Vader Helmet Opinions Sought

[LeAngeSolitaire]

Last year I was visiting an old propmaker acquaintance that had worked in the film and TV industry. Whilst inside his garage I casually spied a dusty helmet in the corner surrounded by a lot of other junk from his working days. This, on further inspection was a pretty raw pull of a Vader helmet that he had lying around for nearly two decades.

I spoke to him today and he sent over the pictures he has been promising me for the past six months together with a little bit of background as to how he obtained it. I originally thought he had made it but it actually turns out that this helmet was a pull from what is believed to be the original ROTJ moulds that was obtained from an ex-colleague of his that had cast it from the moulds on the sly for use as a personal memento. My friend thinks it was about 20 years or so ago it was cast and the exact circumstances in which it happened have been lost to time. The moulds were either in Shepperton or Pinewood and were labelled as being from ROTJ.

Since neither of us or even the guy who cast the lid were die-hard fans of Star Wars or Vader, I would love to hear your opinions as to what EXACTLY we have here. The reason why I am asking is that my buddy is bout to start restoring this thing and finishing it for his display so before he starts sanding and hacking at we wanted to make sure it wasn't valuable or important.

 

[defstartrooper]

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[LeAngeSolitaire]

More pics...

 

[CSMacLaren]

It's a nice looking prop you got there, but I don't think it's direct off of the screen-used original. There are many telltale signs of modifications, for example, to the eyes, nose bridge, forward cheek surfaces (and hence whiskers), and the neck length. Further, the chin triangle - though filled in - does not appear to be correctly positioned. Moreover, the teeth pattern remind me of a Don Post Deluxe. Also, the neck looks like a Don Post Deluxe with the flared ends cut off.

The bridge of the nose looks very compressed, when you look at the notches.

The helmet isn't too bad looking. There's some good mid strip detail. One photo suggests it has a subtle ESB influence.

Also the top of the mask - although I'm not an ROTJ reveal expert, the dome receiver seems too wide, and the top surface's gradient seems too shallow.

So if it had any basis on the original, it's been so sanded down that it's now not quite what it could have been.

 

[LeAngeSolitaire]

It's a nice looking prop you got there, but I don't think it's direct off of the screen-used original. There are many telltale signs of modifications, for example, to the eyes, nose bridge, forward cheek surfaces (and hence whiskers), and the neck length. Further, the chin triangle - though filled in - does not appear to be correctly positioned. Moreover, the teeth pattern remind me of a Don Post Deluxe. Also, the neck looks like a Don Post Deluxe with the flared ends cut off.

The bridge of the nose looks very compressed, when you look at the notches.

The helmet isn't too bad looking. There's some good mid strip detail. One photo suggests it has a subtle ESB influence.

Also the top of the mask - although I'm not an ROTJ reveal expert, the dome receiver seems too wide, and the top surface's gradient seems too shallow.

So if it had any basis on the original, it's been so sanded down that it's now not quite what it could have been.

Thanks for your input. I am attaching some pics of the chin which show that it hasn't been filled in but is actually a score line in the sculpt. The surfaces are flush.

Also, it is not vac formed but as you can also see, is fibreglassed.

 

[GINO]

Certainly a weird looking piece.
Looks like a possible recast of a fanmade vader reveal helmet.

Definitely does not match up to any of the helmets from the original trilogy.


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[LeAngeSolitaire]

Certainly a weird looking piece.
Looks like a possible recast of a fanmade vader reveal helmet.

Definitely does not match up to any of the helmets from the original trilogy.


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Were there fan pieces around 20 years ago? And why would a studio have moulds marked as being from ROTJ? This is what I can't get my head around. I know that neither the owner of the helmet or the original caster are lying since they have no reason to. Either way, this helmet is going to get finished so I figure it would be interesting to get an opinion from Vader boffins, perhaps even Brian Muir himself?

 

[LeAngeSolitaire]

Just found this on Flickr and the helmet matches this one is many, many areas. One thing that intrigues me is that given that this is a 20 year old casting, the reference material to make a perfect reveal replica was not around at that time.

 

[jme3]

One thing that intrigues me is that given that this is a 20 year old casting, the reference material to make a perfect reveal replica was not around at that time.

And sadly, still isn't.

 

[LeAngeSolitaire]

I'm attaching some higher res pics. Having looked at the exhibition reveal lid in the Flickr pics above and comparing to the pics I have, I can see matches in many key areas, such as the top of the dome (even though it has been sanded down quite drastically), the nose bridge ridges, the cheeks, the brows, the slats (which match perfectly to the screen used one) and the weird contours and imperfections which abound. Quite simply, I don't think the means to make such a replica existed 20 years ago. I am convinced that they are from the same moulds.

