Blade Runner 2049 - Tomenosuke controversy

Tome was nothing more than a vendor the studio purchase a few props. Not even the main guns. The prop master and studio owe no credit to Tome. I wish people would move on. They got some of their product, bootleg remember off another artists work mind you, be happy and move on. Prop master is not in a position to give out product credit... especially on camera. Hence why the term “replica” was used. I think Tome needs to stop crying and making waves and certainly I don’t think people need to blindside actors with that ****. Do you really think Harrison gives a ****? Just watch that video at the panel video and realize just how ****ing childish that was. Again, studio owes Tome nothing. This is why Disney’s contracts are ****ing 30 pages and I have to pay a lawyer to go over them. Which is why Disney has a no bragging rights clause in their contracts.

Meh...I guess Tomenosuke did a lot of work and are very proud of their replica blasters and like most humans they appreciate some recognition and gratitude for it, particularly from their "peers".....or at least a show of respectfulness.
How ironic that their "replicant blaster" has caused a bit of a stir in the real world.:wacko

"That hurt... That was irrational.....Not to mention unsportsman like....." - (Roy Batty, Blade Runner)

But you don’t publically bash the prop master and studio on your website. Ya don’t drill the director and actors at a convention. Guaranteed, that was the last time Tome got a film gig like this. And ya don’t question whether real guns were even made and if only Tome guns were used.

This is interesting as a fairly uninformed fan. I thought it unfair on Tomen to begin with but now I think maybe they've overreacted somewhat. The production clearly built their own hero prop blasters from scratch using the original as reference, along with rubber stunt blasters and who knows how many other versions. The fact they bought some Tomens as well tells you nothing about how, or even if, they were used in any capacity whatsoever. Tomen probably should have dined out on the connection to the production they had rather than publicly demanding more. But that's just my uninformed opinion which could very well be totally wrong

NeilDavies said:

This is interesting as a fairly uninformed fan. I thought it unfair on Tomen to begin with but now I think maybe they've overreacted somewhat. The production clearly built their own hero prop blasters from scratch using the original as reference, along with rubber stunt blasters and who knows how many other versions. The fact they bought some Tomens as well tells you nothing about how, or even if, they were used in any capacity whatsoever. Tomen probably should have dined out on the connection to the production they had rather than publicly demanding more. But that's just my uninformed opinion which could very well be totally wrong

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The Tomens were most definitely supplied and indeed, one can clearly be seen as the "heavy Replica" Adam is holding because of specific Tomen tells. @kpstudio has a point given his experience in this field because contributors to movie productions are often not credited (I should know) but it doesn't make what happened right.

I believe from discussions with Tomenosuke that there will be some clarification over this issue in the not too distant future.

The gun showed in the Tested video, and handled by Adam Savage is a Tomenosuke. I will have more material on this soon. Basically it is based on a few parts on the guns that are unique to the Tomenosuke design, and not found on neither the original, nor on any other of the best made replicas out there. And these has been spotted on the guns tha t the propp master claims are his studios hero built version.

I'm not saying that they didn't build one or more blank firering hero replicas based on the original prop. But so far, all the props they've shown have either been light weight rubber stunts, or Tomenosuke Blasters.

And one thing that puzzles me, is that the K blaster has CGI muzzle flash, but the Deckard Blaster blank firering capabilities. Why not just use CGI for both?

SkullDroid said:

(2 minutes late ^^)

Been waiting for this. Adam Savage with the 2049 blasters and the prop master. Still no mention of Tomenosuke from him. https://youtu.be/FqdsYn9TdWQ

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I just watched the Tested video - Adam Savage and the Prop Master, Harlocker. When they are holding the "supposedly made from scratch" heavy weight replica Deckard Blaster, you can clearly see a solid barrel plug inside the front of the gun barrel, (same as the Tomenosuke). And there is also a horizontal flat plate interference-plug on the other end of the gun barrel (same as the Tomenosuke) when the cylinder door is open. Also, you can see a built-in bullet safety disc inside the bullet cylinder, the same diameter and location as the Tomenosuke blaster.

Wow...... that heavy weight replica blaster is no doubt a Tomenosuke with a new paint job and finish, not a new blaster built from scratch. Why would they build-in exactly the same safety features to the barrel and the bullet cylinder for a movie prop...? (Japan STGA compliance approved safety features by way of plugs used by Tomenosuke). Answer is pretty simple.... Because they didn't. It is the Tomenosuke Blaster.

Edit: You can see more info on this in the next post below.

Quote from Shinji Tomenosuke Nakako, owner of Tomenosuke, regarding the "Adam Savage Examines the Blade Runner 2049 Blasters!" video, published on Oct 6, 2017, on youtube.

Quote:
"Mr. Savage, for whom I have a sincere regard. You showed us the characteristics of Tomenosuke Blaster.

photo-1: barrel insert
photo-2: two screws for fixing the lazer sight
photo-3: omitted the notch by technical reasons"

Adam Savage knows his blasters and he has a keen eye for detail. I reckon it is highly likely he noticed that is a Tomenosuke in his hands....and did not say anything to the prop master about it...
Ahhh...POLITICS.

To be fair, the prop master guy does explain to Adam that he is handling the replica in the video.

This is what he says while Adam is comparing the rubber stunt blaster and the replica…

“So we went from very light weight, to the replica, which is heavy, to the, we built real ones with the Steyr rifle receiver and the Bulldog. That’s even heavier than this.”

