Thoughts on Studio Scale Elitism Disease (and treatment options)

[Zombie Killer]

Why is it considered to be elitism because someone wants to seperate catagories? Are the Ferrari guys elitists because they don't want vw powered ferrari kit cars to show up at the Ferrari shows and forums? I look at studio model replicas the same way as someone scouring the internet for every single Ferrari part and building their own car. It's not a Ferrari built car but it is a car built with Ferrari parts. The Ferrari built car would be the screen used, the car assembled with all ferrari parts would be the studio model replicas and the kit cars are the ss models and general models. The size of the model shouldn't matter only the level of detail. Is it elitism or just being a purist? What is wrong with being a purist? It has nothing to do with looking down on others it has to do with like minded folks wanting to build the no holds barred, no expense spared, no detail left unturned replica of what the original builders created. That doesn't mean anyone looks down on those who don't as most of the replica builders also build other non SMR's and all learned from building them. It also shouldn't offend those who don't want to build exact replicas that the guys that do want to have their own area to share ideas. I don't think a V3 Xwing build is on the same construction ability as level of a scratch built xwing using all original kit parts. Why pretend it is? As far as i am concerned unless it is scratch built using all original parts it is just another model just a big model. Are their levels within that? Yes, sure you could say if you cast one part in resin it is no longer a true replica but i guess you have to draw the line somewhere. But again, those that cast a few parts shouldn't be jealous of those that don't and those that don't shouldn't feel like they are considered elitists because they have a passion for attention to detail. I don't think it is a bad thing to want to have a section for those of the same obsessive passions of minute millimeter detail. Is it going to get the same traffic? No but that is only because there are fewer people doing it. Maybe if there was a seperate section more people would want to join in on the obsesiveness. Unfortunatly in todays society people get upset because they feel like they are being left out and it is unfair that those that can, do , when they can't or won't for whatever reason. The reason matters zero. Are the guys that want to keep true replicas in their own section elitists or do those that want to post their models in the replica section have an inferiourity complex? It goes both ways. I don't want my AMT model in the SS section and wouldn't want my V3 in the SMR section (if there was one). People need to get a grip that there are different levels of detail and it's not a bad thing to want to seperate them. It should make people strive to want to raise the bar of their abilities not make them have contempt for those that do.

 

[Art Andrews]

People need to get a grip that there are different levels of detail and it's not a bad thing to want to seperate them. It should make people strive to want to raise the bar of their abilities not make them have contempt for those that do.

Glen,

I completely understand what you are saying, but also disagree with your conclusion. There is nothing wrong with differentiating kit builds from scratch builds (I can create prefixes for you guys in about two minutes), but creating a separate forum for such a niche market would be suicidal. Let's be honest, most people post for one of two reasons, to get help or to get praise. That is about it. You have to understand that most people are just not going to go into subforum after subforum... They come, hit a few of the top level forums and that is it. By subdividing, you create less of a chance for people to see your work, which means less help and/or less praise... and sooner or later, if you aren't getting either of those, you stop posting because what is the point?

Countless forums have risen and died because they were too specific or focused on a single aspect to the exclusion of everything else. Those type of sites NEVER flourish for long and even though the RPF would continue on, the same would happen if we continued to subdivide the models section. It would be completely counterproductive.

 

[Zombie Killer]

I am not saying there should be another section, just that if another is created people shouldn't get mad about it and think that those that do want it are being elitists or think higher of themselves. You are 100% right about more forums. It seem like everytime a new section is created i see less. I go to the prop, general model,studio scale model and junkyard and that is pretty much it. The more sections added the less i see. But that is my own fault.

 

[Jedi Dade]

How did we get here from there... this thread started by talking about the semi-snobbinss that sometimes comes with the studio scratch builders vs. kitbuilders. Now we are talking about sub-divisions in the forums... gotta love the group stream of consciousness

Personally I think that splitting stuff out is a bad idea. Socialization is a good thing, and the more you sub-divide etc. the harder it is to find things and the less exposure great research, ideas and builds get. none of those I want. I do like the idea of archiving threads of great value... and kit scans etc... losing that data would be criminal.

Jedi Dade

 

[REL]

Alright, I'm with you fellas.

 

[ralphee]

Thing is, i can do both, i can scratch VERY well, i can build kits, and, im not too shabby with paint, so with that, i dont feel the need to divide even more.
If folk are too blind too even differentiate a kit, from a scratchbuilt labor of love, they are in the wrong hobby anyhow.

