Ultimate National Treasure Book of Secrets research
- Thread starter juno
- Start date
On the bonus features of the DVD, Ritchie Kremer (prop master) says "Do you want it stamped?" (referring to the gold leafed stamp they were thinking of using) and Turteltaub says "Yes". Not sure what that EXACTLY entails but you might be right. Could be hot stamped.
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I don't have the time to find the screen cap to prove it at the moment, but you can tell that the seal is clearly leather stamped by the way that the leather rounds over due to the pressure from embossing it. I've been doing leather work off and on for about 23 years now, and it was burned in any way other than a laser, you wouldn't have seen the level of detail that was present, and it clearly wasn't lasered.
Gregg
Gregg
marsattack
Sr Member
I have to be honest and say that I find the motive behind this thread strangely spiteful.
Of course, any member is perfectly entitled NOT to purchase an item if they feel its too expensive (ask the different vendors of the Grail Diary), because that's your choice but to trash out of hand, another members project seems astonishingly off colour.
May I take this opportunity to respond to some of your points??
You discuss at length the accuracy of our book vs Sector 7 vs Ross MacDonald and it should be remembered that in making our book (As TAZ mentioned earlier) we purposefully steered clear of reproducing things that were created by Ross - one example the scroll. We actually do have scroll artwork the same as Ross used for his magnificent prop but since it was made by him for his prop we felt that if we used his one, it could be argued that we were guilty of a form of recasting. Likewise, other elements used in our book might fall into the same worrying category so we avoided them as best we could. For the record, we NEVER promoted our book as being screen accurate.
Regarding accuracy it also seems that even you are unable to verify certain characteristics of the original prop - just as we were. If its total accuracy you are after then you need to wait with your very forceful opinions until you are holding all three of the books you are comparing (that includes the original prop and NOT one of Ross' superb copies - after all, even if Da Vinci had painted more Mona Lisa's, there can only be one original - the first). If you are making comparisons based on accuracy then please may I implore you to compare apples with apples.
Your main objection appears to be surrounding the price. Here too may I please request that you reserve your judgement until after you have:
1) All of the facts surrounding the making of our book and whether we actually received the amount for each book you claim we did - I can assure you we did not!
2) Written 186 pages of your own material and stories (remembering to make each entry 100% screen accurate or it won't count because you are stressing screen accuracy - we on the other hand did not), purchasing and selecting all the fonts and laying out each of the 186 pages.
3) Hand selecting and purchasing all the leather, paper and fabric for each of the numerous books you are going to be making.
4) Researching, sometimes purchasing, creating and printing each of the 70 plus inserts that were issued along with our book
5) Printing all the pages of a limited run publication, hand crafting each book and cover before assembling each one and ageing - by hand - each one of the over 200 pages contained in each book.
I am not insisting that you do all of the above in the same detail because its your choice to make yours as you wish but remember, if you leave out even one of the above, then with respect, you are not comparing apples with apples.
In ending, I would like to say that its regrettable that you seem hell-bent on throwing mud at people who have gone out of their way to produce a good quality piece for the members here. If you don't like the price then by all means either choose another option - other people did and its a free world - but please could I ask you to refrain from making broad and often uninformed generalisations.
If on the other hand, the purpose of this thread is to discuss a more accurate replica of the book then I for one not only welcome your input, but I would be first in line to purchase one from you if you found it in yourself to do a run of them.
Regards
Mars
Of course, any member is perfectly entitled NOT to purchase an item if they feel its too expensive (ask the different vendors of the Grail Diary), because that's your choice but to trash out of hand, another members project seems astonishingly off colour.
May I take this opportunity to respond to some of your points??
You discuss at length the accuracy of our book vs Sector 7 vs Ross MacDonald and it should be remembered that in making our book (As TAZ mentioned earlier) we purposefully steered clear of reproducing things that were created by Ross - one example the scroll. We actually do have scroll artwork the same as Ross used for his magnificent prop but since it was made by him for his prop we felt that if we used his one, it could be argued that we were guilty of a form of recasting. Likewise, other elements used in our book might fall into the same worrying category so we avoided them as best we could. For the record, we NEVER promoted our book as being screen accurate.
