The most accurate ANH Vader helmet out there?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Fatherless One, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. Fatherless One

    Fatherless One Well-Known Member

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    Simple question, but what's the answer?

    There seems to be a few different versions used in ANH, different masks, different domes, different combinations of both?

    Whadahyathink?

    Alan.
     
  2. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    eeeek, this is going to cause a few fights.

    As to what helmet has the most provenance I'd say the Ghost Host. However if you're looking for a helmet which looks closest to that seen on-screen in ANH, so I'd probably say a helmet based on the 20thCentury face, along with a Ghost Host dome.

    AFAIK a number of propmakers have done this, although I dont think any of them admitted to it.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  3. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    Yea, if it wasn't coming from Alan I'd say it sounded like a loaded question looking to start sparks.

    I'd have to agree with Jez, a GH helmet with a modified 20th Century mask would probably be most screen accurate.
     
  4. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    :lol

    If you want my opinion then the SPFX and JB V2 are currently the best examples of an ANH Vader helmet. I believe the JB version doesn't come with any dome mounting tabs so that puts the SPFX slightly ahead in my opinion.

    Here's my older SPFX helmet which has the narrower neck.

    ANH Vader Helmet
     
  5. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Interesting to note that BOTH of those helmets are actually made from the very parts that Jez and GH are suggesting.

    Chris

     
  6. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    This may or may not be it, as I don't recall, that anyone have proved it otherwise, you can't say this for sure. No matter how our opinions are on the different vader helmets.
    The only one that comes closest to the screen used helmet, as for the accuracy goes, no one comes even near, the SPFX, ATM. Yes I know this may be subject to some :confused But with all of this, so called guarded national security level of secrecy, going on in the vader community, no one is better than others, in this, NO ONE.

    Dan
     
  7. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ...a little confused Dan....in one line you're saying the SPFX is by far the most accurate....the next line you're saying no one is better than the other.

    Personally, I have my own preferneces...which I'll keep to myself as it seems that once you note a preference publicly, you're officially allied to that maker with all the benefits and/or liabilities that implies....

    The ONLY way to say definitively which fan built is the most accurate is to take measurements from an actual screen used lid and compare....whichever is the closest wins. Otherwise, it's just eyeballing it and making claims....
     
  8. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    Well, you are entitled to feel this way, but just remember that most of us Vader fans are genuine interested in the HOBBY, and not in the political game and hidden agendas as some of you are, which BTW are giving this Hobby a bad rep.

    BTW I have a huge respect for your knowledge, but if you aren't willing to share, don't pass it under our noses, you just make people like me wonder if you really are as blessed as you all claim to be.

    Dan
     
  9. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    No one as in person, Kev ;)
     
  10. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    I can make my own oppinion out, on how I personaly need to accept things, and I can, with my head raised high, honestly say that I'm not biased in any way in regards to all of this mess, but I know what I like and what I don't, I don't need some one to form my oppinion for me.

    Dan.
     
  11. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Hey Dan,

    With all due respect, the fact that the SPFX has been through SEVERAL upgrades (which can be clearly seen and documented by the photos he's released on ebay in the past) is evidence enough (to prove to me at least) that what he's offering is not really cast directly from an ANH helmet.
    If it WAS cast directly from a real ANH helmet, why on earth would be need to keep upgrading it every time he finds a new detail that is missing from his current version? That's not speculation - it's factual information based on the history and revisions that the SPFX helmet has been through to get it to where it's at today.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the SPFX helmet is an awesome looking ANH Vader. I'd give him a lot more credit if he'd be truthful about it's origins instead of hiding behind the "cast from an original" crap that he continues with.

    At least the JB Version 2 doesn't claim to be cast from an original ANH helmet, but it HAS been reverse engineered to make it a very close facsimile of the original.

    Chris
     
  12. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

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    Eh, the Darth Jones helmet.
     
  13. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    I think I agree with that Tyler. The darthjones helmet is the closest in my opinion too, but I wasn't sure if Fatherless One was asking about helmets which are still obtainable. The darthjones helmet is one of a kind as far as I'm aware.

    Chris
     
  14. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    Hey Chris.
    This is excatly my point, I'm not talking pedigree here, or accuracy of the claims involved, I'm only talking about the accuracy of the helmet hold up to the screenused helmet. I personaly don't care about the Pedigree, I go solely by the looks.

