Potential recaster (eBay Daft Punk helmets) looking for more information

I tossed a similar post up on the Daft Club, but figured I might cast a wide net with this one and see if anyone here might have heard of this guy too.

Normally I'm pretty good at tracking down info or spotting issues with recasters. There's a few tells in my sculpts that indicate a casting is mine and not the work of another artist. After all, we're making replicas here and they're bound to look similar.

That said, there's a seller on eBay - "jerry2k84" - selling Thomas helmets that look strikingly similar to my own. The mouth on my helmet sits .025" lower on the left side than the right. Additionally, the intersection of the upper visor point to the top of the ear puck recess is more clearly defined on the right side of the helmet than the left; the left side has a 1/16" higher rise along the seam line separating the front and back sections of the helmet. These are all tells present in these photos, which is why I think these may be recast helmets.

Right side, his helmet.
Right side, my helmet

Left side, his helmet
Left side, my helmet

All of the edges and corners on the helmet seem to be duller and more rounded. This tends to happen in recasts when people sand and prep an original for re-molding.

Here's a list to one of his current listings. Thumbing through his history it seems like he's sold a few in the past. Daft Punk Helmet Thomas Real Chrome | eBay

The ears are also extremely similar. I turned those by hand so the likelihood of someone else happening on the same dimensions are pretty slim.

Ears, his
Ears, mine

Even still, I don't want to go sending someone any accusatory messages if they're just another builder who happens to not post progress shots. Lots of people do that and it's easy that I could be mistaken. If anyone has any information about this artist or the Thomas helmets he's selling I would be very thankful for the information. Perhaps if someone purchased one? I'd be happy to send you one of my castings to do a contrast/compare with to be certain.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I did some digging, and I've found out that I've actually sold this guy a helmet before. Also 2 sets of handplates (items he's also selling on eBay) as well as some circuitboards. Over a year and a half ago I had a helmet get destroyed in shipping. This was sold on eBay as a piece that someone could repair if they felt like putting in the time, and this helmet went to Jerry in AUS. I had a tip off from someone about 6 months ago saying these might be recasts but since then I sort of forgot about it.

Jerry claims all the helmet were purchased off ioffer and he's just doing the chrome and finishing work, but this is becoming somewhat difficult for me to accept.

More that I look into it I'm almost positive these are recasts.

Obviously, my eyes are not as in tune with what your sculpt looks like as yours are, but just looking at the ears is what convinced me his "works" are recast. As you know, I've spent some good time studying the ears and to get some of those chamfered edges or the inner, fine detail line of the "bowl" as close as they are to yours would require him to either specifically intended to sculpt replicas of your ears (in which case there would still be variances) OR -- and unfortunately more likely -- we're looking at a recast here.

Always sad to see this happen.

-Nick

Sorry to hear about this.
Your build progress is the most informative of any builder around.

There was this thread a while back about regarding recasters in Australia.
http://www.therpf.com/f9/2-new-crook-recasters-australia-ripping-off-us-europe-props-makers-193164/

Potentially there is some groups / peeps to contact to get more info on this person.

Good luck.

I contacted the guy, and he has claimed to have only sold 1 other Thomas helmet, which he said was purchased through iOffer as a blank kit which he finished with chrome and illumination before re-selling. This doesn't line up with the fact that he has six completed sales in his ebay history. He says the one currently for sale is my repaired helmet, sold to him over a year ago, but he's sold two others using identical pictures. These aren't scams either, from his feedback all items look like they've been delivered.

I found out that I've actually sold a raw cast kit to one of his buyers, so I'm trying to get in touch with them and see if they can post some side-by-sides.

Additionally, he's admitted in his most recent email that he's recasted Moguai's Guy-Man helmet, which he felt justified in doing because of communications issues after the original was damaged in shipping. I'm pretty sure he's decided to recast mine as well but is trying to make up a story about how that isn't the case.

I'll post more info when I have it.

"The helmet may be made of black or white resin"
On his auctions.
This means to me that he is casting them up as he goes, in either color as he uses resin?

His admittance to recasting in general is a prelude to a diatribe as to his right to recast in general, this is, however my opinion, but i have seen it so many times before as we all have.

Just gotta wait.

Then again, i could be wrong, ill admit to it, if i am!

Looks like one of yours all right dude.

Hope he's decent and stops what he's doing, I'll be keeping an eye out for any orders coming from a Jerry in AUS.

From looking at the temple area where the visor area joins the helmet, I say that it's a recast. The very slight differences in left and right sides on yours are also seen on his. I'm sorry dude, I hope you can get this situated. It's hard enough to make bills making props without having to chase down crooks and protect your hard work. Good luck !

