Warped Fiberglass

Discussion in 'General Modeling' started by Miker545, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Ok Fiberglass. I keep getting mixed answers.
    Can a fiberglass/resin helm be warped in the mail?
    Once it is Warped can it be reshaped?
    Can you reshape it with a heatgun/hairdryer?

    I keep getting different answers from everyone I ask so hopefully someone will know here and I'll be able to get an answer. LOL I hope the answer to all of them is yes.
     
  2. Coinprop

    Coinprop Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it can be warped in the mail. If it was sent befor it was "cured".
    When fiberglass has cured, it can not take another shape.. unless You brake it.
    And it will not work with a hairdyer or heatgun...sorry.

    "Fiberglass" are cunstrukted with polyester resin AND fiberglass, the fiberglass are what it sounds like thin thin glass that are put together.
    Polyester resin are kind of brittle without a fiberglass strip, but if You mix them together the are strong as hell.

    Hope this helps.
    And I get a feeling that You wanted another answer. :lol Sorry

    T
     
  3. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Cured? How do you cure it? Also I guess I posted this in the wrong section ment to put it in the prop. Its a helm. Also are you sure? If it is I'm going to have to get my money back and if i can fix it I wont thats why its so important for me to find out.
     
  4. Coinprop

    Coinprop Well-Known Member

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    Cure. You know hardened, toughened, tempered...
    When the plastic is hard. :)

    And I am very sure that after that the FG cant warp. That is one reason why You put fiberglas in there.

    T
     
  5. Coinprop

    Coinprop Well-Known Member

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    BTW..do You have any picture of the "damage"?
    Maybe it's not that bad?.
    T
     
  6. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Yah but you cant see the dammage to well in photos. It's bad enough to make the helmet uterly unusable though. Physicaly and visualy. Now your sure about that ive got a pm wating to be answered by another helmet maker for a 2nd check. So cured is just after its been dried and after that its not realy moldable. If that is the case then I'm definatly going to be geting my money back he claimed i could easly fix it. Its lookin more and more like ive been stiff armed here. I'll edit this post in a min with a pic of the helm.

    EDIT: Here you go
    [​IMG]
    I'm getting ready to post a reveiw on this guy to so that he dosnt do this to anyone else I'm just waiting till i get my facts strait and everything gets resolved.

    I wouldn't be so mad if the entire helm wasn't a shotty job though but oh well I've learned a good leason from this at least.

    thanks for the help.
     
  7. knightdriver2001

    knightdriver2001 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have been working and dealing with fiberglass parts for years.

    I have seen KITT (Knight Rider) dash boards warp after years of being in the sun
    but only slightly. The same goes for custom car bumpers. But, A part of that size
    would have to have come out of the mold that way.

    Either his master had these problems, or his part lifted a bit while being laid up.
    If you get another and find the same problems, then I would say his mold has
    these issues. The helmet would then need to be filled in and perfected, then
    recasted properly to get a nice one.

    Inproperly mixing the resin will cause problems as well. I have heard it before.
    Anyone can splash resin and cloth together, but if it isn't done properly, it isn't
    worth the time put into it.

    Keep us posted on what happens with things.
     
  8. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Well i saw the original get sculpted and saw the first helm that came out and it was nice but mine is olmost entierly flat on the right side or the top part in the pic. And he is no longer making the helm and refused a refund so I'll have to see what he thinks of my new foundings.
     
  9. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Well then i finaly tracked down the exact items its mad eof or i think i did.

    Kit is fiberglass/bondo resin mix and 1/1 scale.
    or
    Using a silicone mold with a fiberglass mothermold jacket to hold the shape.

    It's one of them blah this guy dosnt seem to know what hes using anymore than me.
     
  10. Chris Martin

    Chris Martin Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you can deform fibreglass with heat particularly if it's only a few weeks old. Technically, it takes nearly thirty days for fibreglass to fully chemically cure. It's been known for fibreglass cars in California to distort in the hottest of summers. Use a heat gun and you'll soon see how soft (relatively) it can get. However it is far more heat resistant than most plastics. It also depends how thick the lay up is and what quantity of "filler" has been added to any of the layers.
     
  11. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Well this should have been well over 2 months old at least.
     
  12. Coinprop

    Coinprop Well-Known Member

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    I woulden't try heating it back to shape. I dont think that works, and if it should bend slightly it will not look nice.
    I would clame a new one from the maker.

    T
     
  13. Chris Martin

    Chris Martin Well-Known Member

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    That would be the safest and right thing to do. It shouldn't be your problem.
     
  14. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    No refunds and he's not making them any more best i could get is him to do more work and I found someone else who had one of his helms and he did some reforming to his as well with a heat gun. So I guess thats the best I can do.
     