Lee

 

[moffeaton]

Agreed - no need to subdivide. But if we need a better presence for moderation purposes, does it make sense to make one of US a moderator in the Studio Scale forum, at least to act as housekeeper/incorrect thread mover? Beaz nailed it with is description - it's that easy.

And yeah, you can come over and play WWI planes with me any day!!

 

[Shadowknight]

I like the forums the way that they are. The titles of them (at least to me) are very self explanatory, and for the most part people seem to start threads in the correct one.

Is this elitism happening in threads, or behind the scenes?

 

[ralphee]

Agreed - no need to subdivide. But if we need a better presence for moderation purposes, does it make sense to make one of US a moderator in the Studio Scale forum, at least to act as housekeeper/incorrect thread mover? Beaz nailed it with is description - it's that easy.

And yeah, you can come over and play WWI planes with me any day!!

Dont see why not Jason, a level headed fella to moderate sounds very good.
There are a lot of guys here i look up to, and have a very grounded attitude, which is key, coming from a natural hothead that is!

Lee

 

[137th Gebirg]

This is an interesting thread. I like it. A LOT! I'm just sorry I've found it a little too late.

Many things from the OP needed to be said. While I have personally not experienced any level of elitism here, I have on other forums out there and it does suck and sometimes leaves one wondering, "why did I bother"?

Most recently, I was looking for some advice on the type of paint I should use on my '96 Impala SS on a forum for that kind of vehicle. After asking the question, I got this huge torrent of smart-assed responses for people calling me a n00b and other similar japes - even from a couple of the more senior members who also appeared to be forum moderators. I was patently shocked at the ultra-rude responses. Yeah, I was a n00b and that's why I was asking the bloody question! Very disconcerting. After several posts of actually having to defend why I'm not some spam bot asking some punk questions (they apparently believed that nobody who owned this particular vehicle could possibly be so stupid as I to ask such questions), a couple of people finally came forward and started giving me real answers. Too much trouble and I now restrict my activity to lurker mode, if that.

Then there are the unpleasant "haves and have-nots" situations - and I mean the ones who have photos of rare studio-scale models that nobody has seen since original filming from 30+ years ago who want to do legitimate research on them. I'm talking specifically of the TOS Battlestar Galactica and Eastern Alliance Destroyer, two things that caused quite a little ****-storm a few years back when I was doing extensive research on my 6-view schematics for the same. Some people had photos that they wanted nobody else to see. Others released photos that they apparently shouldn't have (for whatever bloody reason) and that caused additional whirlwinds of finger-pointing, threats and promises of litigation. Seriously...why???

I applaud the OP's comments, and they are all very true and wise. This is a hobby to be enjoyed. Using it as a crutch to substantiate one's fragile ego (like many other such things on the web these days) does a disservice to all who either experiment with it, or are in to full-scale research.

Like I said, I don't see that too much here (thankfully), as for the most part it seems to be a pretty good group of enthusiasts with decent things to say towards one another. But sometimes it happens in the best of places and should be dealt with as effectively as possible. And the mods are key to maintaining level-headed discourse.

Just my $.02, for what it's worth.

 

[-... . .- --..]

Good idea, Lee...moffeaton for moderator!

 

[moffeaton]

Awww crap.

 

[Guy Cowen]

Good idea, Lee...moffeaton for moderator!

"Not a good idea, i'll end up with him eating all the pies and no one getting pudding or seconds, I'll not drop to his standards and desires under any circumstances the guy is already a control freak and most of us really dont like him.

I think he's to deep into the game to be unbiased, a nut ball basically unhinged. We all know what happened to that squirrel he vac formed over, I cant believe he wasn't banned for that. "



These are the sort of posts I dont want to see about any mod, it just wouldn't be decent :lol

Can I just add, whats going on? if Art spends any more time in Studio Scale he'll be building a bloody X wing before we know it.

Jasons made one thread on elitism and everybody has gone on the war path, I'm gunna go scratch build a replica GK kit whilst this all calms down.


Just out of interest can we re cast now or is that still bad? :behave

 

[137th Gebirg]

Awww crap.

Heh...just like in the military. Making a suggestion = volunteering for the duty.

 

[jedimaster]

Leave everything as is.... And as punishment for starting the damn thread make Jason Mod for all eternity... Bwuhahaha!!