Always a fear of mine. Sorry to hear it happened again.

I've been looking at the photos and the thing that is catching my attention is the ears as well. While Volpin's photos show his ears as a separate disc with a collar or shaft on the helmet where they attach, the helmet in question has the ear disc and shaft as what appears as one piece and separated from the helmet by what looks like a seam.

I am not sure how to take this into account.

Volpin, at any time did you sell helmets with the collar / shaft not attached to the helmet?

ETA: Spelling

That sucks Harrison. This is unfortunate and crappy thing that most great prop makers have to deal with. Go get him man! Your work is unbelievable.

This sucks, Harrison. Sorry to hear that someone is making money off of all of your hard work.

BlkMesaHero said:

Volpin, at any time did you sell helmets with the collar / shaft not attached to the helmet?

Click to expand...

They're all that way, actually. On my finished helmet, I blended the collar into the helmet main body because I added illuminated rings to the ear pucks. Here's the raw casting of the helmet shown in the links above before the collars were blended into it.



And the blending



Rational conversation is pretty much over with this guy. He hasn't offered much by way of explanation other than he's been purchasing raw castings from sites like ioffer, gumtree (?), Etsy and at local conventions. I don't sell through any of those channels so if that's true than someone else is recasting. I'm hesitant to believe that at this point though, since he's admitted to recasting already.

He's admitted that the one currently for sale is my helmet, but he's sold an identical one a few months ago. Used the same pictures in the listing and everything. Either the item wasn't represented accurately or he's lying about having more than one copy of my helmet. Simple as that.

I got an email from him this morning saying people have started threatening him through eBay. I can't vouch for any validity there but I really don't need some sort of personal goon squad issuing a bunch of e-threats. We're all adults here, and if anyone has it in their head that this is the proper course of action, cut that out right now.

He closed with "I'm going to ask my advice from my superiors on the best method to proceed on this. I am not taking this lightly." which pretty much means productive discourse is finished. I told him a few simple photos would clear things up immensely - a shot of the repaired cracks on the interior of the helmet maybe? Sales info from these sites he's buying from? So far there's been nothing of that, just vague hard to believe excuses and, now, threats.

I can't condemn anyone on that evidence alone, but feel free to make your own judgement with what I've said and the included pictures. Jerry is reading these threads, I invite him to share his side of things as well if he so chooses.

I mean, if you feel you have substantial evidence to prove that what he is selling are indeed recasts, well, I don't know what else can really be done other then trying to make his actions known for people to avoid.

The other question that would have me a bit concerned is if he is indeed telling the truth about acquiring castings from different people...if that was the case, I'd say there would be a much bigger problem. In all likelihood, that's not the case, but I'd get paranoid.

I'd also say to see if Ebay would pull any of his postings, but they're not very quick or motivated to respond to those types of reports...

I am sorry sorry to see that someone is ripping off all of your hard work. Your helmets turn out amazing and it is a shame that someone thinks its ok to pull this kind of cheap BS. I wish you all the luck in getting this guy to stop stealling your work.

tubachris85x said:

The other question that would have me a bit concerned is if he is indeed telling the truth about acquiring castings from different people...if that was the case, I'd say there would be a much bigger problem.

Click to expand...

That's the thing - if I were in his case I'd look up some links or something to send to me saying "look, here's where I got them" - purchases through these sites have to have some sort of confirmation email right? I checked ioffer, gumtree and etsy - the only helmets for sale on all three sites are pieces by Firewire, Sorenzo and Stony. I know all three of these guys and their work and can point out the differences in out sculpts easily. Moguai used to sell on iOffer and Etsy but hasn't got any listed currently. His helmets and mine look very similar but his is about 90% scale to mine and the lowest part of the chin is much much narrower.

Firewire's would be the next closest to mine but his chin sculpt is longer near the ears and narrower on the front portion with a thinner mouth section. Additionally my LED kits won't fit in his helmets so I know that's out.

If someone was recasting my stuff and selling it clandestine on these smaller sites, they're not doing it anymore. Still, that's a tough pill to swallow.

Volpin said:

That's the thing - if I were in his case I'd look up some links or something to send to me saying "look, here's where I got them" - purchases through these sites have to have some sort of confirmation email right? I checked ioffer, gumtree and etsy - the only helmets for sale on all three sites are pieces by Firewire, Sorenzo and Stony. I know all three of these guys and their work and can point out the differences in out sculpts easily. Moguai used to sell on iOffer and Etsy but hasn't got any listed currently. His helmets and mine look very similar but his is about 90% scale to mine and the lowest part of the chin is much much narrower.