  15. knightdriver2001

    knightdriver2001 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Convenient that he stopped making them after you got yours and he refuses a
    refund. If someone pulled that with me, I would restore that one as best I could,
    and make my own mold off it. Or have it done if you can not yourself.

    I know recasting is considered a NO NO, but he seems to be ripping you off.
    So you gotta do what you gotta do, right. I guess as long as you didn't turn
    around and sell them, your safe. I to, would also tell people to be cautious
    in dealing with him.

    Sounds to me like he knew youwere sent a bad part and doesn't wanna take
    respocibility for it. Sorry to see you got shafted.

    (Edited for crappy spelling. LOL)
     
  16. Coinprop

    Coinprop Well-Known Member

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    I think You should demand him to make and send You a new one, OR get You hard money back...
    A deffect helmet was NOT what You paid for, so if he tell's You that he stopped making them...well that might be true BUT he must still have the mold?.

    What's his excuse?

    T
     
  17. dano

    dano Well-Known Member

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    Another sure fire way of warpage is if the gel coat has been left for a while before laying up the matting.
     
  18. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    I would but this stuff abviusly is warped by heat i cheacked and someone with the same helm has had problems with it warping on the way to him and has fixed it with a symple hair drier.
    Is there anyway might be able to fix this up so it isnt so easly warped incase i have to ship it to a convention or new home or somthing of the likes or if i just decide to sell it?
    So I can't say for sure it didn't happen in the mail and its itherfix this helm my self or send it back to him to fix which will cost another 10 -13 bucks plus waiting and sence I've made him mad by already aking for a refund I don't feel sending it back for work would be a verry smart thing to do.
    Don't wory I will be posting a review on him verry soon just as soon as everything gets settled down and I make sure my facts are strait.

    Mike

    Jeesh what a way to enter the prop collecting world. :lol
     
  19. MightyMorphinPR

    MightyMorphinPR New Member

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    In my experiences, the only time we got a helmet that "warped" was when the hardener went bad and it didn't set at all....I've never seen a helmet that was properly cured to get warped by heat. I've heard lots of complaints about this item though. Halves not fitting together...when it's supposed to be finished...horrible to customers, and does not take criticism lightly. Just do what you gotta do to get your money back. If it was me, I would give a refund, or make a new one. It's the humane thing to do.
     
  20. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    I received one of these kits (And that means it wasn't cut, wasn't painted, etc.. it is what it is... A KIT) and there was some small warping from heat, but nothing that wasn't easily fixed with a heat gun. The person who did this one for me (which is the same guy obviously since he is the only one that does these) said that it has sat in the sun after he moved, and that's where the warping occured, but I was fine with this since I got it at the low price I did.

    The helmet is excellent in my opinion, but just like ANY kit, weather it be a gun, a prop, a figure, that is not finished, then you are going to have to put work into it to make it look like what you wanted.

    I'm going to enjoy working on mine and making a nice display piece.

    Berry
     
  21. MightyMorphinPR

    MightyMorphinPR New Member

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    It would take an extreme amount of sunlight to melt cured filberglass (if it were even possible). Where does he live...Hell? I just hope Miker545 gets some compensation.
     
  22. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned in this thread it technically takes 30 days for this stuff to fully chemically cure. Granted, I have not worked with fiberglass resin and the like and don't know all of the specs But it could be possible if it were left in direct sunlight in a car (since he did move recently) or in a window, something like that.

    But the heat gun technique works, I'm happy with mine. You just gotta know what you are doing with a helmet kit to finish it as I'm sure you are aware.

    Berry
     
  23. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Well I was waiting three months and payed the grand total of 400 bucks for it I payed extra to get it "cut and sanded" Pretty much wene it got to me I was expecting to have maby a little sanding to be done, some priming, painting and then adding the clips and hinges.
    Not reforming, filling, dremeling, alot of fine sanding and then priming painting and hinging.
    Should have been old enough to be cured and this "THICK casting." Direct quote off his message. Is verry THIN I can see a half dead flash light through the mouth peice.
    But I'm not ready to put the final report up on this yet as things are still being descovered and worked out.
     
  24. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    But cutting and sanding is just that... cutting it in half and sanding away some of the major rough spots.

    Even then its a kit and you would have to sand and prime depending on your method of construction and painting.

    Hope it gets sorted out.

    Berry
     
  25. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well Ive got to speak up about this, Im not going to hide and let people start running wild with this without the facts. I dont check this forum area so I hadnt seen it.

