Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

One more tiny complaint, which I hate to do again, is Luke's prosthetic hand. This is not just aimed at this movie, but design in general. I would think a prosthetic hand would be very rugged, not have things that would catch on things, etc. Luke's hand looks like it would get caught on any and everything. It's designed to look cool over function. Anakin's AOTC hand was a better example, though it still had loose wires running through it. The ROTS arm was really good and he even wore a glove that sealed around it. Luke's hand just looks unfinished. IF they moved the palm plate to cover more of the palm and then had similar protection for the underside of the fingers it would work better. IMO anyway. Another example would be scifi movies or games that have weapons that have wires hanging off.

Well, assuming it is the same hand we saw at the end of ESB, it was once covered with synthetic skin and who knows whatever else under that skin between the skin and the metal armature that could have provided support, padding, and so on . I get the feeling we are looking at now what is left of the hand after all of that other stuff being destroyed, burned off or whatever. So it’s a bit like looking at the frame of the building, without the bricks, insulation, etc. Anakin’s hand, conversely, was never shown having any covering. It was just the bare metal hand covered up later by a glove..

Even in ROTJ, it had the skin, and was only covered with a glove when a hole was shot in it during the Sail Barge battle There must be some story behind what happened to his hand because, in the flashback scene, when he is faced with the attack upon the new Jedi Temple, his hand is already completely bereft of any covering. (Or there is no explanation, and they just did it to look cool.)

M
 
Like a lot of stuff JJ does, there probably was no reasoning behind the robot hand touching r2, besides it being cool.

I love JJ but his way of doing things is, I'm going to do it like this, I'll let the next guy worry about explaining


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I haven't read any of the new books, but what bugs me is that it sounds like the New Republic disarmed in a treaty with the Empire. That makes zero sense that the Alliance would completely lay down their weapons after securing peace. Draw down maybe, but no disarmament. Supposedly the new Resistance ship Raddus (which I like) is the last ship they had, which they gave to the resistance. Oh and BTW how do you get that past a disarmament treaty? Surely the Empire would want to know what happened to an over 3KM long ship. Is that true? If so it again sounds like they were trying to reset the galaxy to recreate the OT again. The New Republic is back to a resistance (Rebels), Luke has no Jedi = Obi Wan. The Empire is back better than ever with superweapons and massive ships. Really?

It's a lot more complex than that. In the months after Endor, as the new government was trying to get set up, Mon Mothma was urging de-materializing, so people wouldn't feel/fear the New Republic would just swoop in and govern through military muscle the way the Empire had. By the time of the Battle of Jakku, a year after Endor, Coruscant was a quagmire with the ISB trying to maintain control over a populace in open revolt, with an almost powerless Mas Amedda pretty much a prisoner in his suite. As far as the actual Empire, as a viable military entity, it was in the hands of someone off-planet, who had been mustering the remnants of the Imperial fleet and their sole remaining Command Ship (maybe -- the fate of the Eclipse is murky... it is hinted that it preceded Sloane and Hux to what would ultimately be First Order territory) at Jakku to get the last of what was needed to kick-start the First Order. That last Super Star Destroyer, Ravager, went down, along with several other capital ships of both sides. That was the death knell of the Galactic Empire and the New Republic could get on with cleanup and consolidating legitimacy.

The next quarter-century is still a blank spot, but when we check back in about five years before TFA, the New Republic Senate has polarized into those favoring collaborative governance, where individual planets and systems have equal say in things (... which is resulting in a government that is about as paralyzed as the Old Republic Senate had become) and no military, and those favoring a strong central government with a single leader and waxing rhapsodic about the good old days of the Empire when things actually got done, with a strong military. At the end of all the drama, the Centerists, who had tacitly been helping bankroll the First Order (yet to publicly reveal themselves), basically rage-quit the New Republic, leaving them to their touchy-feely legislative logjam.

Leia had discovered the existence (if not the name) of the First Order lurking out there and getting ready for... something -- probably nothing good. Since her parentage had just become public (thanks to the Centerists), her credibility was practically nonexistent. So she left in a huff, taking those who believed her with her, and set up the Resistance. Over the next couple years, they were able to scrounge some surplus ships and get some backing from a few politicians and worlds who knew her from Rebellion days and knew she wouldn't do all this without a damn good reason.