Regarding accuracy it also seems that even you are unable to verify certain characteristics of the original prop - just as we were. If its total accuracy you are after then you need to wait with your very forceful opinions until you are holding all three of the books you are comparing (that includes the original prop and NOT one of Ross' superb copies - after all, even if Da Vinci had painted more Mona Lisa's, there can only be one original - the first). If you are making comparisons based on accuracy then please may I implore you to compare apples with apples.
Your main objection appears to be surrounding the price. Here too may I please request that you reserve your judgement until after you have:
1) All of the facts surrounding the making of our book and whether we actually received the amount for each book you claim we did - I can assure you we did not!
2) Written 186 pages of your own material and stories (remembering to make each entry 100% screen accurate or it won't count because you are stressing screen accuracy - we on the other hand did not), purchasing and selecting all the fonts and laying out each of the 186 pages.
3) Hand selecting and purchasing all the leather, paper and fabric for each of the numerous books you are going to be making.
4) Researching, sometimes purchasing, creating and printing each of the 70 plus inserts that were issued along with our book
5) Printing all the pages of a limited run publication, hand crafting each book and cover before assembling each one and ageing - by hand - each one of the over 200 pages contained in each book.
I am not insisting that you do all of the above in the same detail because its your choice to make yours as you wish but remember, if you leave out even one of the above, then with respect, you are not comparing apples with apples.
In ending, I would like to say that its regrettable that you seem hell-bent on throwing mud at people who have gone out of their way to produce a good quality piece for the members here. If you don't like the price then by all means either choose another option - other people did and its a free world - but please could I ask you to refrain from making broad and often uninformed generalisations.
If on the other hand, the purpose of this thread is to discuss a more accurate replica of the book then I for one not only welcome your input, but I would be first in line to purchase one from you if you found it in yourself to do a run of them.
Regards
Mars
My goal is to compare the replicas out there.
Taz states in the For Sale thread for your book:
I do not expect my replica to be 100% accurate. I'll settle for 99.9%
. However, I won't claim that something is accurate when it is not, nor would I be angry if someone finds an inaccuracy with my replica.
I don't understand how you can create a replica prop if you DON'T copy someone else's work? Call me crazy, but this is the RPF not the OPF. It's assumed that you're going to be copying someone's work (but if you copy someone from the RPF's work then you're recasterating).
There may be five Mona Lisa's, but there's only one Da Vinci. And I'm not sure how my being unable to "verify certain characteristics of the original prop" even enters in to anything you're saying? I'm admitting where I lack information. My "forceful opinions?" Did I post angry measurements? Does saying your seal is inaccurate somehow carry a menacing tone?
Oh, I can compare your book, Ross' book, or the Gutenberg bible to screencaps and photos all day long. I'm not sure why I can't make those comparisons? I also don't need to hold the books in my hand to make said comparisons. I thought the purpose of forums like these was to share information and explore ideas.
I haven't checked to see how many entries are on screen, but you can be sure that I'll be stressing screen accuracy when I create them.
Again with the whole apples with apples thing. I'm not looking to replicate YOUR book. I'm looking to compare the replicas out there to the original and show what decisions I choose to make in the process of creating my own. They are all claiming to be Book of Secrets (apples) and so I'm comparing them all to each other.
I believe that you are being overly sensitive to my critique of your work. I can't help but think this is due to your wanting to defend the price you put on your book. Look through this thread. You've had two people who purchased the book weigh in and say that they are happy with it. I am friends with one of the owners of your book. He loves it; he's happy with it. All it does is make you look bad when you start defending your choices or telling folks that your book can't be compared to the original. Let your work stand on its own. If you are happy with the choices you made then just stand by them. If you want to explain why you went with one choice over another in a factual way, I welcome your input. With the exception of my problem with the price, all I’ve been doing is pointing out differences between the books. Me stating that you burned your seal in with a laser does not equal me saying your book sucks.