    You mentioned in your new thread that it was uterly unwearable... yet in your first email you mentioned how it cutinto your neck, so you put it on, wearable. the ONLY reason you would need to dremel ANYTHING is the neck that you say dug into you, and that is something that has nothing to do with me, the helmet fit me when I put it on, if you have a thicker neck, how was i going to know? I never got customized measurements for you, its not exactly a one size fits all kind of thing, its a helmet replica. And you dont need a heatgun, a hair dryer would work fine, and I wouldnt have known you would have needed even that, it was NOT WARPED when i sent it. I would not have sent an "uterly" warped and unwearable helmet, im not THAT stupid. This helmet was casted months ago, most of the time after that was finishing the sanding and cutting, i dremeled ALOT inside that helmet, you can tell, because it was made too thick in some areas (thicker is better than thinner) and to make it stronger and then dremeled out for wearability and test fitted.

    I dont see any warpage in that picture, does anyone else? The mold is not warped and I did cut the two parts. When you cut the front from the back, a few milimeters turn to dust, right? Well if there IS any non-matching, that would be why. Even my personal finished helmet has this. This was a fiberglass/bondo mix and ive been able to heat months old fiberglass and warp it, even a helmet i had sitting on the floor once after a few weeks had gotten a flat side, and it was fully cured. If this mix seems to have problems warping then I now know to change what I use, but ive never got complaints from people before so Ive not been aware of it, been using this mix for over a year. I do still have the mold, but with my luck he would not be happy with a new one either. He also complained about the actual sculpt of the helmet... something he has no right to do after that fact as he saw detailed pictures from every angle as it was being sculpted as he admited, and knew what the helmet would look like.

    PS:MightyMorphinPR, i expected you to pop up, youre record isnt spotless either, ive heard of countless of your helmets actually showing up SHATTERED and then you bribing the buyers with more helmets so they dont go public with the problem, so dont try laying your act on me. Not to mention your recasting history...
     
  26. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    I was just commenting incase you wanted to know about the actual details and by unwearable I was refering to the fact that it would be an eyesore and would be unwearible.
     
  27. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    when i look at that picture dead on, it looks round and it looks just like my finished helmet, i dont see any caving in or flattening anywhere, unless youve got some better pictures or something, i really cant see what youre describing.
     
  28. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yours[​IMG]

    Mine[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I really dont see it Mike, Im sorry, it looks perfectly wearable and fine to me.
     
  29. punisher

    punisher Sr Member

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    hmm, as much as i hate you Jason, (lol j/k buddy) your right, it looks perfectly fine to me also. i guess some people do not realize that a kit actually needs work, that is why it is a KIT.
     
  30. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thankyou, and that is exactly right. Admitedly he did pay an extra 40 for the cutting of the visor, more sanding from a raw casting and extra work i did to the inside for comfort, but it is still a kit and if some things need to be changed to fit him and there are thigns he didnt like about the original sculpt, thats part of finishing the kit.
     
  31. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Plus if you showed him all the pictures... ha can't really complain about the sculpt since he paid for what he saw. So to him... it was obviously not an eyesore to begin with.

    Berry
     
  32. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Wow I just make some points incase he ever wants to make his better and I'm blamed for not likeing the helm.
    I loved the helm entill I realized how deformed it was the camera is dead I'll have some more picks up later. none the less had i goten this helm compleatly finished from him I dought the end result would have been any better. I would think it would still be deformed porrly sanded and poorly made trust me I know what a kit is and I know this isn't the worst anyone has ever goten but I do know it was a far cry from what I was paying for.
    However the funny thing is and i quote "Your helmet will be going out in the mail tomarrow. I havent had the time to prime it, but since youll be painting it anyway, thats nothing hard to do, just primer paint. " Reinforcing again that what I had payed for was a helm cut and sanded ready to be primed and painted.
    What I got needs much sanding as well as some reinforsment in many areas as parts of this helm are neerly paper thin especial around the mouth peice.
    final coat is pretty much none existant on most of the top visor area and mouth peice I'll be sure to get verry good pics of this soon as the camera is availible.
    If it were just one or two things
    I wouldn't have even bothered with anything but this helm is overall not good.
    I've seen his work it's good Verry good this just wasn't and he didn't take mine telling him that verry well.
     
  33. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    you werent just making points for future reference, yours out to publicly complain and make me out to be a con artist. Your helmet was ready to paint when i sent it. Once primed you wouldnt have needed much sanding, stuff looks rough until you at least prime it. The dremeling and sanding you think are needed are only because you said it didnt fit your neck which is out of my control. If there were other problems that were small and needed sanding, thats very simple to do and i offered to do it for you. You turned it down, so i really dont know what you want.
     
  34. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    and blamed for not liking the helm? this entire thread is you bashing it, how can you say im just blaming you for not liking it? Please get your views straight on this and get back to me, im tired of running in circles with you after offering you options and trying to make you happy.
     
  35. MightyMorphinPR

    MightyMorphinPR New Member

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    um. WRONG there buddy. If I make a mistake, or the post office damages something. I COMPENSATE. I do not tell my customers to shove it like you do. I help them. AND I'm not a recaster. I recasted a helmet when I first started...but NOT to make a profit, I did it to make sure I knew how to mold. That's all. The helmet you're referring to was your White ranger helmet...which by the way I used as a plaster bucket in the end...as that's all it was good for.

