The TE that ALMOST was... BIG photos!

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Jumpin Jax, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    As a buddy of TE I wanted to show off what his abilities are. Sadly, some ruined it for all. Removed due to too many smart alec comments and people ripping into the man. You all making snide remarks dont deserve such a fine automobile.

    Just kidding. Removed anyway.

    JJ
     
  2. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    WOW....very nice. :thumbsup ....you could grate cheese on that vocoder.....
     
  3. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

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    Looks cool- 3D scanned?
     
  4. SethB6025

    SethB6025 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, 3D scanned. A little bird told me someone might eventually be making these, though.
     
  5. Tim Allen

    Tim Allen Sr Member

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    The Holy Grail of Trooper Helms. (besides owning the real deal)
     
  6. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    I am not a helmet guy by any means, but that is an absolutely beautiful piece :thumbsup .

    If it ever became available, it might the one and only bucket I would consider.

    -Fred
     
  7. Boba Frett

    Boba Frett Sr Member

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    TE outdone himself on that one.
     
  8. OldKen

    OldKen Master Member

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    how was it made?

    is it one piece?

    looks awesome. :eek

    love to see it finished...
     
  9. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Okay,

    here is stupid me, pushing up the post count.

    I know TE makes... errr... made the best helmets and armour, but what is the speciality of this one ? I didn´t understand JJ´s reference to the "flattened out spots", anyone can enlighten me, please ?

    Thanks,
    Michael
     
  10. CWR

    CWR Active Member

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    Not sure about the flat spots, but this is a laser scan from TE's 2nd helmet. It was identified on screen as the trooper that says "there's one set for stun".
     
  11. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    From the mouth of TE as I can best translate it: "The film helmets are NOT perfectly round at the bottom of the helmets. I feel that the HDPE was used for one purpose over another and it is this: the plastic can be heated and wont shrink or slag out when used to basically heat and then manipulate the parts together to get them to fit. In doing so, some areas are flattened out at the bottom underneath. This is why there are no replcias that are dead on. Not the Gino (and it is WAY OFF anyway) not the TE1, not the others."

    So, thats the best way I can describe as to what he is saying. in laymens terms I think it is safe to say they heated and made parts fit since they did not right off of the molds. Thus creating flat spots and squsihed areas.

    JJ
     
  12. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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  13. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    I wish this was an interest thread rather than 'look what you'll never have..' :p

    Sharp :thumbsup
     
  14. steveo

    steveo Sr Member

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    That is a beauty. Now, if someone would only do a laser scan of the Boushh helmet, I would be elated.
     
  15. FalconV8

    FalconV8 Active Member

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    Is it just me? Facing the helmet, there are 5 teeth on the right and only 4 teeth on the left. Is this correct for this particular helmet? as we know some have only 4 on both sides, and others have 5 on both sides....

    CM
     
  16. FON

    FON Well-Known Member

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    my god .

    That is b.e.a.utiful.
     
  17. Stormtrooper

    Stormtrooper Well-Known Member

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    Yah, very pretty and all that... but it's not a helmet... it's a 3D scanned piece of foam.

    Fine if you want a paperweight, but if you want an accurate Stormtrooper helmet better contact GINO, AA etc. - or wait a couple of weeks until TE comes out of retirement... again. :rolleyes

    Cheers,
    John
     
  18. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    OK, I want to preface all I am about to say by stating that I am making these points because I detest inaccuracy and opinion that is posted as "fact." Too often things are stated as fact with no proof to back it up and if it is said often enough everyone simply begins to believe it IS fact. this is how props myths like the Obi-Wan "motorcycle grip" and "lawnmower gear" are born. We already have enough problems and issues among trooper helmet enthusiasts without adding more confusion to the mix. I am NOT trying to start a fight here, just squashing fallacies.

