Warning!!!! Bad Auction!!!!

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by atacpdx, Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. atacpdx

    atacpdx Well-Known Member

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    http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-RKO-King-Kong-Gas...1QQcmdZViewItem

    "Dish_Man" ie DSTINES has decided to take our own PropRunner's hard work and generosity and run a batch of Kong grenades without even so much as a "Thanks" or "May I" and is using Gabe's photos to boot. He then has the nerve to email me and say it is ethical and acceptable because Gabe posted the files here for all of our personal use and enjoyment. (Ever wonder why so many here with info don't share?) :(

    I hope you will all drop him an email via ebay and let him know it isn't cool.
     
  2. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ....nice :rolleyes :angry .
     
  3. wolverine solo

    wolverine solo Well-Known Member

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    not cool by any means. what a low thing to do.
     
  4. franz bolo

    franz bolo Sr Member

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    So is it cast off an original?

    He stated twice that it was cast off the original prop.

    "This is a casting made directly off of the original screen used prop with the owners permission."

    If so is he only using Prop Runners Diagram?

    FB
     
  5. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    Definetly not cool. Gabe gave up his hardwork for people here to you for free and this #*&$%@ is trying to make a profit of it.

    Not cool at all.
     
  6. atacpdx

    atacpdx Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't have an original. He is doing this off of PropRunner's work and using PropRunner's photos in the auction to boot as near as I can tell from emails with him.
     
  7. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    Seems like he's saying it's cast off an original. What's the problem then?
     
  8. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    Notice Prop Runner's prints that he supplied to the RPF in his pictures on the auction...
     
  9. atacpdx

    atacpdx Well-Known Member

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    The problem Kerr is that he is using Gabe's blueprints to add "authenticity" to his photos, when emailed, could provide no "provenance" to back up his claims and also, when asked to remaove the prints from his photo's essentially said * off.
     
  10. franz bolo

    franz bolo Sr Member

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    It looks like it was a cast. There are wood grain patterns in the grenade. It doesn't look machined or crafted either.

    So the problem seems to be with using Prop Runners diagram in the auction and not with using the specs that were drawn up.

    FB
     
  11. THEWRAPOFCONS

    THEWRAPOFCONS Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure but I think if someone should be e-mailing him asking him to remove that pic from the auction it should be Gabe. If he is not selling this picture on ebay I dont really see any reason to be implying he is doing something wrong.
     
  12. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    Mark: he's selling cheap hollow recasts of the original prop - that's undisputed. They are 100% accurate, while mine is an idealized replica (albiet constructed from wood, like the screen-used original). He's simply using my blueprint (ironically, derived from measurements off a casting of an original sold by PF) to embelish his item description. He's not making any claims to the blueprint, but it's obvious he wants bidders to assume a direct association.

    I sent him this note via eBay yesterday, but have not heard back:

    I just hope his bidders don't expect a copy of the blueprint, because it will be dated 12/21/05 and labeled "PROP RUNNER REPLICAS," unless Stines edits the PDF file. Besides, I don't think they had 3D CAD back in 1933... :lol

    I do appreciate the supportive comments, and I have absolutely no regrets putting out that blueprint as a freebie. I believe in karma, and since DStines is an associate of PF (who is probably his supplier for this auction), he'll get his due at some point. ;) It actually makes me warm and fuzzy to think that the former T2 license holder and his pal have to resort to blatantly using my work to move a resin casting. :p

    And as a firm believer in the Tinseltown rule that there's no such thing as bad publicity, if anyone would like to check out the wooden gas bomb replicas based on my blueprint, check out my Junkyard thread:

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=101960

    :D

    - Gabe
     
  13. lambotour

    lambotour Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    IMHO it doesn't look to have the same shape as the original shown and it appears that he got wind of this thread because he has just lowered the price considerably. As long as Gabe doesn't have a problem with it , neither do I, but thanks atacpdx for looking out for a fellow member. :thumbsup
     
  14. westbatman

    westbatman New Member

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    Does someone know for sure if these are recast or is it just speculation? I guess I'm confused as to what wrong has been done.

    Andy
     
  15. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    It's really quite simple, Andy: no-one disputes the seller's right to recast a screen-used prop and sell his replicas on eBay - we do it here all the time in one form or another, unless there's a licensee like MR or Sideshow whose rights we collectively, for the most part, agree to respect.

    At issue here is the seller using someone else's work (in this case, my blueprint) without so much as asking permission or giving me due credit, in order to promote and embelish his eBay auction, when it's clear to all that my work has nothing to do with his recasts.

    It's generally bad form to use someone else's replicas or pictures to promote an eBay auction, let alone without asking first for the owner's permission or blessing. At the very least it's dishonorable, but strictly speaking, it's deceptive advertising.

    Hope I helped clear things up for you. :)

    - Gabe
     
  16. RedTwoX

    RedTwoX Sr Member

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    Gabe responded while I was typing this. I differ to his answer (which is, more or less, what I typed up anyway)
     
  17. Montagar

    Montagar Legendary Member Community Staff

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    I think that the confusion is coming from the fact that the first post of this thread appears to be an accusation of recasting or using Prop RunnerÂ’s blue prints to make a grenade with a secondary mention of "and is using Gabe's photos to boot."