 

[CSMacLaren]

We don't mean to rain on your parade there, but many people can say the same about the 50+ different makes of fan-vendor Vader helmets out there. Apart from the obvious generic traits, yes it's Vader, and yes it's a reveal mask. But you have to look beyond the obvious and study flow, proportions, lengths, etc.

For example, your comment that the dome top matches, even though upon cursory view it looks too wide to me. You also said the slats match perfectly and yet they look compressed to me.

This is not a perfect overlay (it's late and I have to get to bed) but hopefully it will illustrate the issues I am seeing with this mask.

I've approximately matched the width of your mask's left eye. However, the eyebrow shape of the Reveal mask is wrong. It ends too sharply and too far down. The notches do not line up; they look compressed (see "A").

With "B", the upside-down "U" of the Reveal's nose has been reworked to where the telltale subtle shape of the screen-used has been eradicated.

"C" indicates that the cheek has been oversanded, and now the whisker is skinny. Notice also extra material added to the right of the cheek.

"D" is what I spoke of earlier. The neck length has been compromised, and it appears much shorter than the screen-used.

The bulge of the head is drastically reduced on the Reveal.

It's a great fan mod. I have no doubt your friend believes this is of 20 years ago, but is he absolutely sure nobody swapped his mask out over the last 20 years?

 

[LeAngeSolitaire]

We don't mean to rain on your parade there, but many people can say the same about the 50+ different makes of fan-vendor Vader helmets out there. Apart from the obvious generic traits, yes it's Vader, and yes it's a reveal mask. But you have to look beyond the obvious and study flow, proportions, lengths, etc.

For example, your comment that the dome top matches, even though upon cursory view it looks too wide to me. You also said the slats match perfectly and yet they look compressed to me.

This is not a perfect overlay (it's late and I have to get to bed) but hopefully it will illustrate the issues I am seeing with this mask.

I've approximately matched the width of your mask's left eye. However, the eyebrow shape of the Reveal mask is wrong. It ends too sharply and too far down. The notches do not line up; they look compressed (see "A").

With "B", the upside-down "U" of the Reveal's nose has been reworked to where the telltale subtle shape of the screen-used has been eradicated.

"C" indicates that the cheek has been oversanded, and now the whisker is skinny. Notice also extra material added to the right of the cheek.

"D" is what I spoke of earlier. The neck length has been compromised, and it appears much shorter than the screen-used.

The bulge of the head is drastically reduced on the Reveal.

It's a great fan mod. I have no doubt your friend believes this is of 20 years ago, but is he absolutely sure nobody swapped his mask out over the last 20 years?

Why does everything like this have to descend into a parade? In your comparison pic it would make sense if you compared it to the Vader head that it is supposed to, ie. The reveal head . I have no idea what the DS 20th century Is but I can see it's different. And no, no one has switched out my friend's Vader unless they sneaked into his garage and waded through the detritus of 20 years of family life for a raw casting. I can see exactly what it is and having seen the pics from the exhibition Vader it is a simple case of just matching in over a dozen areas with no real preconceptions. I believe my friend's account and either way he's going to be finishing the head.

 

[defstartrooper]

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[RoCKo]

Nice helmet but i have to agree that i don´t find this helmet matching what we see on screen.
To Mac and Gino you listen...
Still i would like to see this specific helmet finished and displayed as i believe every Vader helmet has a right to be finished and displayed!

 

[KaanE]

Here are a few more pics you can compare it to, also a straight one of the front. They are not full size, but you enough for overlays.

 

[defstartrooper]

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[LeAngeSolitaire]

You asked for opinions people have given them, do you really want peoples opinions or do you just want them to say yes you are right ?

Actually, opinions that are supported by material that has relevance to my question would be great. An overlay with a DS lid does not really count since it is not the lid it is should be compared with. However, the new pics of the exhibition lid are really great, so thank you!

 

[defstartrooper]

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[LeAngeSolitaire]

Well the DS does have ties back to production pieces, far removed but ties nonetheless it's not a fan scratch sculpt.
It's lacking in lots of details but the general proportional relationships are what the purpose of the overlay was for i think rather than details.

It would be interesting to see the same DS comparison with the expo lid pic HaanE posted above.

I don't agree with you about the details. The devil is in the details I think :love

 

[defstartrooper]

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