    Dan
     
  15. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    Not forgotten (who can :p ) but it's not availeble, as some others are.

    Dan
     
  16. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ....and that's what happens in these types of threads. Opinion is sometimes stated as fact....which gets everyone pi$$ed off and flame wars go on for pages.

    Unless you can match up dimensions from an actual screen used piece, I don't think anyone can lay claim to "cast from a screen used".....

    That was my point.....
     
  17. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

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    Opps. I wasn't clear from the subject whether it was available helmets or helmets in general (including one-ofs).
     
  18. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    I think DJ's helmet counts....Alan didn't specify readily available.....
     
  19. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    I back you on that Kev. :thumbsup

    So folks, and so called learned, of all things Vader, it's time to drop the cloaks, and share all that you have on this black fella. In the name of education and peace. :)

    Dan
     
  20. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    Ha. well said.....and that would be a refreshing change too. :D
     
  21. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    I didn't think Fatherless meant one offs but if he did then I agree the DJ helmet would be the best. But how do we reconcile the narrower neck on it?
     
  22. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Have you seen the neck on the ANH helmet used in the ESB teaser poster?
    It's VERY narrow.

    Chris

     
  23. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    What... ...did that comment mean? Were you speaking to me? Secrets? I think I come across with more information than most here regarding Vader. Just ask around... or ask me... Blessed? Yes, thank the Lord I am blessed. But that is not subjective. Wheather or not you think I am blessed is completely irrelevant.

     
  24. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    I realise that but the one in the film isn't.
     
  25. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    I'm guessing it's refering to the photos that you don't like being shared.
     
  26. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    But I'll add that that the reason I believe this sounded like a loaded question is that it has been asked and discussed at least every month or so here. If a newbie were asking, it would not be as surprising. All the same folks will chime in to say all the same stuff that wa said last month... and the month before that... etc.
     
  27. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    Yes mainly photos, as these precents facts. Background stories, are great, but subject to twists.

    Dan
     
  28. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I must have misread it.

    Dan
     
  29. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    ... which is exactly why I do not post my opinions in many threads here.... I'd be jumped on by people and accused of stuff I never meant.
     
  30. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    Easier said than done Dan. There are a lot of people here with their guards up. I wish it were that simple.
     
  31. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Sounds like my cue. :p

    Both the GH and 20th Century ANH buckets look fantastic to me. And CKing's mannequin, combining the 20th mask and GH dome, looks as if it stepped right off of the screen.

    So... are the GH and 20th Century ANH helmets really still available?

    The thread implies that they are... but I've never actually seen either of these helmets for sale. As far as I can tell, they are no longer in production, which would mean that the only way to get one would be to buy it from a current owner. And I have to think that most owners aren't about to let these go. They seem to be Holy Grails.

    If they are available, how would you experts recommend that a collector go about obtaining one? :confused
     
  32. Darth Phaeton

    Darth Phaeton Well-Known Member

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    IT IS THAT SIMPLE, if people just would let it be that simple, and not get to the state of panic, that they might loose, their self imagined god like status.

    Come on everybody, say after me. THIS IS A HOBBY, AND NOT AN NATIONAL SECRET, I WON'T LOOSE MY LIFE, BY SHARING. :)

    Dan.
     
  33. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    ....as Jez had stated, many makers of the fan built lids have used the 20C as the faceplate.....although many have not admitted so. Either way, to me the 20 C looks spot on to the screen used....which is why it's used so often. The dome on the other hand has way too much dome flare IMHO, which is why other dome types are used in conjunction with the 20C face.

    I believe that many Vader lids that you see for sale use the 20C as a base, so finding one may be easier than you think....
     
  34. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    I beg to differ. The close-up shot of Vader's helmet (as he's stepping on Ben's empty cloak) is most definitely a thinner neck.

    Chris

     
  35. SG

    SG New Member

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    I've seen all and owned few of so-called fan made ANH Vader helmets and none of them, except DJ one off, look as if "it stepped right off of the screen".

    Some are close but none is perfect , just my opinion.

    K.
     
  36. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    So you're saying that the width of the GH face mask and chest armour neck opening is too wide?
     
  37. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Yeah - as KevVader said. And just to clarify my earlier post...