Like I said before, I'm not doing a run. Runs force people to be secretive and tag their images with giant watermarks all in the interest of making money or keeping information from the masses. There are items I do runs of, this is not one of them.
I am making this with a few friends for fun. You can always buy a book from Ross if you'd like. Yeah, he charges $5k, but you’re paying for work from the original artist. (Plus, if they were cheap everyone would have one and his work would be devalued.)
Taz states in the For Sale thread for your book:
I do not expect my replica to be 100% accurate. I'll settle for 99.9%
. However, I won't claim that something is accurate when it is not, nor would I be angry if someone finds an inaccuracy with my replica.I don't understand how you can create a replica prop if you DON'T copy someone else's work? Call me crazy, but this is the RPF not the OPF. It's assumed that you're going to be copying someone's work (but if you copy someone from the RPF's work then you're recasterating).
There may be five Mona Lisa's, but there's only one Da Vinci. And I'm not sure how my being unable to "verify certain characteristics of the original prop" even enters in to anything you're saying? I'm admitting where I lack information. My "forceful opinions?" Did I post angry measurements? Does saying your seal is inaccurate somehow carry a menacing tone?
Oh, I can compare your book, Ross' book, or the Gutenberg bible to screencaps and photos all day long. I'm not sure why I can't make those comparisons? I also don't need to hold the books in my hand to make said comparisons. I thought the purpose of forums like these was to share information and explore ideas.
Ah, so people didn't pay $1k for your books. If so then I was misinformed and apologize.
I haven't even covered the interior of the books in my comparison. However, I've written way more than 186 pages of material on the same subject. It's par for the course when you have a degree in English. As a graphic designer, I've done layout for way more than 186 pages as well. I'm no stranger to picking fonts either.
I haven't checked to see how many entries are on screen, but you can be sure that I'll be stressing screen accuracy when I create them.
I have all my leather and paper (sorry, no fabric on this puppy) ready to go. And I purchased it all by myself! It was my assistant's day off. :rolleyes (In the interest of full disclosure, I did have friends with me when I bought the paper.)
Do I look like I just fell off the replica making wagon? I am no stranger to research or purchasing or creating or printing replicas. I've worked in so many paper mediums I can't even begin to list them all.
I can assure you that I have a bit of experience with assembling books.
Again with the whole apples with apples thing. I'm not looking to replicate YOUR book. I'm looking to compare the replicas out there to the original and show what decisions I choose to make in the process of creating my own. They are all claiming to be Book of Secrets (apples) and so I'm comparing them all to each other.
I believe that you are being overly sensitive to my critique of your work. I can't help but think this is due to your wanting to defend the price you put on your book. Look through this thread. You've had two people who purchased the book weigh in and say that they are happy with it. I am friends with one of the owners of your book. He loves it; he's happy with it. All it does is make you look bad when you start defending your choices or telling folks that your book can't be compared to the original. Let your work stand on its own. If you are happy with the choices you made then just stand by them. If you want to explain why you went with one choice over another in a factual way, I welcome your input. With the exception of my problem with the price, all I’ve been doing is pointing out differences between the books. Me stating that you burned your seal in with a laser does not equal me saying your book sucks.
Like I said before, I'm not doing a run. Runs force people to be secretive and tag their images with giant watermarks all in the interest of making money or keeping information from the masses. There are items I do runs of, this is not one of them.
I am making this with a few friends for fun. You can always buy a book from Ross if you'd like. Yeah, he charges $5k, but you’re paying for work from the original artist. (Plus, if they were cheap everyone would have one and his work would be devalued.)
I read every post in this thread but for my bad english I can't say all that I'm thinking.
The problem is that... everything have a price.
I read that you spent cheap for leather... for paper... for bind and for print.
I think that, if someone want to have better replica he have to invest many money for better materials.
Laser Print have a cost... good leather have a cost... bind process have a cost... inserts on high quality paper (with photo etc...) have a cost... all you can do have a cost!
Better materials you'll use and better replica you'll have... but much money you have to spend and invest.
I hope you understand my poor english...
