PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction / Vader Helmet Discussion

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Don Post modified/cleaned up their casting to be more symmetrical for their would-be production of halloween masks.
That is why the Jeff W./GH line of castings (which come from molds acquired directly from Don Post) look significantly different than the screen used.

I don't believe the helmet pictured is THE donor helmet that Don Post used.
I believe Don Post used a casting molded directly off the screen used ANH helmet and then modified (as described above) that casting directly.
Then molds were created from those modified castings by Don Post and later sold on.



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Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Art, any chance you could get some 360 degree pics of it?

I wish. I was very limited on what I was allowed to photograph... and mostly I was told because of issues like this... :( Didn't get a shot of the Vader at all.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Don Post modified/cleaned up their casting to be more symmetrical for their would-be production of halloween masks.

And thus began the impetus for the symmetrical ROTS helmets, years before it came into being! :)
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I wish. I was very limited on what I was allowed to photograph... and mostly I was told because of issues like this... :( Didn't get a shot of the Vader at all.

Could you pass on word for them to correct the Shepperton Film Studios name? The last thing we need is a bunch of typos that leverage Ainsworth into a Vader expert where he had nothing to do with Vader.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I wish. I was very limited on what I was allowed to photograph... and mostly I was told because of issues like this... :( Didn't get a shot of the Vader at all.

Thanks for trying Art. Any claim, such as this, should be held up to the highest of opinions, statements or critiques. If it is what it's claimed to be, then one should say bring it on or at least I would. God forbid you be threatened with a lawsuit for stating your opinion on the matter.:rolleyes

If I was buying a lamborghini, I'd sure as hell make sure it's an authentic one and not a kit car that was converted into one using a Fiero.

I'm seeing a lot of people wearing their hearts on their sleeve here recently and it appears the auction houses may be going down the same route.

Nothing more to say on this one. Again.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Take a look at the lower right tusk tube--it looks like the undercut might be filled in like it is on helmets from the Rick Baker mold. If it is then I would think that would definitely eliminate it as a production helmet (or at least as a helmet produced during the filming of Star Wars).
 
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Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

*sigh*


Let's step back a moment.

The auction description states it as being "Original production made Darth Vader helmet from Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope."

Nothing is production about this helmet. Why would Shepperton Design Studios have a promo helmet or copy thereof from Don Post who was in the USA?

It has more in common with a Fyberdyne than the original. I'm not saying it is a Fyberdyne but maybe a step up, but it isn't anywhere close to being an original ANH. Cheek angles are identical to the Fyberdyne. The nail marks are not original, as mentioned the undercut on the tubes is filled in, the whole thing is sanded down to the same extent as a Fyberdyne, teeth thickness is the same but the lower edges are more accurate in terms of being more level than the Fyberdyne. Chin vent is the same as a Fyberdyne, and look at the tubes on the left (Vader's right)...pretty good match. Necks are the same length just slightly different curvature in the rear but close enough. Lower eye edges the same, same curvature same amount of smoothness. There's no notch on Vader's right side lower front edge of the nosebridge like on the original. Noseslots reworked on the left (Vader's right)...they just don't line up correctly at first glance.

The tubes are actually similar to the masks from the Baker ILM mold...at least as far as apparent thickness goes. I've been looking at the filled undercut. It almost seems like it is the same as a Baker ILM pull in the undercut fill, but I would need better images to be absolutely sure. If this is the case, then it almost would seem that Don Post used a copy from that mold rather than the original to make their softened template helmet. Maybe they just had the original suit for reference. Curious.
It is important to keep in mind that the filled tubes on masks from the Baker ILM mold would have been done to the original ANH mask when the mold was made, then the undercut removed as it is only temporary fill. Otherwise DP would have filled the tube undercut on the original mask then molded it. So it would have been filled twice. With better detailed photos of the tubes I would be able to tell if the undercut is identical to the Baker masks or not, and therefore if it was added by Don Post or not prior to him making his own mold for the tour/toy helmets.

PIHANHVadvsFyber1.jpg


An obvious thing is that the dome is not original, and it might have been reworked on the center ridge but I'd have to see more detail. The widow's peak is hard to make out. The dome is GH/Jeff-sized and so is smaller than an original, but this auction dome seems even smaller still in relation to the mask than a GH/Jeff dome.