When we get to TFA, the government has basically been "dead, but doesn't know it yet" for close to a decade. If the Starkiller hadn't taken out Hosnian Prime, the New Republic Senate probably would have disintegrated within a few more years on its own. But the Starkiller did wipe out Hosnian Prime and its moons, one of which was the main base of the New Republic Navy, where most of their assets were, since everyone had been dithering about what to do with them. So the galactic government and military got 90% taken out in that one shot. We have yet to see the fallout from this, as no time has passed yet. But given all this, it totally makes sense to me that the Raddus is the only capital ship available right after. There may be others, in transit, or on-station in some system, but they won't have had time to react yet.

[ETA: Oh, and regarding the Rey's parentage thing. I still like the idea that back when Obi-Wan was an apprentice and was protecting Satine, he knocked her up and never found out. She didn't want to be the reason for him leaving the Jedi Order, and was young enough still that the baby was raised by their parents as her younger sister, Bo-Katan. There's a lot of precedence for such things here in RealityLand™. Bo-Katan never found out about her true parentage, and later had a child... Who later had a child eleven years after the Battle of Endor... Who for some reason got left with Unkar Plutt on Jakku when she was 8.

Pretty sure it'll not be that way, but I enjoy speculating. :) ]

--Jonah
 
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How about that just makes a hell of a lot more sense emotionally to reunite Luke with R2 than to just bring in another stranger? Maybe Rian just thought JJ was missing another chance for some resonance between old characters.

Well of course but that is the obvious moment... That beat is not going to be a surprise it's a given... Luke and all of us watching are going to need that moment R2 looking up at Luke I'm starting to tear up just thinking about it... But what is in question is Luke's lightsaber and where if he still has it is it...
 
Your newest theory?....

Rumors were the saber is in his bag. Multiple times rian has stated he wanted r2 on the falcon to meet Luke.

My new theory is r2 is carrying Luke's lightsaber

Then again there's that whole scene in the early trailers with kylo holding a saber that looks like Luke's..

We won't know for sure until December. But it's always fun coming up with ideas until then! :)
 
[ETA: Oh, and regarding the Rey's parentage thing. I still like the idea that back when Obi-Wan was an apprentice and was protecting Satine, he knocked her up and never found out. She didn't want to be the reason for him leaving the Jedi Order, and was young enough still that the baby was raised by their parents as her younger sister, Bo-Katan. There's a lot of precedence for such things here in RealityLand™. Bo-Katan never found out about her true parentage, and later had a child... Who later had a child eleven years after the Battle of Endor... Who for some reason got left with Unkar Plutt on Jakku when she was 8.

Pretty sure it'll not be that way, but I enjoy speculating. :) ]

--Jonah

I was never down with Rey being a Skywalker or a Kenobi. I'm kinda hoping now that she's not related to anyone we know, but I always liked the theory of Rey being related to Palpatine. I wonder if Rian is going to do a Da Vinci code thing where Rey is like Sophie and she's the descendant of a powerful ancient Jedi or a descendant of Palpatine and the Church of the force is like the Priory of sion and is hiding and protecting that lineage.
 
Then again there's that whole scene in the early trailers with kylo holding a saber that looks like Luke's..

Ooooh~! Then that gives me a theory of my own about how Luke lost his mechanical hand flesh!

Kylo has Force-snatched it from Luke in a "Take my weapon. Strike me down with it with all your hate!" moment where Luke was testing if Kylo was truly turning towards the Dark Side and Luke caught the blade with his hand (because of course the underlying structure would be 'lightsaber-proof' ;) ,you don't have a hand replaced that was cut off by a lightsaber made for you that wasn't, right!? ) and it burned all of the flesh off in a magnificent blade-lock-up with Luke screaming in agony! Ended by Luke Force-throwing Kylo away from him while still holding onto the blade. Kylo landed upon his back with a crunch (that's when he got that weird gate) and Luke extinguished the blade by taking hold of the hilt with his left hand and depressing the activation/deactivation plate.

Here, I'll even throw in a possiblilty for you twos'( @harrisonp and @halliwax ) theory...

Luke looks at R2-D2 and says, "Here, you better hold on to this for me for a while. And...make sure I never say that to anyone again O.K."
R2-D2 responds "Beep-beep. Sharp short whistle into long trailing moan whistle."