Well there you go, I didn't spot the one Adam held was a Tomen on first viewing - I need to study more, obviously! It feels somewhat dishonest to be handing that to interviewers while also talking about building blasters from scratch - and not clarifying the difference (and indeed origin) of the 'replicas'.

Its an unfortunate business but as usual there must be some legal BS behind all this.
What I'd like to know is where the '2049 hero' has been spirited off to and if it will ever make a public appearance.

Following up on staermose's post, I would also like to stress that the folk at Tomen have stated very clearly that they do not want this to end up in a fight, they are merely pointing out the oversight...

M

Darth Lars said:

In the Adam Savage/Tested video we hear that there were:
* Made from real parts, shoots blanks but very heavy.
* Rubber casts
* Middle-ground. Rigid replicas, not rubber, not made from real parts, so less heavy.

We know that the Tomenosuke have some parts made of plastic instead of steel, which would make it less heavy than blasters made from all real parts.
So, most likely is that the lighter non-rubber replicas were Tomenosukes.

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I believe this is the case. So production made fireable blasters to shoot, rubber blasters for action sequences, and they probably used the Tomenosukes for close-ups.

Its too bad he didn't mention the Tomenosukes, but probably just an oversight. It just so happens that that little tidbit of info is much more interesting of a story, and the kind of info us prop fans relish. Its just too bad Adam didn't ask about the bring up the Tomenosukes, I was really hoping that he would.

asavage, as you've handled some of the gun props, would you care to weigh in your opinion on why it is seemingly Tomenosuke's Blasters that are being shown off as being the hero version? Is there a simple explanation to all this?

There is a reason the prop master reframed from giving credits. No doubt Savage knew what he was holding. Tome is a vender. Period. Studio isn’t going to give free advertising to a replica prop company for free. If Tome has a license, they know what they can and can’t say under their contract. There is their bragging rights. As for the firing gun? Anyone thinking or understanding that it is a controlled real live fire and has to be signed in and out by authorized individuals.... like the armorer. The fact that Doug even gave Tested the time to video for all you guys is amazing. Who gives a **** what guns were used for what scenes. Filming can be chaotic at times to get the shot. Two words.... “product placement”. Tome pretty much bashed the studio openly. If they had a contract, which I doubt they had anything more than a NDA, they wouldn’t be openly bashing anyone. The prop master mentioned “replicas”. If he said “we had replicas made” or “we made highly detailed replicas”... he’s spot on to the truth. Under NDA and or contract... the studio owns everything pretty much. Since they purchased from Tome, Tome was a VENDOR and hence a studio bitch. If I hired someone to work for me at my shop and I had them working on a prop, I made the props. My shop, my name on the sign, and my name on the checks. The studio hires me and I’m working for them. Plain and simple! Tome needs to drop the fan boy replica **** if they want to work in this industry. You can’t work in the industry and still act like they’re fan boys. You guys know what I mean. There has to be a disconnection. Certainly publicly bashing the studio they way they did is a far cry from acting professional.

When a prop master does an interview and holds one of my props and says... “we built this”, it’s the truth. He’s my boss. With that said, that doesn’t kill my bragging rights to say “my shop built that for him”. Everyone here for the most part are fan boys (I say that with respect because I’m a geek fan boy inside myself). This site is a place of talented replica fabricators. Again, for the most part. You’re used to thinking from that perspective. You show your work and people acknowledge you and your work. You’re used to receiving “credit”. That’s not the same in the industry andTome is learning the hard way. It’s the studio and who works “for them”. When a prop buyer buys product or parts or rentals from a vendor.... it’s the “studio” building or supplying. It happened under “their” roof. This is the hard truth.

Let’s look at credits. Not even everyone in the union that worked on that film gets in the rollings. It’s political and in depth and contract based for the most part. Again, hard facts. Tome got their license to make replicas from what I hear. Take that and create a productive and respectful sales pitch which outlines what you “supplied” to the studio for use in that sales pitch. Don’t assume what props were used for what scenes in that pitch. You weren’t on set, therefore you have no clue when the firing guns were used or not.... or when the replicas were used or not. This would be the tactful way of doing this. Not the public bash and certainly not the interrogation bs at a BR panel at a convention.

Hey kcpstudio
There is no need to explain in detail your points conveyed in your rants. Alot of it is not required. We aren't ignorant or stupid. Quite simply we all know what is the wrong thing to do and what is the right thing to do. That Harlocker guy may have had 'one hand tied behind his back' because of politics (maybe) but he was still in the wrong and he has been caught red handed. Simple as that.

kcpstudio said:

Who gives a **** what guns were used for what scenes.

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Well... this is the RPF, soooo... basically... everyone?!

cratercritter said:

Hey kcpstudio
There is no need to explain in detail your points conveyed in your rants. Alot of it is not required. We aren't ignorant or stupid. Quite simply we all know what is the wrong thing to do and what is the right thing to do. That Harlocker guy may have had 'one hand tied behind his back' because of politics (maybe) but he was still in the wrong and he has been caught red handed. Simple as that.

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Agreed.

Not the one ranting. Doug didn’t get caught red handed with anything. Your perception of what is standard in the industry is blinded. Ask Tome to show you their NDA. You may be surprised as to what it says.