Who is the consigner? SDS?

So to me this seems most like a transitional helmet or link between the original ANH and the Fyberdyne. But it definitely isn't a production ANH helmet.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I wish. I was very limited on what I was allowed to photograph... and mostly I was told because of issues like this... :( Didn't get a shot of the Vader at all.


That's too bad you didn't get pics. I am curious Art by what you mean by "because of issues like this"?
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Yeah, I always thought it was a cast from the Rick Baker mold that was used to make the Fyberdyne/GH line of helmets. Glad you agree. ;):lol
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Looks more like an SL than a Fyberdyne.

Would love additional photos though.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Actually I had a brain fart earlier in the thread thinking there may have been confusion in the jargon of the auction. I thought they may have confused Shepperton Film Studios with Shepperton Design Studios but of course the Vader's for ANH were made at Elstree film studios.

So I am a bit baffled that the helmet could have been aquired from Shepperton 'anything' at all.

Chris
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Yeah, I always thought it was a cast from the Rick Baker mold that was used to make the Fyberdyne/GH line of helmets. Glad you agree. ;):lol


Well anyone can say that. I am curious why did you think that? Don Post would have had the original helmet to mold. So if he used a copy from the Baker ILM mold, then he didn't mold the original ANH helmet. The filled tusk tubes would have been from the time the Baker ILM mold was made, not as a result of anything Don Post did. The fact the Fyberdyne line has filled tubes could be incidental to the refining work DP did. So I am curious what you would base that on.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I'll point out something that concerns me about this auction. It is clearly following on the heels of the Christie's Vader suit auction. This is a very disturbing trend. If the Christie's Vader is sold as having original components, and this auction goes through as well, we are looking at deliberate and fraudulent attempts to cash in on replicas presented as originals. I think this is the worst thing that has happened to the hobby, ever. That is my opinion.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I'll point out something that concerns me about this auction. It is clearly following on the heels of the Christie's Vader suit auction. This is a very disturbing trend. If the Christie's Vader is sold as having original components, and this auction goes through as well, we are looking at deliberate and fraudulent attempts to cash in on replicas presented as originals. I think this is the worst thing that has happened to the hobby, ever. That is my opinion.

Thomas, I believe you would find that the screen-used community would tell you this is nothing new and while some truly nefarious people would take advantage of a situation like this and try to knowingly pawn off a replica as an original, that in most cases, it is simply a matter of ignorance. How many time have we seen someone say they have something screen used only to find out it is a replica and they didn't know because they were told something from what they believed was a credible source and believed it. Very few people dig for the details like this community and most seem to accept as fact that something is what is claimed to be just because a "credible" person said so. I don't think most issues where something isn't what it is purported to be is necessarily maliciousness on the part of the seller... They just see and believe what they want to believe.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

You're right.

I suppose it does happen often with other props and is nothing new. Maybe since it relates to Vader it hits harder to home, at least personally for me. Is it that all we can do is educate ourselves as collectors? I believe the auction houses have a responsibility, that when they offer collectors opportunities to acquire significant props, to keep the collector's interests in authenticity to heart. Certainly some pieces fall through the cracks, but the Christie's and PIH Vader pieces are not some random or obscure offerings. If the same care is not taken with such pieces of universal appeal, why should they bother applying accepted standards of validating authenticity at all? Do not we as collectors share in this responsibility since, after all, someday we might be in that position hoping we found our dream prop? I hope it all works out for the better because things do not look so good.
 
Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Yeah, I always thought it was a cast from the Rick Baker mold that was used to make the Fyberdyne/GH line of helmets. Glad you agree. ;):lol
Well anyone can say that. I am curious why did you think that? Don Post would have had the original helmet to mold. So if he used a copy from the Baker ILM mold, then he didn't mold the original ANH helmet. The filled tusk tubes would have been from the time the Baker ILM mold was made, not as a result of anything Don Post did. The fact the Fyberdyne line has filled tubes could be incidental to the refining work DP did. So I am curious what you would base that on.
Just ****ing with you, dude.

If anything, if this sells for big money, you certainly look to have a pretty valuable helmet in your possession, considering yours is unaltered, un-cleaned up and unpainted. Same mold, so should be equal value, if not more because of those untouched features. You should be happy.
 
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