    I recasted it to fix it. Another mistake you made and another customer you shafted.

    And don't act so innocent, I get over 15 pms a week from people complaining about what you send them and they come to us for help because they know we don't leave people in the dark like you do. you just want their money...and after that you don't want to know them.

    Not to turn this thread into a fight or anything, I hope Miker gets compensated... A word that's obviosly NOT in your dictionary.
     
  36. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    no, you just hope i get publicly humiliated and out of prop making so you have no competition. You're compensation is nothing short of bribes and your innocent recasting is still just that, recasting, whether its to "fix" something as you say or learn, ive seen you sell the front of my white ranger helmet on ebay. And its odd that you get that many pms, as ive NEVER gotten one email or pm complaint, I only hear back from people who like their helmets. And I didnt just shut out Mike, i offered to fix the helmet and he turned it down. I also gave him a pile of extra props for the time he waited, its not as simple as you make it. Youre sure not afraid of fighting when its on rangerboard, do you have something to hide when you post here?

    EDIT: Also, i dont believe i ever saw your pictures of sculpting your wildforce or spaceranger helmets. They were clearly recasts that youve made hundreds on. I know others do the same thing for helmets here, but all im saying is dont point your finger at me when youre just as guilty of other proping taboos, Ive had enough of you bashing my work endlessly and even profiting from it.
     
  37. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    okay, stepping in here...

    This seems to be between Miker545 and Kylash327. Everyone else, stop instigating.

    Miker, charge up your camera and post more detailed pictures. Until then, I don't want to see people bickering when they're not even involved. I especially don't want to see unsubstantiated claims that you can't back up with evidence. Personal attacks wont fix any helmet, and should stay out of this thread.

    Miker, we'll be waiting for your pictures.
     
  38. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Thier comming sorry its taking so long should be up by tomarow evening.
     
  39. Miker545

    Miker545 New Member

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    Sorry about it taking so long I seemed to be running into problem after problem latly. But here they are.
    Heres the warping.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Then some pics of the inside for you.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now the fine sanding and the filling/reinforcment I mentioned.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Picture three shows the part that I need to fix up and 5 shows the reenforsing that I mentioned. In the mouths left side there was a hole that he did fill in though still its thiner than the rest of the mouth peice.
     
  40. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I still dont see a single hint of warping, which is what this thread is titled, im sorry man, but its just not warped.
     
  41. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    and that inside looking bad, thats grinding down one of the inside layers because it was too thick, if i hadnt done that you wouldnt have been able to wear it because they were drips that become hard and then poke you when you wear it, its on the inside and will be covered with padding anyway.
     
  42. punisher

    punisher Sr Member

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    Kylash, it IS your fault his heck is bigger than yours and you SHOULD give him a FULL refund and let him keep the helmet. I do not see one bit of warping. maybe he is saying the inside is not perfectly smooth?0_0
    its the INSIDE of the helmet, no one will ever see it. and yes, the padding covers it up.

    this all could have been settled through PM. Although, there's nothing to really settle...

    just my .02
    Scott
     
  43. knightdriver2001

    knightdriver2001 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I really can't see the warping either.

    I do see variations in the sculpt as well as thickness of the
    helmets varies in places but the photo's do not show any
    warping? You'll have to highlight the area's in the pictures
    so we know what we are looking at.
     
  44. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Um.. why should Kylash give him a refund because this guy has a different sized neck than what the helmet wat originally sculpted for?

    This is a KIT. If you want it to fit you, then you have to work on it yourself to fit it to your measurements. It's not Kylash's responsibility to get neck measurements for every single person who wants one.

    I can see if someone commisioned him to finish the whole thing for them and they requested him to cut the neck hole bigger, but then it would be more money for labor.

    Bottomline is if you aren't willing to put the time and effort to finish a kit for yourself... then what's the point of buying it? That's just laziness to me.

    I don't see the warping that this guy is describing. There needs to be highlights to point this out like knightdriver said.

    Berry
     
  45. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    like ive said before, ive already offered to fix it but the offer was turned down. And Mike has already said he isnt complaining about his helmet, just informing other people who want to buy them. Well Ive stopped doing them for a little while now sinvce ive moved and no longer have the work area to do these. Point is, ive offered compensation aside from the extra pile of props he got but thats not what its about, he just wants to prove a point aparently, but i still see nothing. I think this thread is getting pointless and Im going to stop defending myself again something I dont even see. If Mike has more problems with this, he has ways to contact me, which is how this should have been handled in the first place.
     
  46. punisher

    punisher Sr Member

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    someone cannot detect sarcasm... :lol
     
  47. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    LOL sorry, seems this was a touchy thing with some people.

    Berry
     

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