    IMO Darth Jones' helmet is the most accurate helmet produced, but thus far is a one-off only.

    As far as the "20th Century" face is concerned, it was supposedly an ESB helmet although has what clearly appears to be ANH connections on it, hence it was used by.....

    1) JB on his "special" ANH Helmet (made after the mark 2 which also sported the same GH recast dome). I dont know how many he made but it wasnt the one I had (a mk2)

    2) The VM2 was also a 20thC face along with what imo was a recast GH Dome

    3) And finally SPFX used the 20thC face along with a recast GH dome - although I think he said he's copied an original helmet from Timbuktu or somewhere :lol

    I'm not passing judgements on these helmets just saying where I believe they derived.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  38. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    No, I'm saying that a thinner neck version of the facemask existed because it can be seen in the movie.
    The fatter neck version of the facemask can be seen in the Death Star conference room scenes and others.
    In other words, it appears that a thin and fat neck version existed. Maybe they made a thinner, tighter fitting version for Dave Prowse to use in the duel?

    Chris

     
  39. paulcarson

    paulcarson Well-Known Member

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    [attachmentid=6552][attachmentid=6552]
    thin neck.
     
  40. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Jez,

    A slight correction to item 2) in your list.
    The dome on the VM2 was actually a reworked version of what was essentially a Fyberdyne dome. GH used to own the dome which VM used, but sold it to Sporak when what is now termed the "GH" dome came along.

    Chris

     
  41. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Hmmm.....well it doesn't look that thin to me.
    [​IMG]
    But then we could all be fooled by differing camera angles.
     
  42. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Maybe you should get a screen grab looking from the front if you want to point out whether this is fat or thin neck?

    Chris

     
  43. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Looks pretty thin to me...

    [​IMG]
     
  44. paulcarson

    paulcarson Well-Known Member

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    Yep, looks thin
     
  45. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    I am sorry you see it that way, Dan. I have always respected your knowledge of Vader, and your ANH Vader was an inspiration for me to get my own completed. When I joined the hobby, people like BingoBongo and GH were there to provide me with feedback and information and were both very helpful. I've taken that information and try to help others with it if I can. Then I began to see how some people took advantage of the knowledge they were given and used that knowledge to put down the very people that helped them originally so they could promote their own new products. Because of a few bad apples here that have cashed in on the good will of others, what is the point of sharing information? Certainly not in the spirit of the hobby as has been demonstrated time and again. The interests of those individuals may have helped many to obtain Vader helmets, but for those few others who are _truely_ interested in screen accuracy, it has done more harm than good.

    In the past I've said what I think about the screen accuracy of the GH, JB, VM, SPFX and Gino Vader helmets, for better or worse. Granted what I said most often questioned the authenticity of the helmets, but since I am a scientist, I won't state something on a whim or based on conjecture. This is a hobby and we should all be friends, but there are those here who do not act like friends or even hobbyists.

    sincerely,

    Thomas

    PS. BTW, when you look down on the mask, the neck will always look narrower, whereas when you look straight on or up at it, the neck will always look wider. It's a matter of perspective.
     
  46. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Cking, the picture below is of the same helmet you have posted above. So it is all about the angle you look at the helmet.

    [​IMG]
     
  47. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    I agree that angles make a lot of difference.
    However, I'm still pretty sure that the helmet appears fatter or thinner in certain scenes.

    I believe that only a couple of helmets were used throughout production, but that's just based on observation and comments from Brian Muir and John Mollo.

    Chris
     
  48. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    _Very_ nice screencap, RKW. I've seen that image a million times but the detail in that one really comes through nicely. There should be a Vader helmet screencap contest as a new thread sometime ;).

    I think there was only one faceplate used ;)...ya I know funny coming from me as I originally thought there were as many as four LOL.

    :cheers,

    Thomas
     
  49. Lord Abaddon

    Lord Abaddon Sr Member

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    That pic to me is the definitive Vader helmet. It just looks rough, powerful, and fits Anakin's willingness to be in the front of battle. It's not a beauticians helmet (yes I like the others...but this one is just *IT*).
     
  50. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    An idea put forward to me by Phil is that the differing widths might be put down to how tight the helmet straps were.

    I dunno......I just know that I wouldn't want to put any force on my helmet for fear of cracking.
     

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