The problem is that... everything have a price.
I read that you spent cheap for leather... for paper... for bind and for print.
I think that, if someone want to have better replica he have to invest many money for better materials.
Laser Print have a cost... good leather have a cost... bind process have a cost... inserts on high quality paper (with photo etc...) have a cost... all you can do have a cost!
Better materials you'll use and better replica you'll have... but much money you have to spend and invest.
I hope you understand my poor english...
Hi Sarednab! I understand your English perfectly!
I'm not going for cheap leather, paper, or binding. It's go big or go home in my house!
What about your contents????? Since the real one had few "secrets" what are you doing for yousr or is the inside going to be accurate to the original????
Hi Sarednab! I understand your English perfectly!
I'm not going for cheap leather, paper, or binding. It's go big or go home in my house!
I'm happy for this!
Thanks to understand my english! :lol
But I know (thanks to my experience for my Grail Diary) that I spent very much money to make every diary... trust me!
juno, I love trying to recreate paper props. I fail more times that I succeed and you obviously have more means and skill than I. I look forward to your posts in this thread. I love seeing how something comes together and since you have chosen to make your research and progress open without watermarks I can clearly see how you are doing this. Very exciting for me.:thumbsup
Actually the contents are pretty much the easy part. To make it screen accurate all you need are like 2-3 pages recreated from the film, a photo of a baby, 2 photos of JFK's limo, a photo of the Olmac plank, and a copy of a particular autoposy report.
I have found everything except for 1 of the JFK photos either on the RPF or the Inter-webz. The 2-3 pages shown should be super easy for someone like Juno. Everything else you could make up.
Gregg
CharmedOne14
Well-Known Member
WOW! I am new to the forum but I am a history buff-full of useful AP US History Information! I am too trying to recreate the famed President's BOS! I would love to help those who ask! I have awesome fonts for the handwriting and the handwriting font of current US President Obama on hand so...think of the possibilities of secrets about current issues...!
@juno... wow, great research so far. I am very interested in reading more :love
Edit: your embossed seal looks just perfect! Congrats!!
As for the discussion about being SA and prices...if their is a market for a price, if somebody is paying what is asked for whatever, then why not? Still it is
up to everybody themself to decide if it is worth the price or not. I would love to have one of T/M BoS, allthough it may not be entirly SA in every singe aspect,
but i think they did a GREAT job in their BoS! I just could get one as it is out of my budget... unfortunately.
Coming back to research and details of the BoS itself...Do "we" know how the Cover is built up or the book is attached to the cover?
I have tried to find some details about that, but no success so far :unsure . Do we have detailed
pics of the inside cover? What materials used?
Edit: your embossed seal looks just perfect! Congrats!!
As for the discussion about being SA and prices...if their is a market for a price, if somebody is paying what is asked for whatever, then why not? Still it is
up to everybody themself to decide if it is worth the price or not. I would love to have one of T/M BoS, allthough it may not be entirly SA in every singe aspect,
but i think they did a GREAT job in their BoS! I just could get one as it is out of my budget... unfortunately.
Coming back to research and details of the BoS itself...Do "we" know how the Cover is built up or the book is attached to the cover?
I have tried to find some details about that, but no success so far :unsure . Do we have detailed
pics of the inside cover? What materials used?
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Keep an eye on my thread, that's my next area to be continued!
marsattack
Sr Member
Well Juno , it is not only dissapointing but sad that you have once again missed the point of my post!!
They have told me to keep it short......if you are making a screen acurate BOS , and you claim to be in FULL contact with R. Macdonald ,and if he lets you , then all you have to do is copy it verbatim.
We did not do that , we recreated it from scratch!!
So Juno make your book , good luck on your sales and
MOVE ON!!!!!!
Marcel
They have told me to keep it short......if you are making a screen acurate BOS , and you claim to be in FULL contact with R. Macdonald ,and if he lets you , then all you have to do is copy it verbatim.
We did not do that , we recreated it from scratch!!
So Juno make your book , good luck on your sales and
MOVE ON!!!!!!
Marcel
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