    This is simply untrue. First, this helmet was made via realscan. Rescan technology is not perfect and is prone to some error not only in the scanning but in the cutting of the part. Also, the original material this was made from was a foam that was very pourous with a grainy, sandlike surface which had to be filled and smoothed and sanded. You could also see a seam line across the dome on the original bust that had to be taken care of. Additionally, here are a few quotes in regard to the creation of the original bust:

    "the laser pics up the detail, but sadly the bit used to cut the parts is bigger than the detail areas are sometime"

    "you have to guess as to how deep the detail needs to be since the bit only scathed the surface and left where it goes... not everywhere, but in some spots"

    Aside from all of that, this was to be a one piece, fiberglass helmet, with all the detail molded in, including the rubber brow trim. 100% identical? This would have been much closer, in term of build, to what MR is producing. It might LOOK very similar to the real thing due to the amazing abilities of the realscan technology, but it would have been nowhere near "100% identical."

    You are right. You could. The problem is that from what I see you couldn't on the Dave M helmet from which this bust was scanned. The original does not appear (to me) to be as sharp as the bust and it seems to me (again, my opinion) that not only are the individual vocoder ridges, on the original, thicker, but that the troughs are not as thick and not as deep, as if someone has sharpened them, taking material off the ridges while deepening the troughs. But don't take my word for it. Decide for yourself.

    [​IMG]

    You can also see in the image above the change to the hood over the vocoder due to the machining error.

    It may sound like I am just trouncing this helmet or trying to make it look bad. That is not the case at all. It is an AMAZING bust and in many ways you would never be able to get something closer to the "Set for Stun" helmet. However, to state that it is EXACTLY like the helmet it came from (100% identical) and to say that nothing was changed simply is no more true than AA's original claims that his helmets were from the original untouched molds... Scary to see that parallel surfacing here.

    If this helmet is ever produced, I am sure that there will be many people happy to line up to purchase it and will be proud and thrilled to own it as they should be, but lets keep facts and opinions seperated.
     
  19. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    thats where I left my helmet in the bathroom..thanks for finding it..

    Pooper Trooper
     
  20. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    i'd wait for the symetrical version :)
     
  21. gizmo

    gizmo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I love it. :D
     
  22. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    Brak's....good eye.....when posted next to the original scan, one can definitely see the difference in the vocoder detail. While the top part looks sharper on the original, the bottom ridge depth look more pronounced on TE's mock up, like you said....great analysis.

    Nevertheless, a nice lid tho....
     
  23. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    I will pass on the kind words to him guys. I am sure he will be happy to hear from the people that like it.

    JJ
     
  24. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Thanks JevVader. I do want to stress that I am in no way trying to say this helmet is worthless or not amazing. I do love it and it would be a wonderful bust-type display piece.
     
  25. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    I would say best bust ever, but that is just my opinion like "best helmet" is yours.
     
  26. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    Bust because of the stand on the bottom? This thing is hallow. The stand is to allow for the bottom to be made perfectly and not done in a cleaned fashion. Cut it off and it is wearable.

    HAH.

    JJ
     
  27. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    No. It has nothing to do with the stand.

    I say "bust" because of the one part construction (unlike the original), the material it is being made of (unlike the original) and the fact that all the details (brow, earscrews, etc) (unlike the original) area cast in. Again, this is MY OPINION, but this would look great as a full sized bust, but not as an accurate representation of an actual HELMET, even though it is fully capable of being worn.
     
  28. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

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    No one here said what you posted was foam. Brak's simply said its origin was from a cleaned up foam master.

    Also, I don't see any smart alec comments either. I see an honest, factual analysis of the bust backed up with photographic evidence and with Matt's own word. You can't make such absolute claims, when there is solid evidence to refute them, and not expect people to question your statements.

    I don't understand how any helmet with a fiberglass brow trim can be said to be the closest to an original helmet. I can believe that it is a fairly accurate bust of Dave M's helmet.

    I would rather have a helmet that was cast from the inside of an original, like Matt's or even Gino's, which is now conviniently being called a second generation casting.
     
  29. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    The comment was made to Stormtrooper and not you all.