Watch out for his next threads:

"you see a turtle laying on it's back in the hot sun... What do YOU do?"

"Tell me only the good things that spring to mind... About your mother"


This thread was a Voight Kampf test brought to you by Jason Eaton and the Tyrell corp. Thankyou for your participation.

 

[CutThumb]

This is an interesting argument to raise. As I’ve said before there are very, very ,very ,few people in the world capable or interested in producing studios scale replicas of the ships built from the original SW trilogy or other series around that period. In that sense GK or scratched, its already “elitist”hobby.
That makes it an incredibly small community of model makers (probably no larger than the teams employed at ILM) who are dedicated to producing the best replicas they can from nothing more than the photos and scraps of information gleamed from the few remaining original sources and then using a wide range of skill sets to try to recreate them as accurately as possible.
Very few people outside the studio scale community will be bothered if the parts used in the builds are exactly identical to those used on the original craft. That amount of super detailing is not of any real interest to them as long as its painted to look “pretty much the same.” For many of us however, it’s a hugely important point. We value that attention to detail.
So the few people involved in this forum and a scattering of others elsewhere are a very rare breed indeed and should value the fact that they all want to put in the time and dedication needed to create ,build and paint something as uniquely identical to the original ships as they can and are willing to share those resources with each other. If not here ,then where else would they manage to get the recognition they deserve for the all that intensive effort they put in and the models they eventually produce? It’s a very big world out there but it’s a very small number of people involved here. But as a resource its priceless. I value the comments and feedback from here more than anywhere else.
Human nature ,being what it is though , is a mite competitive at times, so its no surprise there is occasionally a little friendly rivalry about accuracy and resources but that arguably helps lifts the overall standard of the builds. I could never have built the models I have if a few people here had not put the years of effort they did into mastering them and producing them to such a hugely professional standard. And I value that. Because there is rarely a day goes by when I don’t look at and appreciate the models I’ve been able to build so far. I’ve still got the plastic ERTL X wing I built when I was sixteen and when I sit and stare at the beautiful studio scale version I have I can still feel the teenager I was being slightly awed by the fact that I ‘ve finally got something I ‘d always wanted so badly to have and had to wait thirty years to own. And I’d have never managed that without the builders here who put all that effort into their GK kits on my behalf and I am grateful for that.And there are more than a few people here who were extremely happy to own both GK kits and scratch builds of their own making. I’d certainly argue they couldn’t have without those posting how they went about achieving them originally. We all learn from each other.
There are just a couple more kits that I want to complete my collection and then I will call it a day . I’d never have managed that without this forum and the individuals here who have been willing to take this hobby far beyond what it is normally demanded of a pastime and open it up for others.
My advice ,having read some of the posts here ,would be to value what each and everyone brings to the table. If you don’t like the taste of what’s being served by that particular cook at that time ,take what it is you didn’t like about the dish and improve it for yourself somewhere else. But don’t spit it out in front of everyone else. Its not going to win you much respect and it comes across as somewhat childish and that’s happening a lot more lately . Ultimately I suspect people are going to loose a lot more than they could otherwise have gained. And that’s a waste to the forum as a whole.
Some here will be highly talented people who will be able to research and experiment to produce much better results than the rest of us could ever dream, some of us will just be able and happy to follow their instructions to the letter to replicate their efforts. However it seems to me that everyone is entitled to some measure of respect here for what ever they choose to produce as a studio scale kit be it a scratch build or resin cast kit. As long as the people who have built them are happy with the models they have achieved , then what is the problem really?

 

[Art Andrews]

Can I just add, whats going on? if Art spends any more time in Studio Scale he'll be building a bloody X wing before we know it.

Never going to happen. I thought we were nuts with Boba Fett when it comes to attention to detail, but the stuff you guys do makes my head hurt just looking at it. How you find all those little parts or pieces of parts is just insane.

 

[Art Andrews]

Good idea, Lee...moffeaton for moderator!

Jason knows I love him, but that is just never going to happen. lol:lol

 

[Guy Cowen]

Art

It starts with a Pred medipac and ends with you banging down Juliens door to kick off about a non vintage tooling he's used :behave

This is where Julien Interjects with

"they're all vintage tooling's" :lol

 

[Ray22]

Man, oh man, I'm staying out of this one, gonna go make me a Studio Scale Drink :eek.