U.S. under attack movies/games

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I started replaying COD Modern Warfare 2 then the discussion of the Homefront game and Red Dawn remake got me thinking. The thing that bugged about Modern Warfare 2 where you're going through the suburbs is that there are no civilians fighting back. You think that Russia (or anyone) would be dropping paratroopers and no civilians would fight? That's another reason Red Dawn, while a good movie, didn't make sense. There's no way an enemy country could get enough troops in quickly enough to stop the military, let alone VERY well armed civilians. Paratroopers are for holding ground for the main invasion force, or to capture key targets while waiting for the latter. They would have a tough time against millions of civilians even before the military turned up.

I posted this when MW2 came out and you get the "Oh that's stupid you can't fight soldiers with automatic weapons and tanks". Well those enemy paratroopers probably have antitank weapons to take out their APCs with. They wouldn't have tanks yet. Plus those people must be from other countries because people are very well armed here. Maybe not with automatic weapons, but semi-auto rifles would work and a deer rifle works well as a sniper rifle.

 

[Sigma-LS]

The heavy caliber bullets used in hunting and old popular military rifles are actually more powerful than modern 5.56 rounds. The reason they got away from them was wanting to carry more ammunition in a combat load, or was it reducing the weight of the combat load? GI's we need your input!

Nah, the thing is rural areas like where I grew up were quite sparsely populated. Maybe 1 family per square mile if you included the towns. So it wouldn't actually take a whole ton of folks to overwhelm certain well-armed areas. But why you would want to take over some out of the way place like that is beyond me. Any place big enough to be a worthy target should at least have a National Guard post with way more firepower....even if it is Cold War era equipment.

 

[Wes R]

I always figured that the reason the Red Dawn invasion had worked as they'd used nukes on major military bases to cause a distraction and to take out opposition.

 

[SmilingOtter]

The boardgame Fortress America may have been the first of the genre. The US is attacked by three different armies, each of which is the size of the US forces. Each turn, though, the US acquires more resources (such as civilian partisans.) So the invaders can win if they can overwhelm the defenders fast, but the longer the US can hold out, the better its chances.

 

[Boomer]

I suppose it's a valid point. What's the ratio on guns to people over there? In the end it is just a game/movie.

 

[Jango Wes]

There are a couple of reasons that we use 5.56. Obviously, weight was a major factor in switching over in Vietnam. The lighter round enables the Soldier to carry more ammo. The major factor is 5.56 is NATO standard. If we ever get co-located with NATO forces and someone runs out of ammo, a US Soldier could grab a Brit's ammo and use it in their weapon. Same with the 9mm. NATO standard.

Wes

 

[Sigma-LS]

I suppose it's a valid point. What's the ratio on guns to people over there? In the end it is just a game/movie.

I think the old number was something like 3 guns for every gun owner...which used to equate to about a gun for every American citizen. But that was way back in the late 90's. No clue what any modern statistics are.

 

[CB2001]

I always figured that the reason the Red Dawn invasion had worked as they'd used nukes on major military bases to cause a distraction and to take out opposition.

Plus, if the only weapon you had was a hunting rifle, and you're facing a squad of 12+ paratroopers with machine guns, I think it'd put a dent in anyone's courage at first. It's the reason why Jed had so much trouble at first with the solder that was still alive after the attack at the national park. It's not easy trying to make a stone of your heart in order to fight a battle, even in the beginning.

 

[brimst0ne13]

another reason 5.56 NATO (.223 rem) is used is because during combat, the militaries of NATO wanted a universal round that had a similar knockdown factor of the 7.62 used in Russian weapons, without the overpenetration, which frequently caused civilian or even friendly casualties. Its a balance between stopping power and penetration, ideal in urban areas. on a side note, did NATO outlaw hollowpoints?

 

[SmilingOtter]

One other factor in the 5.56 weapons - in jungle warfare, also urban warfare, you're rarely fighting at the ranges that occurred in WW1/WW2. The large caliber battle rifles were great for long distance shooting, but at close ranges, a bit overkill.

 

[Jango Wes]

I believe it is the Geneva Convention that outlawed hollow points, not NATO.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

All I shoot is hallow points, when it counts.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Plus, if the only weapon you had was a hunting rifle, and you're facing a squad of 12+ paratroopers with machine guns, I think it'd put a dent in anyone's courage at first. It's the reason why Jed had so much trouble at first with the solder that was still alive after the attack at the national park. It's not easy trying to make a stone of your heart in order to fight a battle, even in the beginning.

I'm not talking actually engaging in a firefight with a hunting rifle, but if you had a group you could do it. There are civilians with better marksmanship than people in the military. I meant more along the lines of civilians with semi-auto assault rifles. The difference between semi-auto and full auto is negligible. You can fire a semi-auto as fast as you can pull the trigger. Plus engaging the enemy military would be the best way to get better weapons, if they actually had better weapons.

 

[Boomer]

If some civilians had better marksmanship than the opposing force then I would guess that they have previously served or have some military background. Not saying that they wouldn't be civilians after leaving the military life but it would make them more proactive in a military situation than the average Joe.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

You don't need to be in the military to hit a target. People do got target shooting or hunting as civilians all the time here.

 

[Boomer]

Fair enough. Very different over here as it's hard to obtain a gun license let alone even replicas in some states.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

That's kind of what I was alluding to. I don't think a lot of people in other countries know how much guns are a part of the culture here. I'm not talking crazy hillbillies, but a lot of hunting, target shooting, skeet shooting, etc. Heck I was on a target shooting team from 6th grade through highschool. There's even a famous quote from a Japanese general after WW2 where he was asked about Japan's plans to invade the U.S. He said they never even intended to invade because they knew they would face armed civilians at every corner.