TA-DA! :D
 
It's a lot more complex than that. In the months after Endor, as the new government was trying to get set up, Mon Mothma was urging de-materializing, so people wouldn't feel/fear the New Republic would just swoop in and govern through military muscle the way the Empire had. By the time of the Battle of Jakku, a year after Endor, Coruscant was a quagmire with the ISB trying to maintain control over a populace in open revolt, with an almost powerless Mas Amedda pretty much a prisoner in his suite. As far as the actual Empire, as a viable military entity, it was in the hands of someone off-planet, who had been mustering the remnants of the Imperial fleet and their sole remaining Command Ship (maybe -- the fate of the Eclipse is murky... it is hinted that it preceded Sloane and Hux to what would ultimately be First Order territory) at Jakku to get the last of what was needed to kick-start the First Order. That last Super Star Destroyer, Ravager, went down, along with several other capital ships of both sides. That was the death knell of the Galactic Empire and the New Republic could get on with cleanup and consolidating legitimacy.

The next quarter-century is still a blank spot, but when we check back in about five years before TFA, the New Republic Senate has polarized into those favoring collaborative governance, where individual planets and systems have equal say in things (... which is resulting in a government that is about as paralyzed as the Old Republic Senate had become) and no military, and those favoring a strong central government with a single leader and waxing rhapsodic about the good old days of the Empire when things actually got done, with a strong military. At the end of all the drama, the Centerists, who had tacitly been helping bankroll the First Order (yet to publicly reveal themselves), basically rage-quit the New Republic, leaving them to their touchy-feely legislative logjam.

Leia had discovered the existence (if not the name) of the First Order lurking out there and getting ready for... something -- probably nothing good. Since her parentage had just become public (thanks to the Centerists), her credibility was practically nonexistent. So she left in a huff, taking those who believed her with her, and set up the Resistance. Over the next couple years, they were able to scrounge some surplus ships and get some backing from a few politicians and worlds who knew her from Rebellion days and knew she wouldn't do all this without a damn good reason.

When we get to TFA, the government has basically been "dead, but doesn't know it yet" for close to a decade. If the Starkiller hadn't taken out Hosnian Prime, the New Republic Senate probably would have disintegrated within a few more years on its own. But the Starkiller did wipe out Hosnian Prime and its moons, one of which was the main base of the New Republic Navy, where most of their assets were, since everyone had been dithering about what to do with them. So the galactic government and military got 90% taken out in that one shot. We have yet to see the fallout from this, as no time has passed yet. But given all this, it totally makes sense to me that the Raddus is the only capital ship available right after. There may be others, in transit, or on-station in some system, but they won't have had time to react yet.

[ETA: Oh, and regarding the Rey's parentage thing. I still like the idea that back when Obi-Wan was an apprentice and was protecting Satine, he knocked her up and never found out. She didn't want to be the reason for him leaving the Jedi Order, and was young enough still that the baby was raised by their parents as her younger sister, Bo-Katan. There's a lot of precedence for such things here in RealityLand[emoji769]. Bo-Katan never found out about her true parentage, and later had a child... Who later had a child eleven years after the Battle of Endor... Who for some reason got left with Unkar Plutt on Jakku when she was 8.

Pretty sure it'll not be that way, but I enjoy speculating. :) ]

--Jonah

Yes all that did happen, in canon, leading up to TFA. The fact remains it's still looking like TLJ, in conjunction with the rest of canon, is taking us back to status quo (i.e. the OT), with the First Order (i.e. the Empire) in power and the resistance (i.e. the Alliance) struggling to take back the galaxy. Sure the details are different - we know who Kylo Ren is under the mask, Luke has lost all hope (vs. Obi-Wan having a hope in Luke), Snoke is so far a coward (while the emperor was front and center), etc - but the broad strokes are basically the same, and that's a shame imo.

Say what you will about the prequels, at least they dared to be different. Since the changing of hands of Lucasfilm, the new hands have seemingly been scared s***less of breaking the mold. Even Rogue One, which I enjoyed immensely, is intrinsically tied to ANH; even the novels and the comics, with few exceprions, are linked to the times between RotS and ANH or ANH and ESB.

I get it, the prequels put a bad taste in the mouths of many fans. But the solution isn't to stick with what you know, it's to tell different stories and tell them well.

None of this is to say that I don't like what they are giving us (well the novels leave something to be desired), but TFA (while I liked it) underwhelmed me - it felt like a glorified fan film fan owing, I'm seeing now, to its great similarities to ANH - and I am nervous that TLJ will too. Although Luke having a lot more to do automatically bumps it up a notch from TFA lol.
 
For me, there's a lot riding on TKJ for those reasons. I hate the PT, and while I liked TFA, I certainly understand the complaints. I personally agreed with JJ and Kennedy that hard-reset back to the feeling of SW was a needed step after the prequels. TFA succeeds on the feels alone for me.