    Well since no one can get the helmets made correctly, IMHO thats where it comes from. And no, straight from TE's mouth: the Gino/CRProps helmets did NOT come from molds that touched the inside of the real helmet. Dave and Gino made copied skins and then pulled molds from those. Hence, 2nd Gen castings.

    TE is the ONLY one that molded a real helmet. No one else has. PERIOD.

    So lets move on shall we? Dont like it? Fine. Dont have to. Speaking of solid eveidence, why attack TE or Me for making a small mistake? TE correctly said it, and I corrected myself for not knowing. All you AA supporters should be running for the hills then. The evidence is there and you are all complaining about ONE small area that had to be done due to a bit error? Sheesh.. come on.

    TE commented as to the brow and said that if the brow was removed then the overall look would change, and this is true. Look at the brow on the MR helmet. Totally throws the look off and I agree. Well, aside from that helmet being totally off anyway. I support the decision to leave the brow molded in so the original look of that is kept.

    And this was done before Dave M got it, so it is a TE2 helmet. Nice you guys want to crap all over the guy that brought you movie accurate items when no one else did by changing the names of the helmets. Pay homage and respect why dont you? Poor from in my eyes.

    Anyway, said my peace. Just enjoy the images.

    JJ
     
  30. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's an incorrect guess.
     
  31. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

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    Or should we call it the Dave M helmet because he currently owns it? Or should we call it the Gentle Giant helmet because they scanned it. Or should we call it the AA, Andrew Ainsworth helmet, because he originally built it? Or should we call it the Lucasfilm helmet because they originally designed it?

    We are just continuing on the tradition TE himself started by naming the helmet after its current owner. TE never referred to the helmet as the "Guy-who-owned-it-before" TE helmet. We should probably be thanking that individual for selling his helmet to TE, however, TE has never disclosed that individual's name thus preventing him from receiving his due genuflection and kiss on the hand.
     
  32. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I still like it and Matt knows..
    say hi to him..
     
  33. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    Nice try. the seller did not want to be known. TE even stated this the day he originally posted the photos of the helmet. You must have missed it. Sorry you did. So the smart alec response can end thank you.

    Oh please Gino, enlighten us. :rolleyes

    JJ
     
  34. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    We'll just call it a trade secret. ;)
     
  35. Gytheran

    Gytheran Sr Member

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    JJ, what is the point of this thread?
     
  36. Lord Abaddon

    Lord Abaddon Sr Member

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    Simple. To give the guy who has "left" the RPF a dozen times, all dramatically, a "face" on here even though he's "done" with it all.

    And yes, nice bust, but it sure isn't a helmet and by no stretch is it an "accurate" helmet.

    My opinion of course.
     
  37. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Again, another incorrect assumption on your part. I am in no way crapping on Matt. I applaud his efforts. In many ways he is the grandfather of "screen accurate" replica trooper armor. As tyler pointed out, the change in the name has come along with the change of ownership. We are not calling the FG helmet you posted the Dave M helmet, we are saying it CAME from the Dave M helmet. Some seem to think we should be forever on our knees grovelling before Matt, thanking him for his contributions. Well, I DO thank him for his crotributions, which have been substantial, but I also recognize that the helmets he used to own have passed to new hands and I don't see any point in trying to hide that fact as so many apparently do. It is no real secret who the owner is, so playing cloak and dagger at this point is simply silly. Calling the helmets by the new owner's names, as Matt called them by HIS name while they were in his possesion is not taking away any credit from Matt. To imply we still should call them TE helmets is to live in the past and maybe that is what some want to do... always relive past glories. Others want to forge ahead to new things.
     
  38. CWR

    CWR Active Member

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    All of that said, It does look beautiful. I would buy one of these long before I would buy the Master Replicas helmet. If this was made in fiberglass with a nice paint job, chin strap, correct foam and lenses, and placed in a nice display case with a plaque I would definately find the money to buy it.

    100% perfect maybe not, but is sure is * close.

    -CWR
     
  39. Cenobyte

    Cenobyte Sr Member

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    Unless AA made it and you got a discount on it.