Firewire's would be the next closest to mine but his chin sculpt is longer near the ears and narrower on the front portion with a thinner mouth section. Additionally my LED kits won't fit in his helmets so I know that's out.

If someone was recasting my stuff and selling it clandestine on these smaller sites, they're not doing it anymore. Still, that's a tough pill to swallow.

Click to expand...

If that's the case, then he's blowing smoke up his rear and trying to cover his ass since he's been caught. While I've never used Etsy or Ioffer, there would have to be some kind of sale history or at least of items sold prior? Surely there would be some form of documentation to back that claim up, Paypal transaction receipts, direct communication with the seller, etc.

The other thing to consider, just with recasting in general (non-specific to your work) is how many are out there that operate "underground" or are working on a more local level? I imagine on some level that is a very maddening prospect to even ponder. It would essentially be almost the same as it was trying to get stormtrooper armor in the early 2000s...gotta know someone who knows someone just to avoid having a bad stigma. I think being labeled a recaster here on the RPF is probably the worst thing to have happen due to the high number of well known prop builders as well as the generally high traffic volume.

What I think you should do (I can't view pictures from my work comp) is put together a few side-by-side images directly comparing your sculpt next to what he's producing to make it clear, and perpetuate those images/notices around the community. He may very well "stop" currently with enough pressure, but once the proverbial smoke settles, he will come back again...

Volpin said:

They're all that way, actually. On my finished helmet, I blended the collar into the helmet main body because I added illuminated rings to the ear pucks. Here's the raw casting of the helmet shown in the links above before the collars were blended into it.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3550/5802100743_cfdd0cb65e_z.jpg

And the blending

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2779/5828811224_f83d6fa411_z.jpg

Click to expand...

Yes after seeing these photos, I would have to say that you are correct sir. The helmets in question are too similar to not be copies or used your helmet inch for inch and angle for angle to not have been source material. I'll put money on that if a photo of the inside was shown, the flat filler sections in the ear sections on the helmet would be there. They are an excellent mounting point for the Ear pieces after all.

Volpin, it's a damn shame when things you create are copied like this. Much respect for you and sorrow over this affair.

Update: Jerry's last email is probably the last I'll get. A highlight:

"[...]now you want me to answer more questions after you've already incited a mob against me? get real.
A few lines about not sending threats now is closing the gate after the horses have already bolted. You incited these guys even before I had a chance to defend myself."

In that situation I'd be providing some legitimacy to my story, but that's just me. I also offered to talk with these people directly in his stead, but haven't heard back from him regarding that yet. Since he recast Moguai's work in reprisal for bad email communication, I'm fair sure he'll use this "inciting a mob" thing as rationalization for continuing to recast my work.

I'll keep my eye on eBay. If what he says is true and he only listed the helmets in his possession, then I won't see any more clones of my work up there. If he's recasting and lists another one, that's pretty much an open and shut case.

Again, I don't have 100% proof positive these are recasts of my work - he could be pulling these from people selling castings they bought from me just like he says. Personally I find that very hard to believe, but you be the judge.

I know I'm not sending any more of my work to Jerry in Australia though. Other builders might think about doing the same.

if it is solid case of a recaster hes been marked.

so you may never get this resloved fully but this thread and the one on daft club pop up just after his ebay account. Hed have to change his online identity if he really wanted to continue doing this if it is recast.

Volpin said:

Update: Jerry's last email is probably the last I'll get. A highlight:

"[...]now you want me to answer more questions after you've already incited a mob against me? get real.
A few lines about not sending threats now is closing the gate after the horses have already bolted. You incited these guys even before I had a chance to defend myself."

In that situation I'd be providing some legitimacy to my story, but that's just me. I also offered to talk with these people directly in his stead, but haven't heard back from him regarding that yet. Since he recast Moguai's work in reprisal for bad email communication, I'm fair sure he'll use this "inciting a mob" thing as rationalization for continuing to recast my work.

I'll keep my eye on eBay. If what he says is true and he only listed the helmets in his possession, then I won't see any more clones of my work up there. If he's recasting and lists another one, that's pretty much an open and shut case.

Again, I don't have 100% proof positive these are recasts of my work - he could be pulling these from people selling castings they bought from me just like he says. Personally I find that very hard to believe, but you be the judge.

I know I'm not sending any more of my work to Jerry in Australia though. Other builders might think about doing the same.

Click to expand...

Thing is, this person is clearly being irrational to the point of two personal beleif scenarios, he is delusional and believes this stuff himself, or he is being the disghonorable idgit we all kinda see the situation as.

The outcome, though is that you wont get a rational conversation from an irrational person.