    As it has been subsequently explained in the thread, the issue is the seller using a picture that is not his property and refuses to remove it from the auction. I have had this happen to me (it really makes you feel taken advantage of) and the seller also refused to remove the pictures. You can file a complaint with ebay but I am not sure how responsive they are to things like this.

    Anyway, I think that the original post and thread title are unfortunately a bit misleading and will probably leave many people thinking that this is a recasting issue instead of the real issue which is the very annoying practice of sellers using someone else's photos to sell their goods (can't they take their own pictures, is that too much to ask? :rolleyes ).
     
  18. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ....yeah, that's what I thought at first as well...recasting....

    However, the seller still shouldn't be posting Gabe's pix in his auction....just bad form.
     
  19. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    Looks like the diagram is not in the auction anymore.
     
  20. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    As of 7:44 Pacific Standard Time, 12/29/05, they sure as hell are. Here is a direct link to the auction photo:

    [​IMG]

    [Edit]: this photo has now been replaced (see auction). An even earlier version, which the seller shrewdly replaced, showed more of the blueprint with the title block bearing my name (GABRIEL GALT), the date (12/21/05), and my DBA (PROP RUNNER REPLICAS).

    Here's a thumbnail image of my blueprint:

    [​IMG]

    (the 1:1 scale .pdf file is ANSI C size, but it can be downsized during the printing preferenes to fit an 8x10 sheet, like the one shown by DStines in his auction).

    - Gabe
     
  21. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Using someone else's pics in one's auction without the consent of the artist is bad form indeed... Though the blueprint is made free to the public, it's still a matter of trust and integrity.

    Nevertheless, the thread subject line may still be read as that DStines is "ripping members off" by selling his roto-cast replicas... as the thread has gone off on a slightly different tangent, it might be a good idea to change the title.
     
  22. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    This one isn't there anymore. The computer-generated one. Or did I just dream that? Hellz. He does seem to be rubbing it in with his comments. Bad bad bad.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nope. As of this writing, the blueprint is still there... but now DStines has added a direct link to the RPF together with an explanation, which includes the following:


    "Want a FREE Blueprint of the Grenade?

    I have been contacted by several people about the drawing in the background.

    This is a neat but inaccurate drawing based on a 3rd generation cast of the original prop
    which makes it dimensions small overall compared to the real prop.

    The drawing is not part of the auction or description but has been provided free of charge
    and without restrictions to all by the author."
     
  24. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    And just now, I received a reply to my 2nd eBay e-mail:

    :eek

    I don't know about you guys, but DStines has certainly earned himself a pair of these:

    [​IMG]

    :lol

    This episode has worn me out... But at least several individuals' true colors have emerged today, so I figure the price I paid was worth it. :)

    - Gabe
     
  25. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The dimensions of the real prop are known by many now.

    Gabe didn't invent the item or discover anything new. He drew it up in cad. Let's say that again; "He drew a picture." A photo based on measurements of a screen prop. While it was indeed a nice thing for him to do it was hardly necessary for someone to use his drawing to recreate this prop. C'mon'...It's a simple piece.

    I do agree, using someone's pics without permission is bad form but I'd hardly say the guy recast anything...Let's not get crazy with our terms here. Drawing a photo doesn't make an item "belong" to anyone. Using the pic is a little shifty but not the act of making the item. The prop itself is fair game. Even the movie is in public domain.

    Hell, I'm making a few gas bomb replicas myself. I think Gabe did a fine job but I want to do a thing or two different with mine. I have no need for cad drawings. if I did, I'd pay to have a set drawn up and off to Asia the info would go. Truth is, they just aren't necessary and gabe was trying to do something nice for a few board members.

    The call to arms on this thread was just a little over the top in my opinion but, hey; he did use the guys pics without permission which does indeed hit me wrong, too.

    I have no dog in this fight and just take issue with the "recast" word that is getting tossed about a little too fast these days.

    You can't recast a cad drawing. I am curious to know if Gabe will consider anyone who makes these to have violated the spirit of his gift?

    Will the implication now be, "You used Gabe's drawing" if the replica is accurate? Gabe got his dimensions from a screen prop. How did he all of the sudden become the authority of this piece?

    Not attacking Gabe but just ponting out how easy it is for people to get a false sense of ownership in the prop world. It was a nice gesture on Gabe's part but I would caution him to place limitations (in writing) on his drawings if he feels others will use them in the future.
     
  26. rocketeer25

    rocketeer25 Sr Member

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    I think you nailed it, Rylo.

    Gabe,

    I'm sorry that you got taken advantage of in this fashion, and I'm glad that your images have been removed from the auction in question.

    It seems that some tempers flared up here tonight (always seems to be the same people, too :unsure ). I've pulled a lot of the off-topic posts out of this thread and will lock this one up.

    Lonnie
    RPF Staff
     
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