    My opinion of course
     
  40. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    JJ thanks for posting the pics. Glad I got to see them. I just wish you wouldn't go back and erase stuff.
     
  41. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I missed 'em. I hate threads like this where a pic or pics are shown but for a mere moment then spirited away. Just leave the frickin' pic up.
     
  42. gizmo

    gizmo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Again I love this helmet. :thumbsup

    Ben
     
  43. propsculptor

    propsculptor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  44. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Its great that fans have the opportunity (or maybe not as it so seems) to buy another great looking ANH Stormtrooper helmet. Funny when you go back a few years there was zero choice and now its like a new one comes along every six months.

    However lets not go down the “This one is best” line since we all know we’re never going to agree since it’s a subjective discussion.

    However this part of the discussion interested meÂ….

    Gino, I’d be interested in you explaining a little more about the history of your “1st generation” moulds since your comments seem to be at odds with facts from the moulds maker himself…..

    Well Gino I don’t think you can call it a “trade secret”. In the past SDS has been slated for being anything other than 100% clear on its proclamations and I think its only fair that all producers be treated the same way.

    So the guy who sold you the moulds is seemingly suggesting that the “provenance” over them differs significantly from what you sold the helmets as.

    Apologies to sidetrack this but I believe itÂ’s a valid point. If people prefer I can move it to another/new thread

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  45. Helmetman

    Helmetman Well-Known Member

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    Jez you should know dude, Gino just loves 'the idea' of having something no-one else has. Hence he keeps piping on that his moulds are 'the ones that touched the real suit'.

    What's the point in having something if it's stacked away in a cupboard somewhere?

    Limited edition stuff is special...yes. But great art only functions when it's being enjoyed by great people.

    Keeping it stashed away is an empty and rather selfish act that suggests to me that's the way he gets his kicks.

    Steve
     
  46. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Let's give credit where credit is due on this "TE that ALMOST was" helmet.
    Had it not been for "mverta" who paid to have the helmet scanned at Gentle Giant in the first place, this "show off" thread would not exist.
    I hate it when the correct people don't get given the credit they deserve.

    Chris
     
  47. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Its a fantastic looking display piece. However, i can just about put up with the fact that the helmets i own are made from the wrong type of plastic, so a one piece fiberglass troopr helmet would not be for me.

    It would be really nice if TE cut one up into sections. Face cap/back and ears. Reworked/extended the face section back (where the ears were), reworked/extended the cap forwards (also were the ears were), removed the brow and thinned all the parts down, so it could then be assembled like an original.

    I think the brow trim needs to be a separate rubber part at the very least.

    Keith.
     
  48. DL 44 Blaster

    DL 44 Blaster Sr Member

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    :lol.......hit the nail on the head with a big 'ole 20oz. serrated head framing hammer. :thumbsup

    Steve
     
  49. jeezycreezy

    jeezycreezy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Great display piece/bust/whatever you want to call it; not, strictly speaking, 100% accurate.

    I mean, no disrespect to TE for his filling and sanding abilities, but while it is a nice representation of the helmet it was scanned from, I don't see how this can be touted as the most accurate helmet available when the process used to manufacture it is vastly dissimilar to how the originals were made.

    Again, because positive comments don't seem to sink in when posted amongst negative ones:

    It's a fantastic looking piece and if they were made available I'd certainly want one.

    But I think a better approach to all this would have been to post pictures and let people form their own opinions on accuracy rather than post pictures and boastful claims only to take your ball and go home when people don't just chime in with mindless accolades.

    Quick question: How were the mic tip recesses handled for scanning? I only ask as I doubt the mic tips were removed so did those areas have to be interpolated?

    Cheers.
    TJ
     
  50. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    What is TRULY sad is the attitude of "if you won't lavish blind praise and adoration, I will take my toys and go home." It is sad that there is no room for constructive criticism or even correction of misleading statements here. I guess instead we should all just keep our mouths shut and allow ingorance to reign.
     

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