get heavy (that's just my experience).

Despite my saying, go with what you think is going to work best for your project and don't worry if it sucks; that just lets you know what to do and what not to do next time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input! I guess the best way to really make the determination is to buy a trial size of each and cast using both materials. Though the benefit of coming to you wonderful people for information I no longer have to build a foam latex oven, haha. For the latex do you suggest a specific brand or kit? I know for the silicone I'll be looking at the suggestions of TheKingaSwing and trying Dragon Skin Pro FX. With the Dragon Skin, are you able to cast it in an Ultracal mold or is there something else I should use?
 
If you use the latex in the ultracal mold there will be the issue of the sulfur in the latex inhibiting the cure of the silicone. You're going to have pick one or the other. also regular latex(not foam) is going to be too stiff to move your face. Silicone will work for what you want very well
 
Personally I would use fibreglass for the mould. If you could use a lifecast of the person who will be wearing the mask as a core then you will be able to get excellent results with silicone. (thats how I did my Thade mask (my Avatar)
Neill Gortons dvds are I believe now available as streaming media so it would be worth checking out the Creating Character Prosthetics series.
 
I am actually doing a lifecast of the person, the person being myself. It's a family filled weekend, my parents are coming to my house to assist. First I'm going to demonstrate for my mother how to do it on my father, doing a plaster backing, and alginate/plaster reinforced front. I'd really like to not die during the process :p. I will have to explore how to do a fiberglass mold as I'm actually relatively unsure, i've worked with fiberglass before but not in terms of casting a mold. I will definitely give Neill Gorton a look if it's streaming/cheaper but the full price for the DVDs, especially being in the states is upwards of $250 for me. And it's not a matter of cost over the course of the project but of spreading it out.
 
Plaster mold and positive will work fine for silicone. As will epoxy, aluminium filled urethane resin or fiberglass but that all takes a little practice on something smaller first.
 
Oh man, stinks that usually the first DVD of Neill Gorton's stuff is a $1.55, then every one after that is only 6 month access and is $14 each. It'd be awesome to find like 8 people and split a $25-ish cost and get a full year of access.
 
They're worth their weight in gold though. I get that its a lot, I was lucky enough to have them given to me as a gift but after seeing them, I can't talk highly enough of them. Tools for life are in these dvds lol
 
It's just unfortunate that they are so expensive for me in the states, the two silicone compilations are $300 here in the states. And I do understand their worth but I would much rather invest that $300 into materials.
 
I figured I'd drag up my old topic instead of creating a new one. I need a plaster or plastic male head bust for sculpting clay on for this mask. I'd much prefer using a plaster cast of my own face however I cannot find anyone comfortable covering my face with alginate and plaster bandages. Not to mention I have horrendous allergies so my nose is consistently always stuffed, I would not see it ending well. Can you fine folks suggest a good resource for purchasing a generic male head and possibly shoulder bust? Much appreciated!

EDIT: Does alginate go bad and if so how do you tell? I still want to practice casting and I have some that I bought back in October.
 
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Monster Makers has some head forms, and so does David Mosher FX. I've heard nothing but good things from David's head forms. I'm not sure about alginate going bad. I just used some I've had for the past 6 years, and it still worked great. You can always to a small scale test to see if it still sets up.
 
I will definitely give both of those a look thanks! Someone tried suggesting a $25 plastic one on eBay, while economical, and may "do the job" I have this very odd feeling that when I go to make the casting I'd end up with some chemical reaction that would waste time and supplies.
 
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