BUT-- much like JJ's Star Trek reboot, now that the tone has been established, it's time to strike out in a bold new direction. You can keep things inherent to the DNA of Star Wars (rooting for the underdog, hope, adventure, good vs evil, etc) without re-using the exact same moments and details (no new Death Stars). Into Darkness did none of thos ethings and was super disappointing as a result.

JJ isn't involved in TLJ, but the same fear is there for me.
 
Yes all that did happen, in canon, leading up to TFA. The fact remains it's still looking like TLJ, in conjunction with the rest of canon, is taking us back to status quo (i.e. the OT), with the First Order (i.e. the Empire) in power and the resistance (i.e. the Alliance) struggling to take back the galaxy. Sure the details are different - we know who Kylo Ren is under the mask, Luke has lost all hope (vs. Obi-Wan having a hope in Luke), Snoke is so far a coward (while the emperor was front and center), etc - but the broad strokes are basically the same, and that's a shame imo.

Say what you will about the prequels, at least they dared to be different.

Hm... *riffles through The Phantom Menace* Kid on desert planet blah blah blah... excellent pilot blah blah blah... strong in the Force blah blah blah... wants to be a Jedi blah blah blah... faceless impersonal enemy blah blah blah... plucky courageous underdogs blah blah blah... main reactor taken out with a couple torpedoes, destroying big round maguffin that saves the day blah blah blah... everyone has a party with music. *puts it down* Yup. Totally different from ANH. :p I seem to also recall the hero kid losing his right hand to a bad guy's lightsaber in the second movie of the trilogy.

In general, they had to get back to some semblance of that state of unbalanced conflict. Stability is boring. That was one of the things that pissed me off about the Jedi Academy Trilogy. The New Republic is supposedly doing pretty okay. Daala emerges from the Maw with three standard Star Destroyers and everyone flips the **** out. That shouldn't have been any kind of credible threat to an established galactic government. The books need lack of stability to be dramatically interesting, but no one ever really got that right on a galactic scale in the books except Zahn in the Thrawn Trilogy -- and that was because he just reversed the roles. The New Republic were the Empire and Thrawn's forces were the hit-and-run underdog Rebellion. Sort of what they're doing in the new movies, just with the First Order.

(Also, the Emperor was far from front and center. We only saw him for the first time in person in ROTJ.)

--Jonah
 
Hm... *riffles through The Phantom Menace* Kid on desert planet blah blah blah... excellent pilot blah blah blah... strong in the Force blah blah blah... wants to be a Jedi blah blah blah... faceless impersonal enemy blah blah blah... plucky courageous underdogs blah blah blah... main reactor taken out with a couple torpedoes, destroying big round maguffin that saves the day blah blah blah... everyone has a party with music. *puts it down* Yup. Totally different from ANH. :p I seem to also recall the hero kid losing his right hand to a bad guy's lightsaber in the second movie of the trilogy.

In general, they had to get back to some semblance of that state of unbalanced conflict. Stability is boring. That was one of the things that pissed me off about the Jedi Academy Trilogy. The New Republic is supposedly doing pretty okay. Daala emerges from the Maw with three standard Star Destroyers and everyone flips the **** out. That shouldn't have been any kind of credible threat to an established galactic government. The books need lack of stability to be dramatically interesting, but no one ever really got that right on a galactic scale in the books except Zahn in the Thrawn Trilogy -- and that was because he just reversed the roles. The New Republic were the Empire and Thrawn's forces were the hit-and-run underdog Rebellion. Sort of what they're doing in the new movies, just with the First Order.

(Also, the Emperor was far from front and center. We only saw him for the first time in person in ROTJ.)

--Jonah

I imagine they would freak out. The JA set was only a few years after ROTJ and the Republic was still mopping up. After that amount of time there wouldn't be much confidence that such an appearance wouldn't rouse imperial supporters around the galaxy that might have gone into hiding, or blended in to escape post war retribution or prosecution.

But after such a scenario, it'd be completely foolish to totally disarm. THAT opens the door to anyone to come in and just blast you away And that's what the New Republic did in TFA. Basically shut down the military and wouldn't discuss it and blew off the FO as either irrelevant or adhering to the treaty. They seemingly took the dumbest decisions you could make. In the clone wars, the army turned against them because they were clones programmed to follow the orders of one person. No way that's possible with enlisted members of the forces. You could wind up with factions, but not everyone turning on you....so apparently for TFA they made the government just amazingly stupid.
 
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